Rikki & Vikki

[+SmittyB]

Number 29 landed in my office today after an agonising wait, sadly there's still a few hours to go until I can give it a whirl. I'm pretty pleased with my bundle of boxes and finely rendered foxes.

[+sixersfan105]

Received my #145 on Wednesday! Such a great game. The quality/thickness of the box itself is notable, too, and I hope AtariAge considers this quality of box moving forward with their releases, too!

[Shinju]

No problem, here to help.

 

The two-button inputs getting spurious presses without a second controller attached makes sense - the pulldown resistors which indicate "no press" are in the controller rather than the console. But the only way I actually got the inputs to get stuck high like that was to insert a controller, hold both buttons, and then remove it. When playing with just a single controller attached they'd never wander up on their own. There is a way to work around this in the software, but I'd need to confirm it won't cause any other issues.

 

I've updated the first post to include a troubleshooting section, which covers verifying your cartridge's integrity and this ghost button issue.

 

 

 

So with my main 7800 that has been gone through and recapped etc, with having 2 controllers plugged in I did not see any ghost button input at all, with the other 2 7800 that are 100% bone stock all original with both controllers plugged in they did see button 1 ghosting after about 20-30 min of game play.

 

With that said, its possible that if others are seeing this that these systems might need tune up/recap etc, TailChao does your super cart draw more current then a normal 7800 production 7800 cart? I have never seen any ghost button issues before even with homebrew carts. I have no problem keeping the other controller plugged in to play this at all, no complaints here just want to bring this to your attention!

 

I will say this again, damn amazing game, I was playing this for 2 hours and finally had to force myself to put it down to go to bed, the level layouts and puzzles are fun, the graphics are mind blowing, bosses are HARD AS Nails, (Dark Souls of the 7800 if you will) before I forced myself to quit I was on the bubble cave area and the detail on the shrinking and expanding bubbles was a nice touch, even the lava zone had some nice little fx going on.

 

Solid!

 

I am looking forward to your next release, you guys knocked another one out of the park!

[TailChao]

So with my main 7800 that has been gone through and recapped etc, with having 2 controllers plugged in I did not see any ghost button input at all, with the other 2 7800 that are 100% bone stock all original with both controllers plugged in they did see button 1 ghosting after about 20-30 min of game play.

Okay, good you have at least one of these wedges in operating condition. As for the other two, I have a hypothesis...

 

 

With that said, its possible that if others are seeing this that these systems might need tune up/recap etc, TailChao does your super cart draw more current then a normal 7800 production 7800 cart? I have never seen any ghost button issues before even with homebrew carts. I have no problem keeping the other controller plugged in to play this at all, no complaints here just want to bring this to your attention!

...I doubt the power draw has anything to do with it. Again, Rikki & Vikki is fussier than most other games because it always uses both controller ports and requires them to operate in spec. So it's quite possible to have been happily playing your console for years when something is amiss, just nothing else triggered the problem.

 

While I cannot give a true diagnosis without your consoles in front of me, I do have an explanation based upon these symptoms and prior experience repairing Atari wedges. When you have a two-button controller plugged in to either port, the two-button inputs are pulled down, there's absolutely no way they can rise or register presses unless something else is up. The giveaway for me is that you're running into this after 20 - 30 minutes, by this point the TIA would have warmed up and one of the inputs might be getting stuck. I've not seen this on a 7800, but have run into it on a 2600's TIA. Replacing the chip fixed the issue.

 

 

I am looking forward to your next release, you guys knocked another one out of the park!

Thanks!

[Yoshi]

Received my #145 on Wednesday! Such a great game. The quality/thickness of the box itself is notable, too, and I hope AtariAge considers this quality of box moving forward with their releases, too!

 

Hey, right behind you! Copy 146 came in for me today. I can't wait to try it out.

[mmervine]

Copy #175 arrived at my house today. Just fired up my 7800 to give this a spin. Fantastic work!

[MegaManFan]

Still eagerly awaiting a shipping confirmation on mine. ?

[TailChao]

I gave the ghost button press issue a little more thought last night and this morning, if there was another game which allowed a second player to join in and mash the controls at any time it'd run into the same problem right? But is there anything in the library like that?

