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Pole Position modest sprite hack !

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I think it entirely possible the cars could be augmented with playfield graphics but it would mean an extensive rewrite and might mean 128K ROM and 48K Ram needed to run it.

 

The thing is, the game isn't really going to be a lot better for it. IMO the best pseudo-3D driving game by far was Vroom on the Amiga and the elevation change of the track is a big contributor to that.

Such a game on the A8, probably doable but it'd have to be a ground up development.

Complete rewrite for Pole Position, yes. But it is possible and has already been proven on the A8 with the BBC port of E-type. "high" res cars and road with elevation changes and a decent FPS too. Obviously it was done (the cars) with software sprites. The only thing about E-type is there are no side perspective views to the car(s).Also A8 E-type has a smaller game window in which it runs too (than Pole Position).

Edited by Gunstar
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Even the arcade version has a fairly inconspicuous wing (and I think F1 at the time was similar - from memory the wing size peaked around the time things like skirts and turbos were being banned). Possibly the topmost horizontal black stripe on the C64 is supposed to be the wing.

The problem with having a too conspicuous wing is that it could obscure other detail in front of it, though given the chunky horizontal pixel size of both versions the detail is a rough approximation anyway.

 

..new model with wing !

I'm trying to settle to one design and then try to turn it :-o

post-65-0-61917700-1542120622.jpg

Edited by TIX
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..new model with wing !

I'm trying to settle to one design and then try to turn it :-o

Humm... I like it!...

;-)

:thumbsup:

Edited by José Pereira
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I like it too, already a huge improvement over the original! I knew something could be done just by changing colors of what was already there. Now maybe try your hand at the side perspective views? Obviously the colors need to be changed to match at least...

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I wish we could do SOMETHING about the cars ;(

 

Am I the only one here who actually likes the Atari release? I always thought they did a respectable home port, given the limitations of the A8 hardware. The gameplay is very fluid and the 8 (wide!) bits wide cars always looked pretty cool to me, knowing the 8-bit couldn't reproduce the arcade experience.

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It was good when it came out. But we are spoiled now - and we have the tools, we have the technology. Let's build it better.

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Am I the only one here who actually likes the Atari release? I always thought they did a respectable home port, given the limitations of the A8 hardware. The gameplay is very fluid and the 8 (wide!) bits wide cars always looked pretty cool to me, knowing the 8-bit couldn't reproduce the arcade experience.

I was impressed with the game play and speed and excellent controls back then, but I always felt the cars and explosion and signs could be done better, but back then I didn't realize how they were doing those sprites and that they were quadruple-width 8-pixel-wide hardware-stretch-effect player/missile, etc. or as much about the limitations of the player/missile graphics. I always thought they were just poorly done GTIA mode sprites overlaid on the higher-res Antic road and background.

 

I actually respect it for what it is more, now than ever, but I knew the look of it could be better just from using colors better. just like the explosion looks better, under the same limitations, but because someone took the time to do more than random-looking-pixel explosions.

 

It just could have been better looking even back then, had there been a better artist on hand even given the same limitations, as I think Tix's explosion and car above prove. maybe it's a case of the pixel artist back then trying to do too much with too little, a case of trying to think outside the box when they actually needed to figure out the best way with the limited space inside the box.

Edited by Gunstar
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I drew the frames with squinting eyes and the animation on a loop :P major headache !!

I'm not to happy with the half turn frame but I don't have much option there..

So how about this ?

 

oh the frames are doubled to slow down the animation.. never mind that.

post-65-0-54438200-1542181306_thumb.jpg

Edited by TIX
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Again, I think it looks better than the original, which is saying something given the blocky limitations.Seeing it in motion would help, and does it still have the blinking pixels on top of the tires simulating tire motion? And can more be done with that? I always felt if it had two pixel lines blinking consecutively instead of just one that it might look better, especially if the two lines could be slightly different shades increasing the highlighting/shadow effect. But I don't know if you have any control over that the same way you do changing the car colors.

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I think I nailed the middle frame :-D

Yes the blinking highlight on the tyres will be there,

there is a 2 frame animation going on so maybe more is possible ?!?!? I don't know yet..

 

Thanks Gunstar for the encouragement .. but I'm afraid (as I said earlier) I don't know the first thing about color hacking.. we need help from a more experienced hacker !

post-65-0-49828700-1542189096_thumb.jpg

Edited by TIX
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YES! Besides the tire highlights I mentioned earlier, the only other thing needed to make the game perfect (within it's limitations} would be more detailed road signs. I'm assuming it can only be a one color sprite, but maybe leave some pixels out so it has some detail via seeing the background graphics through it. I don't know if it's just one player/missile that changes color and road side, or what, I don't suppose it would be possible to make a an arrow shape on the signs point the direction of the next turn, that's probably not possible, aye? but even if it has to be a uniform shape like a primitive Atari Fuji? Like what they did in the 7800 version of Pole Position 2? Or just some kind of pattern to make the signs more detailed.

