Diskless Xbone in 2019

[cimerians]

I'm not a big fan of streaming 4K at least not yet. Overall haven't really cared about discs in a long time though.

 

I'm not thinking much of it, it's just one version of the console ex. Sony made a PS3 without a hard drive. If they go completely disc-less and 100% digital/online then that means those people who can't afford the internet (or the speeds) won't be buying it. So if console manufacturers don't care or want to cater to them, in other words it doesn't make sense in terms of $, then unfortunately that's going to be the way of the future regardless.

 

Oh well.

Edited November 18, 2018 by cimerians

[Atariboy]

I don't know how a PS3 would function without a HDD. Many retail games required installations and such.

 

I believe you're thinking of the Xbox 360. This launched with the choice of a cheaper model with a wired controller, composite AV cable, and no HDD that Microsoft labeled the core unit (Did it even come with a memory card?).

 

Then later on this was replaced with the Xbox 360 arcade unit, which gradually went through several configurations (256 mb memory pack, 256 mb internal memory, and later 512 mb internal memory). And lastly there was the budget model of the Xbox 360 S that upped the internal flash memory to 4 GB.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Atariboy

[Shawn]

 

 

Are pirate copies of downloaded games still possible on modern consoles? I haven't kept up. If so, bootleggers could end up being the unwitting archivers of future games.

 

Yes and Yes.

[cimerians]

I don't know how a PS3 would function without a HDD. Many retail games required installations and such.

 

I believe you're thinking of the Xbox 360. This launched with the choice of a cheaper model with a wired controller, composite AV cable, and no HDD that Microsoft labeled the core unit (Did it even come with a memory card?).

 

Then later on this was replaced with the Xbox 360 arcade unit, which gradually went through several configurations (256 mb memory pack, 256 mb internal memory, and later 512 mb internal memory). And lastly there was the budget model of the Xbox 360 S that upped the internal flash memory to 4 GB.

 

Nah, I got one from Gamestop for dirt cheap, stuck an SSD in it. The drive slot was empty, think it uses flash memory for the 12GB.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Computer-Entertainment-Playstation-System-3/dp/B00E369SDM

Edited November 18, 2018 by cimerians

[Atariboy]

I never knew that Sony released a version of the super slim with 12 GB of internal flash memory in lieu of a HDD.

 

Thanks for correcting my failed correction.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Atariboy

[SignGuy81]

I believe that many people mostly stream now days but also many people still have a bluray player for the occasion that they see a movie at the store cheap they want to buy or perhaps get some movies for christmas or what not so it still makes sense to have a bluray player for most people. I would rather have the bluray player in my Xbox for that than to have to have another box on my shelf to play movies when I can do it all from just one box, and I rarely ever use the disk drive but for just that occasion it is nice to be there but I mostly stream and download the games easier than popping a disk in everytime to play a different game. I wouldn't buy a console without the optical drive.

[spacecadet]

I stream but I buy 4K Blu-Rays for the quality. I don't think it's an either/or thing that you have to choose between. (Well, unless your console just doesn't have a disk drive.)

 

As for games, I've definitely given up optical media for PC games (still have an optical drive for older stuff, though), but I've said this in other threads: the dynamics of the PC market are just fundamentally different. The PC as a platform is just one long, continuous history dating back 35+ years and showing no signs of "ending". So I'm ok with having all my games in Steam on PC because Valve has no interest in ending support for the PC in a couple years and moving on to something else. That said, I recognize it's still a bit of a risk, but in the PC's case the risks are outweighed by the rewards.

 

On consoles, you can get into a situation where a system without any form of separate media is just a brick a few years after it's discontinued. It's actually in the console makers' interests to try to wean you off of it and get you on the new thing. So they'll remotely disable certain features or even potentially make your games unavailable to re-download. There's no ownership of the games you "bought", and I doubt anyone is going to be able to fire up an Xbox One Diskless in 20 years, log in to their account and re-download the library they own today. That's going to make your secondhand consoles worthless, it's going to mean if your original one breaks there's probably nothing you can do, and it's going to make it impossible for anyone who missed out on the system the first time around to discover it anew. And a lot of good games could be lost to history as a result.

 

So for me, the day consoles go diskless is probably the day I'm out. I'll just stick to PC gaming and retro consoles from then on.

[Austin]

Microsoft is putting their eggs in a variety of different baskets, as they have openly stated before. Having a version of the console without a disc drive makes sense from that point of view.

[power]

they don't even want to sell this, they just want the idea out there. their end game is streaming and no ownership of games.

 

not a future i'm keen for.

[Laner]

If the discless model was available at a significant discount over the disc-having model, I'd probably go that route. Nearly everything I play now is download-only, whether that be Game Pass, Gold, or buying a steeply-discounted digital download. I can count the number of physical games I've purchased this generation on two hands.