Yep, there is - Xenophobe, and there's a report of the same issue right on these forums which is also mitigated by plugging a second controller in. However, if you can't get these to go away even with a second controller attached, definitely send your console in for a tune-up.

Still eagerly awaiting a shipping confirmation on mine. ?

Unless I get an influx of orders over the weekend the last few in the backlog should go out on Monday. Shouldn't be too much longer.


Addendum : Shinju, if you can PM me the serial numbers of your three 7800s and what revision they are (expansion port present or not) it'd be appreciated. I'd like to look for patterns here.

Edited March 2, 2019 by TailChao

[Jinks]

Does rampage work the same way to jump in the game?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Does rampage work the same way to jump in the game?

Yes,

 

And I had forgotten about my post with that issue with Xenophobe! I have played the game again since and not had it do that. I'm trying to think if I've done anything else with my 7800 since then. Maybe I should fire up some Xenophobe again and see? Although now that I think about it, I might have changed out the VR since Dec 2017 with a DC - DC converter that I use in my 7800 now. I honestly don't know and I guess I need to test this out. I've not seen any issues with Rikki & Vikki but then I can't get past the sand level screen with the center platform in the bottom middle with spikes on either side and the heads shooting their arrows at you. Just can't seem to get timing right on getting the blocks so that I can block the shots...etc.

[Jinks]

My copy will be in my hands next week weather permitting. My daughter froze her ears friday getting home from school so she could not pick it up. Mail is mon-fri 8-5 closed sat sun when I am home.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Addendum : Shinju, if you can PM me the serial numbers of your three 7800s and what revision they are (expansion port present or not) it'd be appreciated. I'd like to look for patterns here.

 

This isn't fool proof. I've found plenty of 7800s that have expansion ports on them but were inside later made '87 - '88 era case shells. I'm convinced that Atari took defective returns, repaired them, and then shipped them back out as new instead of refurbished. Pretty sure my original 7800 was done this way as it was purchased new in '87 and was in the newer boxes that didn't mention the keyboard components..etc. And the shell does not have the expansion port opening. But yet the actual main board inside has chips dating from '84 in it, shows extra bodge work indicating factory repairs, and has the expansion port fully intact. It is also missing the extra timing circuit found on the later models and has thus far proven to be 100% compatible with all games I've tossed into it. I've modified a few others that were the same with similar repair work on them. So I wish the serial number bit was accurate to indicate the hardware inside, but I don't believe it is.

[TailChao]

I've not seen any issues with Rikki & Vikki but then I can't get past the sand level screen with the center platform in the bottom middle with spikes on either side and the heads shooting their arrows at you. Just can't seem to get timing right on getting the blocks so that I can block the shots...etc.

Right, that's kind of the concern - the behavior isn't consistent across different units. I can understand getting some interference without any controller connected, as nothing is holding the two-button inputs. But with Shinju's two problem units the pullups in the controllers aren't strong enough to hold the inputs low. This definitely sounds like a bad chip or other input denizen, and would probably affect other games which use the input similarly.

 

Once things calm down here I'll put together a controller adapter that's a little more "DIY" than my ProNES - and drives the inputs a little more aggressively instead of the pull up / down setup Atari uses. At least with that there'll be less need to replace TIAs because their input thresholds are drifting after three decades of use.

 

Regarding that Sand Cavern stage...

 

The timing is a little more generous if you just put a box down on the center platform, then stand on it to avoid the shots. That way they can't hit your legs and you can comfortably wait for a good time to run for the platform and get the keys on either side.

 

 

This isn't fool proof. I've found plenty of 7800s that have expansion ports on them but were inside later made '87 - '88 era case shells.

Agreed, but more data is better than less. That said, the older "AT84" units' guts seem to be pretty consistent.

[+GoldLeader]

So...

 

I finally got some sleep...

 

Probably got about 4-5 inches of snow since last night...But I'm staying in.

 

It's the very start of a 3 day weekend! And that almost never happens.

 

I'm drinking a beer in the afternoon before breakfast.

 

And as I defrost my foyer with a space heater because I don't want icicles growing inside my house...I look outside my front door.

