Limbo game

[Yaron Nir]

Ive played the PC version of limbo and I agree with popmilo that in atari port we dont need to go with the same tag line as the original game , we can select levels from that game and alter them a bit to fit atari and still produce a nice game . Looking at c64 adaptation , it also slightly different than the original game....

[atarixle]

Not even a Intel-GMA- or X3100 Mac can do this game

 

Seriously, I think you shouldn't try to port this game with all its graphics. Instead you could get the same atmosphere using pure GR.8 and one dark color flickering from $02 to $04 from time to time. And may be a white player behind this guy's eyes. I for myself would think about a brighter area just and only on top of the screen (instead of the bright far behind areas in the original game).

Don't forget, this has to fit into 64k of memory!

Edited December 13, 2018 by atarixle

[_The Doctor__]

why 64K, you can load levels, perhaps cartridge bank switch, or 130XE, so many fast storage devices sio and pbi, not to mention most people have finally figured out the floppy drives can go faster as well, interleave, slightly quicker loaders, and of course all the upgrades. It doesn't seem as though there would be a hard time making stuff fit or work out.

Edited December 13, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[pajero_pn]

Store Steam promo -80% https://store.steampowered.com/app/48000/LIMBO/?l=english

 

[twh/f2]

Store Steam promo -80% https://store.steampowered.com/app/48000/LIMBO/?l=english

 

 

Thank you Pajero!! Its a good price for a good game idea. I think we don't need a A8 conversion. Sometimes it should just stay as it is. I cant think of much added value to have a limited A8 conversion here.

[snicklin]

Store Steam promo -80% https://store.steampowered.com/app/48000/LIMBO/?l=english

 

 

Nice one! I've got a copy now. Thank you.

 

Now I've played the game a fair bit, I don't think that the A8 can do this. Rather, if the zooming was cut out, the level of physics required is beyond anything I've seen in any other A8 game. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I've never seen it done.

[ggn]

Thank you Pajero!! Its a good price for a good game idea. I think we don't need a A8 conversion. Sometimes it should just stay as it is. I cant think of much added value to have a limited A8 conversion here.

Nice one! I've got a copy now. Thank you.

 

Now I've played the game a fair bit, I don't think that the A8 can do this. Rather, if the zooming was cut out, the level of physics required is beyond anything I've seen in any other A8 game. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I've never seen it done.

It'd be a different game. And by the time anyone realises how much work this needs, they'd give up. Or, preferably, work on something original that they'd like to do instead of someone else's vision.

[Rybags]

If a playalike of this game was done I think it more important to get the gameplay aspects right instead of trying to replicate the technical aspects.

Zoom in/out just won't work. Parallax playfield objects would be a large effort proportional to the return.

 

Most of the game could be covered by simple traditional scrolling platformer techniques. The very tricky part would be where the entire world rotates and gravity acts accordingly.

 

But really, why clone a game that relies on the puzzle aspects and fact you've not played it before to get you hooked? The better option would be a workalike that has it's own world design.

[snicklin]

A playalike would be great, but even if that isn't possible, a technical demo of what could be done in a scrolling graphics 9 environment with atmospheric effects would be great to see. Forget the sprites, just using the playfield colours. It could even be made into a children's story rather than a game.

[Rybags]

I've for whatever reason just spent the last few days playing through both Limbo and Inside about 3 times each.

 

Have to say that Limbo despite inferior graphics (though of course the monochrome + film grain effects are part of the art aspect) it has much better repeat value.

Inside is just too easy, and with only a few exceptions is just a monotonous grind through game once you've played it a dozen times and gotten to know it.

 

Limbo is harder, fair enough you remember the map and most aspects of the puzzle parts but regardless it still demands skill and timing. To get the last bonus egg you have to make it through dying 5 times or less which I don't think I've ever done - sometimes I'll lose multiple lives just at the last part of the game.

The physics have a good blend of gravity and inertia that make the gameplay good (albeit not all that realistic of course).

