Trackball (and steering) for MAME?

[eegad]

For many years now I've been playing MAME via a PC hooked up to an old 32" CRT tv in my basement. I don't need a real "authentic" arcade experience - for me, sitting in a chair and using an xbox controller works fine for many games. For some games that used just a joystick and one or no buttons (like pacman, q-bert, galaxian, etc), I have a repro USB Atari 2600-style joystick that I'm perfectly happy with.

 

My gripes are with trackball and spinner type games. Using a mouse for the likes of Centipede, Missile Command, Tempest, Major Havoc (a fave of mine) etc. just doesn't work well. Does anyone have a recommendation for a reasonably priced trackball that works fairly well for these games? (and perhaps also let me know what settings you use in mame for analog control sensitivity and speed).

 

 

Yes, I know a few companies sell real arcade style controller boards designed for use with mame, but I can't justify spending $400 for a controller.

 

 

 

Also, while I'm at it - any recommendations for steering options for Pole Position, Turbo and Outrun?

 

 

[MrMaddog]

For MAME, check out the Kensington Trackball: https://www.kensington.com/c/products/control/trackballs/

 

It has a large ball, a scroll ring to use as a spinner and more than two buttons which is useful for Missile Command.

 

Stay away fron Logitech & Microsoft as they are more mouse-like designs where you use your thumb to move the smaller ball...

[Vaughan]

Agree with MrMaddog.

 

In fact, this is precisely what I have used for some time. I got so used to the trackball, I no longer use a mouse at all.

 

Kensington have four trackballs on the market. As you might have guessed, they go from cheap(ish) to expensive.

 

The two cheaper models:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Orbit-Mouse-Ergonomic-Compatible-Sapphire-Blue/dp/B002Q42S4E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542885362&sr=8-1&keywords=kensington+trackball

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Orbit-Mouse-Ergonomic-Compatible/dp/B000HEW0KW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542885362&sr=8-4&keywords=kensington+trackball)

 

both work great.

 

The downside for both the cheaper models is the ball size. They both use a small ball, which for computer use is fine, but for gaming - not so much. They also only have 2 buttons, against the four in the expensive models.

 

There are two models that use a large ball:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Expert-Mouse-Ergonomic-Compatible/dp/B00009KH63/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1542885362&sr=8-2&keywords=kensington+trackball

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-SlimBlade-Mouse-Ergonomic-Compatible/dp/B001MTE32Y/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1542885362&sr=8-6&keywords=kensington+trackball

 

In truth, for gaming, either one does the job. I personally fell in love with the inevitably more expensive model, the Slimline. However I stress, if it's just for gaming, either will do the same job.

 

Setup is practically non-existent. Add to Windows, it's all plug and play. In Mame it will see the Trackball as a mouse, so just configure the game to use a mouse and BOOM, it works.

 

There really is no other way to play, say, Marble Madness. Even the likes of Tempest are much improved by using a trackball.

 

If money is tight, get a cheaper model, if you can stretch to it, get the bigger-ball model.

 

I also use the Trackball in Stella.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Vaughan

[Cynicaster]

For many years now I've been playing MAME via a PC hooked up to an old 32" CRT tv in my basement. I don't need a real "authentic" arcade experience - for me, sitting in a chair and using an xbox controller works fine for many games. For some games that used just a joystick and one or no buttons (like pacman, q-bert, galaxian, etc), I have a repro USB Atari 2600-style joystick that I'm perfectly happy with.

 

My gripes are with trackball and spinner type games. Using a mouse for the likes of Centipede, Missile Command, Tempest, Major Havoc (a fave of mine) etc. just doesn't work well. Does anyone have a recommendation for a reasonably priced trackball that works fairly well for these games? (and perhaps also let me know what settings you use in mame for analog control sensitivity and speed).

 

 

Yes, I know a few companies sell real arcade style controller boards designed for use with mame, but I can't justify spending $400 for a controller.

 

 

 

Also, while I'm at it - any recommendations for steering options for Pole Position, Turbo and Outrun?

 

 

 

 

I can't see a trackball that is marketed as a computer mouse providing a satisfying experience in MAME, but if that is the route you want to go and you need more buttons than what the mouse provides, you could always pull up a keyboard alongside it and map key presses to fire buttons.