 

Are the A.I. cars a completely separate sprite(s)? Can they be changed like the main car?

 

As to your comment about not knowing color hacking, are you speaking specifically of the tire highlights? Because otherwise I don't understand, I thought what you did with the explosion and the car so far was color and pixel hacking within the 8x(16?) player sprite "proportional box" limitation the program seems to use... :?

Edited by Gunstar
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Yes I'm very pleased with the new frames !! as for your questions:

  • i would love to edit the road signs but I can't find them.. someone said that they are missile sprites or something, but I don't know what I'm looking for..
  • yes the A.I. cars are separate sprites but I leave them alone for now.. will see
  • until now, everything I have done is pure pixel hacking.. no colors have been harmed :P

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  • until now, everything I have done is pure pixel hacking.. no colors have been harmed :P

 

So you are saying the explosion and the car are using the same original colors? I don't see any more greens in your new explosion that were mixed in the original pixel mess, and the car frames above sure look red and gray and black to me, which is different from the original colors of the car. Now I'm even more confused as to what you mean by color hacking if changing colors isn't it! :? :? :?

Edited by Gunstar

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Each car is made of quadruple width 2Players using PMGs Multicolour mode in this way:

-> Tires is one Player in luminance 0;

-> Other colour is the other Player;

When these two overlap creates the Oring 3rd colour.

 

The tires aren't black but indeed one colour from 1->F that Oring gives a 3rd colour.

They seem black but they aren't black, they're some colours of (1->F) in luminance 0 that better can 'fool' people eyes on tv to seem a black that isn't/aren't ;).

:thumbsup:

Edited by José Pereira
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Each car is made of quadruple width 2Players using PMGs Multicolour mode in this way:

-> Tires is one Player in luminance 0;

-> Other colour is the other Player;

When these two overlap creates the Oring 3rd colour.

 

The tires aren't black but indeed one colour from 1->F that Oring gives a 3rd colour.

They seem black but they aren't black, they're some colours of (1->F) in luminance 0 that better can 'fool' people eyes on tv to seem a black that isn't/aren't ;).

:thumbsup:

For example:

-> Player on the tires is (90) darkest cyan;

-> Player in the back of the car is (2A) orange;

Then Oring the two gives the front of the car as a green (BA).

:)

Edited by José Pereira
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Each car is made of quadruple width 2Players using PMGs Multicolour mode in this way:

-> Tires is one Player in luminance 0;

-> Other colour is the other Player;

When these two overlap creates the Oring 3rd colour.

 

The tires aren't black but indeed one colour from 1->F that Oring gives a 3rd colour.

They seem black but they aren't black, they're some colours of (1->F) in luminance 0 that better can 'fool' people eyes on tv to seem a black that isn't/aren't ;).

:thumbsup:

I knew that about the black, I could always tell that the blacks were a dark green*, then I've noticed after you cross the finish line at the end of the race the dark green "black" becomes dark red "black." But I didn't know the rest, but that does explain the dark green "black" to me now and how the colors work.

 

*or I guess actually a dark Cyan as you pointed out.

 

Of course even if you hadn't told me, as soon as I saw the game on my screen I would have noticed the dark Cyan tires and realized there was some kind of color limitations to Trix's work.

Edited by Gunstar
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I would have to play to see wich or if all of the other colours 'pseudo blacks' are used in the different cars...

 

EDIT: I also don't remember now if is [tires]_Oring_[back of the cars] = [front of the cars] OR [tires]_Oring_[front of the cars] = [back of the cars].

Edited by José Pereira
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Yes I'm very pleased with the new frames !! as for your questions:

  • i would love to edit the road signs but I can't find them.. someone said that they are missile sprites or something, but I don't know what I'm looking for..
  • yes the A.I. cars are separate sprites but I leave them alone for now.. will see
  • until now, everything I have done is pure pixel hacking.. no colors have been harmed :P

 

Now that I understand what you are talking about, I'm perfectly happy with just the player car sprites and explosion sprites being upgraded in form, those were the main two problems with the graphics of the game and I think you have really improved them (or will have once the car sprite hacks are implemented), IMHO. :thumbsup: :grin:

Edited by Gunstar
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(…)

 

The tires aren't black but indeed one colour from 1->F that Oring gives a 3rd colour.

They seem black but they aren't black, they're some colours of (1->F) in luminance 0 that better can 'fool' people eyes on tv to seem a black that isn't/aren't ;).

:thumbsup:

 

Correct, they were never fully black, and if anyone saw them completely black, they either had f_ked'up color-rendition on the emulator, or their actual video-displays / processors did not render the input signal correctly, or where not calibrated properly.

 

Those tires were NEVER, EVER fully black, which I always found distracting, besides the deep sigh I got when came from the Arcade version (where I first learned about Pole Position) and then saw it implemented on Atari... I was like "what the hell happened with the cars?..."

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Are all 4 missiles used? If not, you can use some for billboard details.

 

..tell us more

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