[Scotterpop]

My big problem with a discless system is that youre limited to buying games from only one retailer: Xbox marketplace. Anyone with a basic grasp of economics understands that competition keeps prices down. And having fewer options as a consumer is never a good thing. If I dont like the price of a game I want on the Xbox store I can simply check to see what my local GameStop or Target or Wal-Mart is offering. Choices! Believe me, youre gonna miss them when theyre gone.

[Flojomojo]

As if PlayStation Network and Nintendo eShop (not to mention Steam, GOG, app stores, etc) don't provide competition?

[Rick Dangerous]

Not anything i'll ever spend one red cent on.

[Master Phruby]

I understand the xbox one just uses the disc as a license key. Does the PS4 do this? Is the actual game on the PS4 disc?

[cybercylon]

I think the disc itself acts as a license key once the game has been installed, but there is a game on the disc.

[slab0meat]

I haven't bought a physical game in ages.

 

I use the Blu Ray player once in a awhile (also have a stand alone player).

 

A discless option doesn't bother me at all, and I'd consider it.

[Andromeda Stardust]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/330928/Report_Microsoft_plans_to_launch_a_discfree_Xbox_One_in_2019.php

 

I guess I've put a few movies from the library in mine, but I can live without the disk drive. All their games require activation and installation anyway, so the only thing you'd be giving up is the retail box.

 

end of an era. good luck pkaying your favorite games 20 years from now. preservationists will argue that physical media is why retrogaming is even still a thing. copyright terms are far too long to save our digital culture before much of it is lost to deletion or bit decay...

[cimerians]

Disc-less or not, the only problem that's always concerned me a small bit is I don't know exactly technically how the games are set up on the console digitally (or installed off of disc), what kind of internal checks it does, who's logged in, the date and time etc. On PS4 for example I've seen it happen to where their Network (PSN) goes down and I can't play my LOCAL games even though I'm logged into the console with my account. It's pretty rare and It doesn't happen with every game but I've seen it happen. Perhaps it's because the games contain multiplayer or network features. Also I remember when there was a date\month\year problem years ago on PS3 where you couldn't do anything.

Obviously it's a controlled environment, not exactly like Steam and with GoG it's the complete opposite, you download the games there for yourself and keep them.

That's why I think backwards compatibility is really important I've always thought so, yeah I've dismissed it now and then I admit but there's only so many consoles you can have hooked up before you run out of room.

Also, why I have to applaud Microsoft, they did an unbelievable job with backwards compatibility. It's awesome.

[RodLightning]

 

Disc-less or not, the only problem that's always concerned me a small bit is I don't know exactly technically how the games are set up on the console digitally (or installed off of disc), what kind of internal checks it does, who's logged in, the date and time etc. On PS4 for example I've seen it happen to where their Network (PSN) goes down and I can't play my LOCAL games even though I'm logged into the console with my account. It's pretty rare and It doesn't happen with every game but I've seen it happen. Perhaps it's because the games contain multiplayer or network features. Also I remember when there was a date\month\year problem years ago on PS3 where you couldn't do anything.

Obviously it's a controlled environment, not exactly like Steam and with GoG it's the complete opposite, you download the games there for yourself and keep them.

That's why I think backwards compatibility is really important I've always thought so, yeah I've dismissed it now and then I admit but there's only so many consoles you can have hooked up before you run out of room.

Also, why I have to applaud Microsoft, they did an unbelievable job with backwards compatibility. It's awesome.

 

 

This is a future problem that will plague owners when the consoles become "retro hardware" if they ever make it to that stage. It has me wondering if it will one day be possible to provide the network back end locally that they need for normal operation. An elaborate undertaking for sure, but not impossible after the genuine networks are retired from operation.

[Video]

I understand the xbox one just uses the disc as a license key. Does the PS4 do this? Is the actual game on the PS4 disc?

I play ps4 almost exclusively due to limited internet which prevents me from using Xbox. I can confirm that (so far) every game I have is on the disc. In fact, my ps4 hasn't actually even hooked to the internet in like 8 months.

[Austin]

I understand the xbox one just uses the disc as a license key.

It uses the disc as a license key after the game is installed, but data is certainly on the disc. What games come with the full set of data to play the game out of the box depends on the title. Tony Hawk 5 is an infamous example where there was barely anything on the disc itself and you were forced to download the majority of the game. This is likely the exception to the rule but I don't think anyone has done an in-depth study of this to see what games are playable out of the box and what games are not.

 

Many of the earlier Xbox One titles I picked up were fine out of the box, but in the last couple of years I've just been letting them download from the internet. Generally when you put a disc into the console for the first time, assuming you have an active internet connection it will ask you to update it when you start the install. It will then download much of it, if not all of it. For people like myself with a fast internet connection, it's significantly quicker to just let it download the game than install it from the disc itself (and you get whatever patches are available in the process).