 

Now what do my wondering eyes behold? The footprints in the snow of our postman! The mail is here

 

(Oh, check out the little critter prints that went by my front door too! Probably a dog, but could have been a fox like Rikki or Vikki!)

 

 

So I throw on some fuzzy bear claw slippers, tighten the belt to my green camo bathrobe I'm wearing over my plaid PJs...Hey I'm even wearing a beat up red Atari shirt! There's actually holes in my Fuji logo on this one...And trepidaciously I check the mail...(Braving some extreme cold for about 2 seconds haha..)

 

and.

 

SUCCESS!!!

 

Check out what came today!

 

 

Plus...

 

169 Dude!

 

Yeah I sometimes act like I'm 14...And that's being Generous!

 

 

 

Cheers AtariAge! I hope Everyone else here is having a Great Day!!

 

Once this cart defrosts, I'm gonna check it out!

[MrBeefy]

Haven't played much but what I have looks great. I haven't got far enough to see if my system has issues. I will have to say if it continues to be great as I play it will be up there with BBCQ as the grails of the 7800.

[Jinks]

Door delivery cool just like the early 2000's. With that little skiff of snow the weather must be t-shirt time for me dude. enjoy ya game!!

[DJ Clae]

Can't wait to get mine!

[+GoldLeader]

The game is Fun as Hell!!

 

So ...

 

I can't be the only guy who put in his initials as ASS on the high score right? Just a little subtle fun thing but...Let's just say they knew some bonehead would do this.

 

 

 

 

OK, I tried it a second time and it acted normal...I could swear the first time I did it, it replaced ASS with T.P...Hmmmm ...I didn't imagine that did I?

[Jess Ragan]

I watched the ending for the two player version on YouTube, and I have to wonder... what's the deal with the dragon, really?

 

(Spoilers) There's a tiny, helpless version of him nested inside his ultimate form, and he cries caustic tears as an attack. Did something happen to him at a young age to make him so eager to spread misery to everyone else? He's a bastard and most likely a felon, but it would at least explain why he does what he does.

[CatPix]

So, Yesterday, I got home late, and... There were two things waiting for me in the mail.

Oh boy! The first in a brown box, so I know what it is... But the second... A yellow enveloppe... Hmm surely some Chinese stuff I ordered weeks ago.

But wait... I see no Chinese on that label... could it be...

 

 

Heh yeah, the game is so awesome, everything come together at once!

 

 

I noticed that the numbers on the tickets are following so... have you numbered from 0 or 1 and following? Or are they random?

 

I noticed one small issue, which is probably related to the RGB modification by Atari; the sound from the extra sound chip is very muted, it's easily half of the TIA volume. I don't have any POKEY game to check if that's a problem with the audio expansion pins or just Rikki&Vikki.

I'll try to snap a video to showcase it, but it sould muffled like there was a too great of a resistor installed somewhere.

 

And here are some pictures :

 

 

 

 

Even if it's RGB, it's merely composite or s-video converted to RGB so there is a certain level of bleeding.

Edited March 3, 2019 by CatPix

[NostAlgae37]

So, Yesterday, I got home late, and... There were two things waiting for me in the mail.

Oh boy! The first in a brown box, so I know what it is... But the second... A yellow enveloppe... Hmm surely some Chinese stuff I ordered weeks ago.

But wait... I see no Chinese on that label... could it be...

 

 

Heh yeah, the game is so awesome, everything come together at once!

 

I got mine late last week (#1-161), but it didn't come with a music CD... What gives, was that a separate purchase?

[CatPix]

Yes ^^ You have to order it from RushJet store. It's why I found it amazing, I ordered the CD two days after so there were little chance of both items arriving the exact same day.

 

Sorry for the confusion - the CD isn't supposed to be included with the game.

Edited March 3, 2019 by CatPix

[+-^CrossBow^-]

So, Yesterday, I got home late, and... There were two things waiting for me in the mail.

Oh boy! The first in a brown box, so I know what it is... But the second... A yellow enveloppe... Hmm surely some Chinese stuff I ordered weeks ago.

But wait... I see no Chinese on that label... could it be...

 

 

Heh yeah, the game is so awesome, everything come together at once!

 

 

I noticed that the numbers on the tickets are following so... have you numbered from 0 or 1 and following? Or are they random?