 

IMO just a game in a similar spirit with scrolling world and similar puzzles and physics would be a great thing.

[Beeblebrox]

Necrobump I know but just didn't wanna start a new thread about this as it exists already.  Plus it has been discussed quite a bit here anyway.

 

Just been on the other thread here about Shanti's showcased platform engine derived from his other main WIP Trax game, and whilst thinking of various things related to that platformer engine it reminded me of another engine I'd love to see on the A8, an in turn I was reminded of this thread and shadow style games like inside and limbo. 

 

So here I'm talking about an A8 sillouette platformer engine inspired by the shadow games such as limbo and inside, not necessarily trying to closely recreate those games on the A8. 

 

I have a question with regards to mixing up 2 x graphics modes. 

 

I know the A8 is capable mixed graphics modes onscreen at one time:

 baloons_atari_rocky.xex

 

Skullman.xex

 

Postcard.xex

 Illusia demo

 

This may well have been mentioned but is it possible to have a gtia 16 luma graphics mode 9(?) background with a medium (gr7) to hi res (gr8) A8 graphics mode black foreground and pmg sprites overlayed in sillouette? (Or even just a 9 luma background and again black med/high foreground overlayed?) AFAIK there has only been talk of using a single standalone mode (either say gr 9 or 8 with pmgs), in this thread, not combining two. (If I've missed this my bad).

 

So here is a crude mock up I just made here I try to illustrate a gr9 16 luma/shade background with a black gr8 overlayed foreground and pmg main character also in hi res gr8 black:

  

 

The pm graphics could be used for the main player and enemies, all in black sillouette, and these and the foreground sillouette graphics all overlay the background, with the screens being static, or the foreground and background scroll if a scrolling engine was implemented. 

 

Given all the pm for the main player and enemies would be black, you could then perhaps have the occasional colour (eg red eyes on the enemies for example, or even blood when injury to either a player or enemy occurs. 

 

eg

 

Maybe this combining and overlaying isn't actually possible - just thought I'd pose the question.

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

By a complete coincidence I just so happened to be looking at the current lost party 2023 vids being posted this weekend on Atarionline.pl and one of the videos of the presentation seems to be talking about mixed graphics modes and even uses soe of the images I posted earlier!  Just a pity I don't speak Polish.

 

 

 

[popmilo]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:41 PM, Beeblebrox said:

Necrobump I know but just didn't wanna start a new thread about this as it exists already.  Plus it has been discussed quite a bit here anyway.

 

Just been on the other thread here about Shanti's showcased platform engine derived from his other main WIP Trax game, and whilst thinking of various things related to that platformer engine it reminded me of another engine I'd love to see on the A8, an in turn I was reminded of this thread and shadow style games like inside and limbo. 

 

So here I'm talking about an A8 sillouette platformer engine inspired by the shadow games such as limbo and inside, not necessarily trying to closely recreate those games on the A8. 

 

I have a question with regards to mixing up 2 x graphics modes. 

 

I know the A8 is capable mixed graphics modes onscreen at one time:

  baloons_atari_rocky.xex 19.62 kB · 1 download

 

Skullman.xex 16.07 kB · 1 download

 

Postcard.xex 17.24 kB · 1 download

 Illusia demo

 

This may well have been mentioned but is it possible to have a gtia 16 luma graphics mode 9(?) background with a medium (gr7) to hi res (gr8) A8 graphics mode black foreground and pmg sprites overlayed in sillouette? (Or even just a 9 luma background and again black med/high foreground overlayed?) AFAIK there has only been talk of using a single standalone mode (either say gr 9 or 8 with pmgs), in this thread, not combining two. (If I've missed this my bad).

 

So here is a crude mock up I just made here I try to illustrate a gr9 16 luma/shade background with a black gr8 overlayed foreground and pmg main character also in hi res gr8 black:

  

 

The pm graphics could be used for the main player and enemies, all in black sillouette, and these and the foreground sillouette graphics all overlay the background, with the screens being static, or the foreground and background scroll if a scrolling engine was implemented. 

