eightbit Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/9/2020 at 11:02 AM, carlsson said: In WinVICE you use Alt + J to swap joystick ports. If you have a USB keyboard attached to THEC64, can you use the same key combo or are hotkeys disabled in order to not confuse new users? Anyway, it'd be a one time configuration to rename image files as you see required. If there is a curated set of games known to be working, I would suppose those already are labeled properly as well? I'll have to try that. I doubt the hotkeys are enabled however. The real benefit of this system is that the software is "simple". I know a few people who have been overwhelmed with Vice. You and I know what we are doing as we understand how the options relate to the real hardware (same with WinUAE) but the average user who has no idea is clueless. And sometimes, even for me, I just want to "run stuff" without complicated configuration options. That said, the custom interface on the C64 mini (and C64 full) is superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I wonder if "rooting" the machine will allow you to enable hot-keys via a conf file. Obviously would not be a general-user scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, OLD CS1 said: I wonder if "rooting" the machine will allow you to enable hot-keys via a conf file. Obviously would not be a general-user scenario. I am not even sure that is needed...actually it may hurt the item in a way. Right now (from what I have seen in various reviews) it is closer to a real C64 than it is to an emulator. Its simple like a real C64. Turn it on, go to basic. Mount ("insert") a disk and you can load stuff. You can mount disks and format them. You can save to them in basic. Simple stuff that is acting like a real C64 and a floppy disk drive...except in this case the floppy disk drive is emulated through a modern USB and disk images. I say keep it simple...just like this. If joystick port swapping is really necessary (I think only like 12 games use port 1 IIRC...could be wrong) then a simple option in the disk mount area to check off "swap joysticks" would do the trick. I just personally think adding too much (hot keys, other emulator options) will take away from the nice simplistic experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 My big brother and me kept a list of which C64 games we had (both originals and copies), which publisher, which cassette or disk it was located on and which joystick ports were used. Not all fields were filled in for each entry, but out of about 680 entries in the list, I count to 53 which are specified to use port 1 only, not counting two player games using both. Some of that info may not be correct, but perhaps at least 5% of all games preferred port 1 despite it technically conflicts with the keyboard and all the other jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loafer Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Carlsson: I don’t suppose you still have that list? Would come in handy to change all those games now to _j1 and then not worry about them google helps for some of the more popular games but it seems I keep coming across a new one every now and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Oh, it is a handwritten notebook, some 25-30 double sided pages. Sure I could scan it or at least by hand write down which games we noted as J1 and use that to verify. Still 680 out of 12000+ (taking the GB64 number and halving it to remove duplicates) would equal about 5% of the total library, give or take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) A little Monday "VIC'in around" on The C64 full size Radar Rats are pretty big on a 55inch display I must say...lol! Edited January 28, 2020 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Anyone heard anything as to the US release date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Good question. I know they have released in the US to the backers, because I received mine over the weekend and have been playing around with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Gray Defender said: Good question. I know they have released in the US to the backers, because I received mine over the weekend and have been playing around with it. Did you receive a US version? Or is it the Europe version (Europe packaging)? I am just curious to see if the packaging will differ for USA sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Not sure now that you ask. I assumed that since I am in the US they would sent the US version, but I could be wrong about that. How can I confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Does the box look like the one we all have seen (C64 "MicroComputer")? That box would certainly be nostalgic for Europe, but in the USA we are nostalgic for this one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 It is quite possible they will just use the same packaging across regions, but I was just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This is what I got (bot at top of image) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 As far as I know, any Full-Size units sent to North America are sent from overseas- there isn't an NA distributor yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Okay so European version shipped to US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Yep, the US version (even if the box art is the same) will certainly not have a PEGI rating...it will have an ESRB rating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Yes, interesting. After waiting all this time, I thought for sure they would have sent out the US version to US backers, especially with all of the people in Europe receiving their units months ago, but I was wrong in this case. Thanks,.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) Even still, it is a nice thing to have that is not too easy for folks in the USA to obtain...at least at MSRP price. I lucked out and Amazon.co.uk processed my order. They caught on since so they won't do that again Even though the mini was released here in the states and they proclaim The C64 Full is coming to the USA....I have my doubts until I actually see it here at least in substantial numbers. Not that I don't think they have the intention to release it, but I just have to wonder what kind of sales they will get here in the USA. The mini price dropped like crazy and now I can get them for around the $20-$30 range shipped. I love the mini too, but that is not a good sign for future TheC64 ventures in the states. I am starting to think they overshot production with the mini here in the USA (as they are always in stock, everywhere and for rock bottom prices) and they may be a bit more cautious with this larger and more expensive model. I just have to wonder just how many they will manufacture and expect to sell to the US consumers. I know I will buy a US version as well (because I do support what they are doing, love the C64 and am a collector), but how many average people will buy this? You'll have the Moms and Dads (like me) who grew up with it and want to relive those good old days, show it to their kids, etc. But that is a pretty specific age group. I was 8 when I received my first C64 for example. I grew up with this machine being the primary computer I used at home and in school, but I work around hundreds of people that have no idea what this thing is at all. My kids don't care about any of it honestly (15 and 10)....my wife vaguely remembers seeing it (she was only 3 at the time) but never used one and has no nostalgic feeling for it. So, that leaves me and people like me. That may be a lot in the forums, but a very small fraction out of all of the USA. I wouldn't put it past that they trickle this thing out at 1K units at a time when it does hit. Edited January 28, 2020 by eightbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddL Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I