 

I noticed one small issue, which is probably related to the RGB modification by Atari; the sound from the extra sound chip is very muted, it's easily half of the TIA volume. I don't have any POKEY game to check if that's a problem with the audio expansion pins or just Rikki&Vikki.

I'll try to snap a video to showcase it, but it sould muffled like there was a too great of a resistor installed somewhere.

 

And here are some pictures :

 

 

 

 

Even if it's RGB, it's merely composite or s-video converted to RGB so there is a certain level of bleeding.

 

The audio issue I believe is due to the fact that Atari hosed up the original resistor values on the PAL 7800 systems. I think the only game released in PAL countries with Pokey support was BallBlazer and it only uses the pokey for all audio. So it likely has never been noticed. There are two things you can do..

 

One is to use the left difficulty switch to adjust TIA volume between loud and soft. The Left position is loud and right is soft. If that still doesn't do it, there is an internal volume adjustment for the music inside the cart itself. But you would have to open it to get to it. I'm not sure which resistor values Atari used on the PAL units but I suppose the best fix, would be to replace those out on the console itself with corrected values. On the NTSC systems Atari used an 12k - 18k on the TIA line and a 6k8 on the expanded audio line. It is the 6k8 that is likely replaced with a higher value on the PAL units causing the expanded audio to be much lower in volume.

 

I just went through all my Magic Knight s-video boards last night to tweak and adjust them and replaced out the original resistors he was using on the audio lines with 18k and 3k3 as for some reason using the 6k8 was still too low in volume compared to the TIA through those boards.

[TailChao]

Haven't played much but what I have looks great. I haven't got far enough to see if my system has issues. I will have to say if it continues to be great as I play it will be up there with BBCQ as the grails of the 7800.

Did you throw away the box before playing? I want to make sure it's compatible with all waste receptacles.

 

The ghost button press issues usually show up when your console has warmed rather than reaching a certain part of the game (although the two are sometimes sync'd). But again, this doesn't affect all consoles and if it does show up - plug in a second two-button controller and you should be good.

 

 

OK, I tried it a second time and it acted normal...I could swear the first time I did it, it replaced ASS with T.P...Hmmmm ...I didn't imagine that did I?

T.P is one of the defaults for single player mode. Don't forget the high scores will reset whenever you turn your console off.

 

 

I watched the ending for the two player version on YouTube, and I have to wonder... what's the deal with the dragon, really?

This is left up to the player's imagination, however...

 

 

...while Misery is quite a jerk, it's not the result of the usual abloobloobloo childhood trauma garbage.

 

 

I noticed that the numbers on the tickets are following so... have you numbered from 0 or 1 and following? Or are they random?

The tickets start at "101" for the retail copies and follow the serial numbers (packing order).

 

 

I noticed one small issue, which is probably related to the RGB modification by Atari; the sound from the extra sound chip is very muted, it's easily half of the TIA volume. I don't have any POKEY game to check if that's a problem with the audio expansion pins or just Rikki&Vikki.

This affects all PAL or (in your case) RGB / SCART hardware. Atari changed the value of the audio mixing resistors, so the TIA is a little over twice as loud compared to NTSC units.

 

Luckily there's a workaround, use the Left Difficulty Switch to adjust the TIA / Sound Effects volume (Left for Loud, Right for Quiet). You can also open your cartridge and use the volume adjustment knob to tweak the music volume to your taste.

Edited March 3, 2019 by TailChao

[CatPix]

I already set the TIA switch to quiet, and there is still a noticeable difference; plus I have to put my TVs volume at half power at least to hear the music, wich isn't great as the TIA sound effect get quite loud and there is a noticeable "hum" obviously.
I think I'll tinker directly in the Atari 7800 to see and solve that issue rather than fiddling in the cart, so when I'll get other games I'll have the correct volume.
Plus, it's really muted, which make me think that the conceptor or the board might have added extra resistors on the sound output; usually on older TVs the SCART sound input was much more loud than the RF TV sound, so Atari might have overcorrected the issue on the Peritel 7800.


In any case, I'm glad to know it's an easily fixable issue

Just to you get an idea. And yes, that is recorded with the TIA sound effects put on low. Edited March 3, 2019 by CatPix