Tengen Gauntlet on the Atari 7800 Pro System

[Lynxpro]

We can always build the game with just 2 players. According to what I read, the RIOT chip supports output through the ports, so it should be able to send a signal to Multijoy 8. What the Multijoy 8 needs is a way to know which joystick the program needs to access. The Atari 8-bit has porta and portb control through its PIA chip. We really need a response from someone familiar with 2600/7800 programming and information on the chips registers.

 

This would be one hell of a noble effort. Probably just use one Multi-Joy on Port 1 that way an AtariVox could potentially still be used on Port 2.

 

It would be interesting to see Dark Chambers hacked to support more than 2 players and then skinned - kinda like how it's been done to the 2600 version - to play and appear like Gauntlet. Convert the levels from the NES version of Gauntlet or the 8-bit computer versions, including the Deeper Dungeons expansion disks...

 

For the record, arcade Gauntlet's original main programmer Ed Logg programed the NESified version of the game for the NES. Back when Atari Inc was still together, he was one of the few who championed the deal with Nintendo for the Famicom hardware over GCC's rival 7800.

[peteym5]

I think Multijoy-8 needs both joystick ports, Port 1 is the pass through from the selected joystick. Port 2 is put in output mode to send the signal to the device to selected which joystick to read. At least what I gathered from reading up on all the documents I could find on it. I theory, the RIOT chip should be able to set the ports to output mode. I made a game for the 8-bit called Surround'Em, based on Surround, but has options to play a Slither game, Space Web Rescue, and Dodge Survival game. It is not currently on my list of games to be ported to the 7800 because to requires a bitmap (Atari 8-bit graphics 7 screen) to work. Could do something similar with a blocky character set mode screen, but won't look much better than the 2600 surround.

[Greg2600]

In fairness to Tengen, the NES Four Score was released TWO years after Gauntlet was!

[Lynxpro]

In fairness to Tengen, the NES Four Score was released TWO years after Gauntlet was!

 

Their Gauntlet II - which was released by another company since Tengen wasn't an official licensee anymore nor were they still producing their unofficial carts by that point - supported the NES Four Score... I don't think the sequel had the RPG "Quest Mode" in it which is basically the gameplay of the NES version of the original. The Sega Genesis/MegaDrive version of Gauntlet, called Gauntlet IV, has both the arcade and "Quest Mode". Man, I wish they would've ported that sucker to the Jaguar back in the day...

[Tidus79001]

Still want this game.  The Tengen Gauntlet on the NES was phenomenal for bring the feel, look, and sound of the arcade home.  Could the Atari 7800 handle this as well as the NES did graphics and game play wise (now sound I know would need a Yahma 2151 or at minimum a Pokey chip to compete with what the NES had)?

[Shawn]

22 hours ago, Tidus79001 said:

Still want this game.  The Tengen Gauntlet on the NES was phenomenal for bring the feel, look, and sound of the arcade home.  Could the Atari 7800 handle this as well as the NES did graphics and game play wise (now sound I know would need a Yahma 2151 or at minimum a Pokey chip to compete with what the NES had)?

 

Well then you better start programming.

[Tidus79001]

Just wanted to hear from people who have programmed for the Atari 7800 as to their opinion if the system would be as capable of handling the game as well as did the NES.  The closest thing we have is Dark Chamber's and the is the poor mans version of Gauntlet by far.  Also the Sega Master system did version that is very faithful to arcade.  Just curious how Atari's own 7800 could have fared given proper resources for a Gauntlet title.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Tidus79001

[electronicsibley]

On 11/6/2018 at 2:44 PM, Tidus79001 said:

Only 2 players instead of 4

Maybe something the Quadtari could handle?

[+Gemintronic]

The NES could "cheat" and get tons of enemies on-screen by making them part of the background tiles.  Plus, the NES had hardware cheats in the MMC chips on the cart for scrolling.

 

The 7800 would have to do 4 ways scrolling in software.  Also, I'm not sure how many objects it can handle at a time.  Probably more than a few.. but, more than NES cheaty Gauntlet?

 

Would be interesting.

[Synthpopalooza]

Sound:

 

Quote

Main CPU : MC68010L8 @ 14.31818 MHz
Sound CPU : M6502 @ 1.789772 MHz
Sound Chip : YM2151 @ 3.579545 MHz, Pokey @ 1.789772 MHz, TMS5220 @ 650.826 KHz
RES : 336x240
Protection Chip : Slapstic 137412-1** F.A.Q.

So we can do music using Yamaha,  game sounds using POKEY, and have 100% arcade accuracy in that respect.   The sound CPU is a 6502.  Any way to rip the sound/music data from the arcade ROM?

[Tidus79001]

23 hours ago, electronicsibley said:

Maybe something the Quadtari could handle?

Tengen NES version version is only 2 player as opposed to 4 unlike the later Gauntlet II version published on the NES by Mindscape.  Mayve a 7899 QuadTari can be released to handle 4 player since this support only1 button joysticks since it is intend as 2600 product and isn't compatible with 7800 multi button controllers.  Personally I like the Tengen version the best.  I do wonder if the 7800 XM (if released) could produce a version that could compete on par with NES Tengen version, or even the Mindscape version.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Tidus79001

[Synthpopalooza]

Or code it for the Dragonfly.  Digital only of course.