 

I seem to recall X-Gaming used to have a standalone trackball controller that interfaces via USB and is intended for arcade gaming. I don't think they make it anymore but maybe you could find a deal on eBay?

 

For MAME driving games, using a trackball or spinner is iffy at best, and I'm not even referring to the obvious fact that trackballs and spinners don't look or feel like an arcade steering wheel. The problem is, there are multiple different types of steering controllers that were used in arcade games over the years. Generally speaking, there are 2 main types: the "free spinning" type used by the likes of Pole Position, Championship Sprint, Iron Man Stewart Super Offroad and a few others., and the non-free-spinning type found on Outrun, for example. Can't remember what Turbo used.

 

The free spinning type steering controller actually maps quite well to trackballs and spinners, because those devices mimic the free spinning behaviour of the original equipment.

 

For games that use the non-free-spinning type, the trackballs and spinners can be setup to work, in the sense that they will send steering commands to the emulator, but the games will be at best pretty frustrating and at worst absolutely unplayable. The reason is, those types of games are looking for a steering controller with an absolute position within some range of motion. When you're holding the original arcade steering wheel, it's easy to tell when you have the wheel centered just by looking at it; plus, lots of them had self-centering mechanisms. Using a trackball or spinner, you need to "hunt" around for center because the physical controls are free-spinning. That may be fine on a straightaway, but when you come to a turn in the track, you steer accordingly, and then when you're coming out of the turn you need to manually move the trackball or spinner back the other way to hunt for center again. You end up over- or under-shooting center and weaving like a maniac down the road as you try to maintain control. It just doesn't work. For those types of games I've found that USB driving controllers work better (Logitech, etc.). But they're also a pain to setup because every game is going to require considerable tweaking of sensitivity, pedal inputs, etc. to make it remotely playable.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Yes, I know a few companies sell real arcade style controller boards designed for use with mame, but I can't justify spending $400 for a controller.

Those are primarily designed for people converting or building arcade cabinets. This can be done for a significantly less-costly price.

 

Take a look at the X-Arcade Tankstick. 2 sticks, 8 buttons per stick, and a trackball plus other assorted useful buttons. $179 now, or $149 if you're willing to wait until Jan. 2nd for it to ship.

 

I've owned three of these over the years (two have been passed on to other people; still using one) and they're worth it. Their big advantage is that they're stable while you're using the controls.

 

Also, while I'm at it - any recommendations for steering options for Pole Position, Turbo and Outrun?

Pretty much any decent PC steering controller with a wheel, gear lever, and pedals. I'm hesitant to make a direct recommendation since the feel of them is pretty subjective.

[mr_me]

 

 

I can't see a trackball that is marketed as a computer mouse providing a satisfying experience in MAME, but if that is the route you want to go and you need more buttons than what the mouse provides, you could always pull up a keyboard alongside it and map key presses to fire buttons.

 

I seem to recall X-Gaming used to have a standalone trackball controller that interfaces via USB and is intended for arcade gaming. I don't think they make it anymore but maybe you could find a deal on eBay?

 

For MAME driving games, using a trackball or spinner is iffy at best, and I'm not even referring to the obvious fact that trackballs and spinners don't look or feel like an arcade steering wheel. The problem is, there are multiple different types of steering controllers that were used in arcade games over the years. Generally speaking, there are 2 main types: the "free spinning" type used by the likes of Pole Position, Championship Sprint, Iron Man Stewart Super Offroad and a few others., and the non-free-spinning type found on Outrun, for example. Can't remember what Turbo used.

 

The free spinning type steering controller actually maps quite well to trackballs and spinners, because those devices mimic the free spinning behaviour of the original equipment.

 

For games that use the non-free-spinning type, the trackballs and spinners can be setup to work, in the sense that they will send steering commands to the emulator, but the games will be at best pretty frustrating and at worst absolutely unplayable. The reason is, those types of games are looking for a steering controller with an absolute position within some range of motion. When you're holding the original arcade steering wheel, it's easy to tell when you have the wheel centered just by looking at it; plus, lots of them had self-centering mechanisms. Using a trackball or spinner, you need to "hunt" around for center because the physical controls are free-spinning. That may be fine on a straightaway, but when you come to a turn in the track, you steer accordingly, and then when you're coming out of the turn you need to manually move the trackball or spinner back the other way to hunt for center again. You end up over- or under-shooting center and weaving like a maniac down the road as you try to maintain control. It just doesn't work. For those types of games I've found that USB driving controllers work better (Logitech, etc.). But they're also a pain to setup because every game is going to require considerable tweaking of sensitivity, pedal inputs, etc. to make it remotely playable.