[TheCoolDave]

I mean, I don't fault them for it at this point, but I'll never buy a diskless console. If there are enough people to buy one to make it profitable, then more power to them. They just won't get my money.

 

Agreed 100%... There is always the problem with digital games. If you watch.. there have been a LOT of games that have been "delisted" over the years from Xbox marketplace. If the game is digital only, that game could be lost forever. As the disc game will be able to be played.

 

If someone wants a cheap console and this is what they want, so be it but, there will ALWAYS be a disc based system. If the Xbox 2 comes out and it's no disc drive, it's going to be outrage just like what happened on the announcement of the Xbox one...

 

Personally, I don't mind a digital game time to time, just very main stream games like COD or GTA because they sell Millions of them and they will always be around but, the odd ball stuff, always buy physical when I can.

 

We are in a community of preserving classic video games....In 15-20 years, the Xbox one will be a classic (same with the PS4 for that matter) just like the PS1 and the original Xbox are starting to become.

 

Digital games are the one we should worry about the most about going away for ever.

Edited November 22, 2018 by TheCoolDave

[negative1]

well, since its optional, it's not that big a deal.

 

and besides, i barely care for the current generation of games,

so if they do something radical for the next generation, its their loss.

-------

 

as far as emulation goes, thats going to progress, so they're

making headway on the xbox 360, and ps3 and trying to preserve

all those games, including the xbox arcade ones:

https://xenia.jp/

https://rpcs3.net/

 

at some point down the road, they'll tackle xbox one, and ps4.

 

it's just how things go. sure it will take time, but the effort is there.

 

later

-1

[Andromeda Stardust]

really weird thing is, like the silent film era, many "digital" games will become lost due to our disposeable digital culture. mask roms and discrete logic may well last 200 years. vinyl records 100+ years, cds 50+, cassettes 30+, harddrives, floppies depends on storage versus use, ep-roms 20 years* (some have started to rot before 30), flash 10-15 years possibly less or more depending on use*... drm locks software to hardware meaning if hardware dies, user logs off, servers shut down, etc, then data is lost. dcma has no expiry date unlike patent and copyright. dvd patents are expired but you are not allowed to release free decryption software. currently no public domain material exists on encrypted media, but suffice to say functional nes, atari will exist in 60+ years when super mario © is released. dcma in it's current form will still prevent decryption of public domain discs. unlike silent era films, the early gen games will be well represented but later gen digital games will not. public availability of streaming only movies and tv series ie "netflix originals" is also an issue. in 30 years will people be able to enjoy said content without resorting to piracy? there is a thriving bootleg dvd market for failed tv shows not available on physical media. sad the 2nd through 7th gen video games may be remembered and played 100+ years from now like classic music / lit, yet later digital / drm era games get lost to time and forgotten...

[Bilnick]

really weird thing is, like the silent film era, many "digital" games will become lost due to our disposeable digital culture. mask roms and discrete logic may well last 200 years. vinyl records 100+ years, cds 50+, cassettes 30+, harddrives, floppies depends on storage versus use, ep-roms 20 years* (some have started to rot before 30), flash 10-15 years possibly less or more depending on use*... drm locks software to hardware meaning if hardware dies, user logs off, servers shut down, etc, then data is lost. dcma has no expiry date unlike patent and copyright. dvd patents are expired but you are not allowed to release free decryption software. currently no public domain material exists on encrypted media, but suffice to say functional nes, atari will exist in 60+ years when super mario © is released. dcma in it's current form will still prevent decryption of public domain discs. unlike silent era films, the early gen games will be well represented but later gen digital games will not. public availability of streaming only movies and tv series ie "netflix originals" is also an issue. in 30 years will people be able to enjoy said content without resorting to piracy? there is a thriving bootleg dvd market for failed tv shows not available on physical media. sad the 2nd through 7th gen video games may be remembered and played 100+ years from now like classic music / lit, yet later digital / drm era games get lost to time and forgotten...

 

I think the opposite will be true. The internet and cloud storage makes it more likely today's games and media will be available 20+ years from now. Think of it this way, what is easier to find today? A physical copy of Air Raid or Nintendo World Championship, or a ROM? I am guessing that in 20 years it will be easier to obtain a ROM of Forza Horizon 4 or Super Mario Odyssey and play it on 2040s equivalent of a $35 Raspberry Pi and emulator than it will be to find physical copies and working systems of each game. (Of course there will still be XB1 and Switch around 20 years from now, I am just speculating it will be easier to download the ROMs like it is today)

 

Physical media is what gets lost over time. Paper in books decaying, film decaying, etc. It seems to me that most museums and archivers are digitizing old physical media to preserve whatever information that media contained rather than making new hard copies.