[Lynxpro]

Why even question it? Look at Rikki & Vikki. The 7800 could've easily done Gauntlet. Sure, it wouldn't have been pretty like the arcade original or the Atari ST/Amiga versions but it wouldn't have been a flickering mess either since the MARIA handles sprites like a mad man. 

 

Rule of thumb: if the NES can do it graphically, so can the 7800. Just not as easily in terms of platformers. More colors and more onscreen sprites. Pitting the 7800 up against the Sega Master System in a mock title comparison is a much better thought exercise.

[Lynxpro]

On 11/6/2018 at 8:48 AM, John Stamos Mullet said:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/175100-gauntlet/

 

Citing The Liar'ed? Man, that's like if wegotthiscovereddotcom was a living person, but with more alleged mental illness.

[desiv]

16 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

Why even question it? Look at Rikki & Vikki. 

To be fair, Rikki & Vikki uses some custom hardware...

I am thinking the question is more, could the 7800 have done Gauntlet back in the day with realistic cart options available at the time.

Looking at Dark Chambers, I would think it is likely it could..

[dmckean]

3 hours ago, desiv said:

To be fair, Rikki & Vikki uses some custom hardware...

I am thinking the question is more, could the 7800 have done Gauntlet back in the day with realistic cart options available at the time.

Looking at Dark Chambers, I would think it is likely it could..

 

Rikki and Vikki used custom hardware for music only.

 

And I'm not sure if could it have been done back in the day is really that interesting of a question. Of course it could have. What's more interesting is what we could do now, the audio could probably be arcade perfect, it's just a matter of how much of the original arcade graphics could you get on screen.

[Synthpopalooza]

https://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/gauntlet-arcade

 

.vgz format. 

 

Also:

 

https://www.deflemask.com/forum/general/noob-question-editload-vgz-megadrive-tracks/

 

So ... strip out the instrument data, convert the .vgz to midi, load it all into DefleMask, and there you go.  I'll have a try of it ...

[newtmonkey]

@Synthpopalooza

Thanks for posting that, would love to hear your attempt if you do get around to it.

Edited April 9, 2021 by newtmonkey

[desiv]

20 hours ago, dmckean said:

 

Rikki and Vikki used custom hardware for music only.

 

And I'm not sure if could it have been done back in the day is really that interesting of a question. Of course it could have. What's more interesting is what we could do now, the audio could probably be arcade perfect, it's just a matter of how much of the original arcade graphics could you get on screen.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sound/BUP.

 

As for the "could it have been done" being an interesting question, I suppose that all depends who is asking it.  Maybe that is just me, and that is fine.  ?

BUP audio isn't something that I think of as "could have been done" although technically I suppose it could have been (not that familiar with the tech behind the BUP). 

 

There is also the 512k RAM, which wasn't common, but I consider that doable at the time, just crazy expensive.

 

But you are right, if we are just talking about what could be done today with max RAM and things like BUP, then yeah, it should be doable...

I actually like Pokey and Yamaha sound, so I think it could be done pretty well with either/both of those.

 

Either way, I think we agree the answer is yes.

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by desiv

[dmckean]

39 minutes ago, desiv said:

 

But you are right, if we are just talking about what could be done today with max RAM and things like BUP, then yeah, it should be doable...

I actually like Pokey and Yamaha sound, so I think it could be done pretty well with either/both of those.

 

Either way, I think we agree the answer is yes.

 

I was referring to what could be done with pokey and Yamaha since that is what the original arcade board used for sound. (see post #35)

[desiv]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:58 AM, dmckean said:

I was referring to what could be done with pokey and Yamaha since that is what the original arcade board used for sound. (see post #35)

So we agree. ?

[+Pat Brady]

On 4/8/2021 at 4:00 PM, dmckean said:

Rikki and Vikki used custom hardware for music only.

 

I believe R&V used a custom mapper in addition to its sound chip.

 

I'm not sure what R&V has to do with Gauntlet anyway. Very different games with very different demands.

[Cebus Capucinis]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:26 PM, Lynxpro said:

 

Citing The Liar'ed? Man, that's like if wegotthiscovereddotcom was a living person, but with more alleged mental illness.

I quite literally almost fell out of my chair laughing.

[Lynxpro]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:58 AM, dmckean said:

I was referring to what could be done with pokey and Yamaha since that is what the original arcade board used for sound. (see post #35)

 

It's a bit more than that. I can't remember if it was a single, Dual, or Quad POKEY in the Gauntlet arcade games. They also had the YM2151 and the TI Speech Synthesis Chip but they also had a 6502 dedicated to managing the audio chips and the coin slot while the 68010 was the main CPU. 

[Lynxpro]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:18 AM, desiv said:

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sound/BUP.

 

As for the "could it have been done" being an interesting question, I suppose that all depends who is asking it.  Maybe that is just me, and that is fine.  ?

BUP audio isn't something that I think of as "could have been done" although technically I suppose it could have been (not that familiar with the tech behind the BUP). 

 

There is also the 512k RAM, which wasn't common, but I consider that doable at the time, just crazy expensive.

 

But you are right, if we are just talking about what could be done today with max RAM and things like BUP, then yeah, it should be doable...

I actually like Pokey and Yamaha sound, so I think it could be done pretty well with either/both of those.

 

Either way, I think we agree the answer is yes.

 

 

As for the 512K RAM comment, it wasn't common - at all - on the 7800 but you had Nintendo cramming RAM and large capacity ROMs on their NES carts of the same era. I don't know if the SMS carts had any RAM in them but some of their titles certainly did have 512K ROMs.