Yes, outrun and turbo both have potentiometer steering which is position based, and pole position and night driver steering, for example, are spinner/quadrature based (same as a mouse/trackball). I find that mame does a good job emulating a potentiometer rotary control with a spinner; so I can control all these games with a mouse/keyboard. I find the opposite is not true and using a potentiometer based rotary control in mame isn't good for spinner/quadrature control games.

 

I don't have a PC/usb steering wheel controller but I believe they are potentiometer based. So I think they might work well, under mame, with outrun but not pole position. Anybody have one?

[Cynicaster]

Yes, outrun and turbo both have potentiometer steering which is position based, and pole position and night driver steering, for example, are spinner/quadrature based (same as a mouse/trackball). I find that mame does a good job emulating a potentiometer rotary control with a spinner; so I can control all these games with a mouse/keyboard. I find the opposite is not true and using a potentiometer based rotary control in mame isn't good for spinner/quadrature control games.

 

I don't have a PC/usb steering wheel controller but I believe they are potentiometer based. So I think they might work well, under mame, with outrun but not pole position. Anybody have one?

 

I have a Logitech GT-something-or-other USB steering wheel. It has force feedback (when supported by the game), a basic gear shifter (i.e., upshift and downshift only, no gates), and analog pedals for throttle and brake. I believe this wheel is from roughly the era of Gran Turismo 4 on PS2; I use it to play Gran Turismo 6 on PS3 and it's pretty damn sweet for that.

 

I did screw around with it in MAME and it worked very well for Outrun after probably 15 minutes of screwing around with settings to dial it in. But the problem is you can't just take those settings and use them on other similar games. I tried some other game and it was right back to ground zero trying to do the setup so I just said screw it; those games just aren't important enough to me to spend that much time getting them running one by one.

 

I've got an Ultimarc Spin-Trak spinner on my MAME cabinet and occasionally I use it to play games like Pole Position and Sprint and it works quite well. I've even wired up some generic micro-switch based pedals I found for cheap on Amazon from China and put them on the floor in front of the cabinet. I've tried playing potentiometer games like Hang On and Outrun with the spinner and I feel like I'm focusing more energy fighting the incorrect controller than the game itself. When the turns start getting hectic it's just too difficult to keep the vehicle pointed where I want.

[mr_me]

I think arcade Outrun had a self centering steering wheel. So when you play with a spinner in mame you'd have to bring it to center manually. That's a little awkward.

[negative1]

For MAME, check out the Kensington Trackball: https://www.kensington.com/c/products/control/trackballs/

 

It has a large ball, a scroll ring to use as a spinner and more than two buttons which is useful for Missile Command.

 

Stay away fron Logitech & Microsoft as they are more mouse-like designs where you use your thumb to move the smaller ball...

don't listen to this... i can't stand kensington products.

 

i've been using logitech marble trackball for over 10 years, and own at least 6 of them, and they all still work flawlessly..

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Trackman-Marble-Four-Button-Programmable/dp/B001F42MKG

 

they work on every emulator i've every used MAME, Stella, etc, and every console (with an adapter), like the xbox 360,

and xbox one.

 

look me up on the leaderboards at MARP (mame replay site), i've hit high scores on centipede, millipede, and other games easily,

including millions on centipede and millipede on the xbox 360.

 

and guess what, its $20 for the base price.

 

in fact it's better than an arcade trackball, because it's portable, and works on many devices.

 

later

-1

[mr_me]

Logitech has lots of differest styles of trackballs. The trackman marble is one that is finger control like the kensington trackballs but lots of logitech trackballs are thumb control.

 

How well do they work for missile command where you might need something more free spinning.

Edited December 23, 2018 by mr_me

[Dauber]

Sorry to necrobump this, but...I'm just getting around to using my Kensington trackball in MAME. The scroll ring does NOT work in MAME, unfortunately. It WOULD make a great paddle / spinner, but nope. ?