Which 8-bit computer?

[JR>]

Nir was wrong about that. It happens.

[Quon]

If the video out has RGB capability, I wouldn't need S-Video out. And also, if I have that, can't the entire RF shield be removed if it's no longer going to be used, like I have done on the Master System II and the 2600? That would give more room still as well as lower power needs slightly... Or it there something inside the RF module that the RGB would requiere?

[_The Doctor__]

yes because we love to screw up ham radio operators and other folks air wave joy. keep the shielding for a multitude of reasons...it's the kind considerate thing to do.

 

these upgrades can be a mixed bag, I'll keep with best practices method, so I do the 64k upgrade and I find a way to keep as much shielding or another shielding scheme implemented as possible.

Edited November 15, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[Quon]

yes because we love to screw up ham radio operators and other folks air wave joy. keep the shielding for a multitude of reasons...it's the kind considerate thing to do.

 

these upgrades can be a mixed bag, I'll keep with best practices method, so I do the 64k upgrade and I find a way to keep as much shielding or another shielding scheme implemented as possible.

 

When I said remove the shielding entirely, I meant remove the entire RF module, as in the shielding and what's inside, as they are usually a a removable module... but I see from the video that you are referring to the metal plate that covers the entire circuit board, not the RF module... still, if the RF module isn't going to be used, removing it lowers power consumption and the socket hole can be used for an S-Video mod with an actual S-Video standard 4 pin socket... no?

 

The shielding itself I would just dremel out the piece that's in the way, like I did with the S-Video circuit on my 2600jr when I placed that in the place of the original RF module.

 

EDIT: OK, I think I just answered part of this when I put on the "Building a maxed out Atari 600XL (Part 1)" video... as there's no RF module in that one

Edited November 15, 2018 by Quon

[Quon]

 

It is a bit tight as mentioned, with the Antonia upgrade you'll need to leave the RF shield off.

 

Here is a good demo of it.

 

 

All PAL models a monitor port but you'll need to mod it for svideo. Later models don't support svideo, the original 800 does. If you can't do this yourself there's always the UAV.

 

 

OK, I found one thing interesting on this video... I noticed the monitor used is a 16:9 aspect ratio screen, but the image seems to look as it's supposed to, without the black side bars you usually get and without having a stretched look... is this a video mod, something unique to this program that is being used in the video or does the computer actually support 16:9 aspect ratio (something I highly doubt personally, but sometimes you find surprises).

 

I would use it on a 4:3 ratio display anyway, I find it keeps that retro look much better in general, but I was curious...

[Quon]

And screwing with HAM enthusiasts is a hobby in itself I practice every time I turn on one of my 150mW modded RC transmitters... not to mention it can mess with some people's WiFi hehehehe

But I am noticing that there are a lot of options for this computer, I never realised just how much has been made for it (what am I getting myself into? )!! I think for now, I'm going to concentrate on getting the computer, which I will probably take my time with that and not simply get the first one I find, and then maybe go on with the 64K upgrade, and then after see the different options... one step at a time.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Quon

[jowi]

I thought the 600XL didn't have monitor out, period. I didn't know the PAL versions had a monitor out!! Is it composite only or does it do RGB too?

The PAL versions have a monitor out with composite only. You can mod it easily to S-Video if you want.

[jowi]

OK, I found one thing interesting on this video... I noticed the monitor used is a 16:9 aspect ratio screen, but the image seems to look as it's supposed to, without the black side bars you usually get and without having a stretched look... is this a video mod

In the demo the XL also is equipped with the Sophia mod, which adds a DVI connector... depending on the hardcoded resolution you can get 16:9 (1600x900). The image produced is razorsharp... but it comes with some drawbacks. Not all TV's and monitors (i even think most tv's and monitors) will accept the signal that Sophia produces... there are some limitations due to the hardware which prevents Sophia to produce VESA standard signals, and a lot of tv's and monitors simply don't know what to do with it. My Pioneer Kuro TV can't cope with it, neither could my Acer monitor. I've bought a HP 2465 2nd hand that has no problem with it... i'm still looking for solutions to this. I think a good scaler (Lumagen, DVDO VP50 etc) might solve the issues, but... these are expensive machines... i am looking for cheap scalers/converters that might work. If i find something, i will post it.