believe I read that for the full size version they are not make regional versions--the same version will be used in all regions. The outlet adapter would be different though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) After a few days of testing this I can at least give people my initial thoughts: 1. The keyboard is acceptable. It is "lighter" if not for a better word. It is as if you took a C64 keyboard and sort of made it more responsive in terms of not really having to push the keys down as much to register, and you do not nearly have to push as hard. But, that said, the real C64 keyboard is a lot better in my opinion. This one feels hollow and cheaper. But, it does work well and typing on it is easy. It's not bad at all. But if you are used to typing away on a real C64 you will definitely find that it is not the same....although it "looks" the same. 2. The case is OK. It looks the part, but the plastic is certainly cheaper than the original and you can feel it. But again, it is a good attempt and looks the part. 3. The USB ports are TIGHT. Initially I was a bit worried pushing in a USB stick and my USB extension cables. I assume with use they will loosen up, but they are damn tight. 4. The controller is clicky and loud, but I think its great. After using it for a while I can feel that good ol' arthritis kicking in though 5. Getting games working on this is not as simple as I had hoped. Lots of renaming if you want stuff to run right. For example, I wanted to play a PAL demo and it would not launch until I added "_ad" to the filename (accurate disk emulation). Not that bad and understandable. Some disks need accurate (and slow) loading to work. For some VIC games that needed all memory banks and the machine needs to be told this is a VIC title I had to add "_mvb0b1b2b3b5" to the filename. "MV" for "model vic" and all banks of RAM available. Some other games will not work as some need to be "soft reset" after the code is running and there is only a hard reset function. Be prepared to have the manual in front of you with the prefix legend and test/rename rinse/repeat. You just don't know a game won't work until you try, and then you have to fart around with renaming the file. And then it works, unless you can't figure out why it randomly freezes like in the case of "Neutron" (see #6) "CJM" files are also supported, which are basically config files in which you can assign these options to one (or an entire directory) of disk images if you wanted to. This would be neat if you get all of the games that used joystick port 1 in one folder and then created one CJM file to tell the machine to assign all in the directory to port 2. There's information about this in the manual, but unless you are just giving a ton of games a mass config (which other than the joystick swap you probably would not) I don't see it as useful as it sounds. Still, I will have to investigate that deeper soon. You can also use this online CJM tool to create those files if you wish, although not everything is implemented at the moment: https://www.thec64minizone.com/cjm-configuration-file-tool/ 6. It freezes sometimes for some games. I have been playing the excellent "Neutron" and "Santron" (Christmas version) of the 2019 shooter. It works, but every now and then it freezes for 5-10 seconds for no reason. Be it in game or on the title screen. And I mean really freezes the whole machine. Not even the built in menu functions work. Then after 5-10 seconds it comes back. This does not happen on any of the built in games and more testing is obviously needed to see if this is a trend, but on both of these particular games it randomly happens. It could be minutes into the game or longer. I realize it is going to be hard to find testers for this, but if anyone else here with a TheC64 full can recreate this behavior I can try to bring it to the devs (if its not just my unit). Or maybe this happens on a real C64 too? I just thought of that and will have to tests it there as well. But I see no reports of this type of issue on real hardware. Here are the links to this game (which everyone who loves fast shooters and the C64 should get now anyway!): https://sarahjaneavory.itch.io/santron https://sarahjaneavory.itch.io/neutron Just some initial thoughts. Overall nice experience especially for a living room C64 gaming or demo session without having drunk friends try to touch my beloved real hardware that is connected in my private vintage computer area...lol! It certainly needs firmware updates. And in my opinion it needs some menu options to enable RAM banks for the Vic, swap controller ports, turn on/off accurate disk emulation and so on. Renaming everything is madness.....and I thought it would be a walk in the park! Edited January 29, 2020 by eightbit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, ToddL said: I believe I read that for the full size version they are not make regional versions--the same version will be used in all regions. The outlet adapter would be different though. The box came with US/Europe adapters that click or snap into the USB power thingy... Sorry I don't know what they are called... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 27 minutes ago, eightbit said: 6. It freezes sometimes for some games. I have been playing the excellent "Neutron" and "Santron" (Christmas version) of the 2019 shooter. It works, but every now and then it freezes for 5-10 seconds for no reason. Be it in game or on the title screen. And I mean really freezes the whole machine. Not even the built in menu functions work. Then after 5-10 seconds it comes back. This does not happen on any of the built in games and more testing is obviously needed to see if this is a trend, but on both of these particular games it randomly happens. It could be minutes into the game or longer. I realize it is going to be hard to find testers for this, but if anyone else here with a TheC64 full can recreate this behavior I can try to bring it to the devs (if its not just my unit). Or maybe this happens on a real C64 too? I just thought of that and will have to tests it there as well. But I see no reports of this type of issue on real hardware. Here are the links to this game (which everyone who loves fast shooters and the C64 should get now anyway!): https://sarahjaneavory.itch.io/santron https://sarahjaneavory.itch.io/neutron Thanks for your review. I agree with your assessment of the keyboard. Feels a little bit cheap as compared to the breadbox C64. The "micro switch" joystick is clicky (which I like) and for me not as responsive on games that require fast reflexes/corning. As far as having to rename ROMs for compatibility, I agree it is tedious but at least there is a way to make those configurations work. Hopefully they will add that kind of support directly in the menus someday. I did have it freeze on me one time during my testing. It also corrupted a save state when it happened. It was when I exited the classic mode back to the menus. Nothing would respond, had to unplug. This prompted me to download the latest firmware. So far so good after that, though I have not tried the games you mentioned. I will test it more when time permits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) I appreciate that. If you have the chance to try one of the shooters I linked let me know. Give it a good go and see if you get that freeze. It would be a good thing to see if it can be reproduced...and then I can email the devs and explain this issue is not only on one machine. I have updated the firmware as well to the latest. I will continue to test games, but it is never a good sign to run into a problem on literally the first game(s) I had tested Edited January 29, 2020 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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