 

Given all the pm for the main player and enemies would be black, you could then perhaps have the occasional colour (eg red eyes on the enemies for example, or even blood when injury to either a player or enemy occurs. 

 

eg

 

Maybe this combining and overlaying isn't actually possible - just thought I'd pose the question.

 

I love your mockups !

 

Am afraid that it's not possible like that

 

1. You could do is to put 4 Players+missiles in quad size mode to cover 40 chars width, behind hires mode... But that's only two colors background per scanline and large 8x1 pixels. Front layer would be 320x200.

2. PMs in 20 char width, with 4x1 pixels in 2 colors for back, 160x200 for front...
3. PMs in 20 char width, 8x1 pixels in 4 colors, 160x200 for front

...

Maybe best to stick to normal 4+1 colors char mode, use black as one color for front layer, use rest for back grey layers and just add new shades with precise dli irqs from top to bottom (make back lighter at top or middle of screen like in your pictures.

 

Could be nicely done I guess.

ps. my vote goes for brand new game in this style. No point in trying to remake Limbo... It's too large of a game

 

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, popmilo said:

My vote goes for brand new game in this style. No point in trying to remake Limbo... It's too large of a game

I totally agree. As I mentioned I wasn't so much advocating an attempt at a full on port. Rather a similar style shadow game for the A8, playing to it's strengths. I think for me the quality of animation would be key here, and of course the atmosphere and puzzles, (A8 limits permitting). 

 

Thanks also for explaining the tech side.  Would love to see a good coder run with the idea and knock up a proof of concept screen.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+CharlieChaplin]

Hmmmm,

 

there was / is a gfx format named HR1 and HR2 - the former Gr. 8 with 3 greyscales, the latter Gr. 8 with 5 greyscales. Do not know if the flicker with HR1 or HR2 is very high, but maybe usable for something like this ?  Or how about Gr.8 combined with Gr. 9 or Gr. 15 ?

 

Regarding RAM usage, we have XRAM and bank switching carts up to 1Megabyte and if thats not enough we can use ATR images of 16MB or 32MB and if thats not enough, we can use FAT32. Besides, there is not much software for the VBXE, maybe this would be a candidate?

 

[Beeblebrox]

4 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Hmmmm,

 

there was / is a gfx format named HR1 and HR2 - the former Gr. 8 with 3 greyscales, the latter Gr. 8 with 5 greyscales. Do not know if the flicker with HR1 or HR2 is very high, but maybe usable for something like this ?  Or how about Gr.8 combined with Gr. 9 or Gr. 15 ?

 

Regarding RAM usage, we have XRAM and bank switching carts up to 1Megabyte and if thats not enough we can use ATR images of 16MB or 32MB and if thats not enough, we can use FAT32. Besides, there is not much software for the VBXE, maybe this would be a candidate?

 

Interesting. 

And yeah, I'd not thought about the VBXE. Another possiblity. 

 

Would love to see if something was possible on the stock A8 graphics.

[Rybags]

For backgrounds, possibly something like a parallax rendering system using a modified GTIA mode - ie 80 pixel width with a height of 4 or more pixels.

So maybe a scrolling area of about 100 pixels high (25) could be done, that should be doable at a reasonable frame rate.

[Beeblebrox]

Just because I mentioned mixed mode at the statt here is a realted image submitted in the Graphics compo at Lost Party 2023 just gone - pretty cool

xdraider.xex

(FYI image has been released into the public domain.)

[+Stephen]

Nice use of mixed modes and shading, for sure.

[atarixle]

Wait. Are these 3 colors in graphics 8???

[Rybags]

There's a bit going on there - it's a mix of mode 8, PMGs and PRIOR change to get the 16 luma mode.

[atarixle]

still wow ... there are areas with one pixel white, one pixel grey, and one pixel black. even pixel-perfect hires diagonal lines in all three colors.

[+MrFish]

Hi-res mode -- combined with PM graphics -- is more capable than often thought.

 

[Ati]

cool