 

So you have to be lucky with the Sophia board, i have 2 (1280x960 and a 1280x1024) that work on the HP monitor but nowhere else... but if it works, this is *the* videomod you want.

Edited November 15, 2018 by jowi

[+Nezgar]

I can also attest that antonia needs no ROM or RAM on the motherboard. Base 64K is provided by Antonia. Nir states that in the video in error.

[Quon]

The PAL versions have a monitor out with composite only. You can mod it easily to S-Video if you want.

 

No possibility of RGB though?

[_The Doctor__]

When something goes wrong (and it does) that 64k is nice to have....

[Quon]

When something goes wrong (and it does) that 64k is nice to have....

 

And I would imagine it's a very cheap mod to achieve really, so it kind of makes it not worth ignoring...

[jowi]

I recall seeing some rgb addon board somewhere; so i assume it can not be done in a simple manner like svideo. Search the forum

[Quon]

I recall seeing some rgb addon board somewhere; so i assume it can not be done in a simple manner like svideo. Search the forum

Sounds like the same issue with the 2600... S-Video is relatively simple to achieve, and RGB is a little more complicated, but achievable

[power]

 

Keep in mind that there are a number of useful kludges, such as Transkey II, that allow XEGS users to use PS/2 (or perhaps other) keyboards. I use one with mine, and it's a great improvement. I get that OP isn't necessarily going to want to mess around with obscure add-ons, but the XEGS shouldn't just be limited in thought to be "crappy keyboard" A8 model, especially as it's got lots of room in its case for mods.

 

I only use mine for games so it's perfect in that respect especially as the composite out is actually really good.

[shoestring]

I can also attest that antonia needs no ROM or RAM on the motherboard. Base 64K is provided by Antonia. Nir states that in the video in error.

It doesn’t need any of the support logic either. Everything is on the Antonia board.

[+slx]

It doesn’t need any of the support logic either. Everything is on the Antonia board.

 

Antonia is a very easy upgrade. If you want to pick nits, it

• needs a utility to switch between configurations (rather than having a boot menu like Ultimate1MB, although I have no idea whether that is a system limitation or could be added with newer firmware)
• has 65C816 which might not be compatible with a couple of games (because it doesn't support undocumented opcodes)

On the plus side, if you're into that kind of stuff, you get a 65C816 with 4MB linear memory.

[JR>]

Not to mention, plug and play, no soldering required and completely reversible in a socketed machine.

[pseudografx]

Sophia board rev. A by Simius, as seen elsewhere on this forum, provides RGB output. Rev. C has DVI.

[Faicuai]

As a word of caution (and experience):

 

BEFORE staring upgrades, you must to develop a strategy and a plan.

 

If you don't put some thought into it, and do not try looking beyond what X or Y or Z gadgets do on their very own (and, instead, think HOLISTICALLY), you will invariably end with a machine filled with a bunch of mostly non-cohesive upgrades that do not really leverage on each other... Like a family of gremlins loosely wired altogether, and looking like CRAP, by the way.

 

In this day an age, there are VERY few upgrades that really hit the mark on the above premise, and in the case of the XL-line, the Ultimate1MB / Side-2 are your ticket for a real bowling strike, with basically one shot. Here's why:

1. Combines host-provided and board-provided ram with its own 1MB memory space, + 512KBytes of user-serviceable firmware space.
2. Firmware space is mapped to hold a high-performance load of SDX DOS, and a collection of OS'es and Cartridge ROMS, as well as space for wip graphical OS.
3. Extensive low-level support (on-board, with POWERFUL and easy to use firmware to access virtually ALL of your system resources PRIOR to OS booting, including RAM configurations, memory-scheme emulations, instantaneous selection of Operating System version, Stereo Pokey, direct access to your HD for loading ROM images (8k), .EXE files or firing-up .ATR images.... All you need for this is a Joystick or key-arrows, nothing else.
4. Designed to be "extensible", by heavily relying on PBI support for Hard Drives, Carts, multiple-drive boot control, support of high-speed SIO INDEPENDENTLY of your OS, as long as PBI extensions are supported. You DO NOT need to bury obscure I/O or interfacing hacks or patches on your OS images. Instead, you can keep these clean, as they were originally designed.
5. Low-level integration and support of Sparta Dos X (SDX), the most powerful, useful and robust environment in existence for Atari 8bit computers. Want to flash your latest XL/XL rom image into your U1MB system? Want to MOUNT an .ATR image of Zaxxon located in your compact-flash SIDE storage, and AFTER it booted to SDX? NOT a problem, you can do all that and much more from SDX's prompt, in a breeze!
6. Highly-optimized low-level (and SDX drivers) for accessing SIDE-2 IDE storage (cartridge), with speed in excess of 100 Kbytes/sec, (compared to typical 3.5Kbytes/sec on floppy).
7. And much more....

And what HW is needed for the above? Just one small Ultimate1MB board (+minimal and fully-reversible wire-soldering), and a plug-and-play SIDE-2 cart, that goes on your cartridge port. That's about it. If you take some time for your install (and have some extra tools handy), you could also keep your RF SHIELDS in place, and assemble your computer back to basically its original form, without degutting it like most of the samples you see around. With this simple combination, you will have access to a broad range of functionality, and you may never need to touch the machine, again!

 

In short, whether you want to start light / casual or whether you want to extract the best you can from your tiny Atari, you will be covered with U1MB + SIDE/2, from almost any angle I can think of.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Faicuai

[Sugarland]

If space is a concern, emulation on PC is a great alternative especially for 'basic things.' No need for any upgrades, etc.. All free.

[shoestring]

 

No possibility of RGB though?

 

Svideo is good enough through a decent monitor like this PVM.

 

 

 

 

Just one small Ultimate1MB board (+minimal and fully-reversible wire-soldering), and a plug-and-play SIDE-2 cart, that goes on your cartridge port.

 

Not everyone knows how to solder so some will favour the Antonia board.

 

If you have more than one machine get both.

[youxia]

 

Svideo is good enough through a decent monitor like this PVM.

 

S-Video is good enough through any TV set.

[Marius]

 

400 keyboard = terrible

800 = great

early XL = great

late XL = poor

XE = v.poor

 

(IMHO)

 

Hmm your list is almost the same as my list, with some additions.

Most (if not all) 600XL keyboards (I'm in PAL-B land, perhaps that is different else in the world) are terrible. I absolutely HATE every type of 600XL keyboard, and I have really a lot of these. Most of the time I take an 800XL keyboard apart and mount it in the 600xl.

 

And another thing I feel different about, but that is a new insight, that some of the the mylar-based 800xl keyboards are much better than expected. They seem to last and are very strong, and it types very good eventually (once you get used to it). There is only 800XL keyboard I hate and that is the one with the bigger, cubic keys that rattles. You can push those keys really down a lot. Costs lost of energy to type on those.

 

And there is also some quality difference and typing experience between xe keyboards. There ARE xe keyboards that do type really fine, but those mylars seem to die the soonest. It's the keyboard with the springs under the keycaps. I really appreciate those keyboards. Another downside: it seems that these keyboards turn yellow the soonest.

 

Well, it is hard to decide. I agree about the 800 keyboards (or the 1200XL keyboards, with new and fully operational mylar of course).

[Marius]

Oh and when it comes to upgrades... My main atari 8bit is an 800XL (64KB) with external memory expansion (makes it an xe compatible 576K 800XL). The only modification I did was adding +5V to the PBI port. IIRC the 600XL does already have 5V on the PBI, but still would need a 64KB memory upgrade (internal).

 

The memory expansion is inside the Turbo Freezer, but there other external memory upgrades (like the brilliant SysCheck II).