Rikki & Vikki

[Theallknowingsause]

How the heck did Gimmick for the famicom pull it off with a team of 5 people (only 1 programmer)

Edited December 10, 2019 by Theallknowingsause
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[TailChao]

2 minutes ago, Theallknowingsause said:

How the heck did Gimmick for the famicom pull it off with a team of 5 people (only 1 programmer)

That's a reasonable staff for that era, Sonic the Hedgehog had a team of seven - you didn't start to see larger teams until the multimedia craze really took off. But if we're comparing titles like this to low budget / independent games developed now, it can't be done just by team size. These guys were working full time with a stable salary and project schedule. You'll get a much higher (and I'd argue more predictable) output this way even though development back then was more difficult.

 

Also, Gimmick was a late release (1992) - by that point Sunsoft had been working with the hardware for a significant amount of time and could probably leverage existing resources, tools, or whatever from their previous titles. Like, Ufouria just came out the year prior.

[Theallknowingsause]

That's a good point, plus the 7800 didn't really have a chance for the developers to find all the unintended tricks that console could do (example, what crazy things the Sid chip could accomplish later in life)

Edited December 10, 2019 by Theallknowingsause
Literally added the words "for the developers"

[Clint Thompson]

I finally got around to hooking this up tonight. 

 

Has anyone else experienced weird video glitchness like this? It’s consistent. I’ve ran the checksum and it comes back fine. Other games play fine, is it the cart?

 

 

[MrBeefy]

39 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

I finally got around to hooking this up tonight. 

 

Has anyone else experienced weird video glitchness like this? It’s consistent. I’ve ran the checksum and it comes back fine. Other games play fine, is it the cart?

 

 

Mine hasn't done that.

[HoshiChiri]

42 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

I finally got around to hooking this up tonight. 

 

Has anyone else experienced weird video glitchness like this? It’s consistent. I’ve ran the checksum and it comes back fine. Other games play fine, is it the cart?

I haven't had it do that. I'm guessing either defective cart, or bad cart/system combo-every so often I run into an otherwise fine system that won't play otherwise fine carts. Just happens, I guess.

[+SmittyB]

Just a guess but does that happen if you try a different TV? Given it seems to be running fine behind the glitches I wonder if it's your TV misinterpreting the video signal.

[Jinks]

Is that a video modded system? 

This game for how tech advanced it is plus the combo of the glitchy pita 7800 hardware has been surprisingly rock solid for reliability. 

 

[TailChao]

10 hours ago, Clint Thompson said:

I finally got around to hooking this up tonight. 

 

Has anyone else experienced weird video glitchness like this? It’s consistent. I’ve ran the checksum and it comes back fine. Other games play fine, is it the cart?

That is very strange, it almost looks like the television is losing sync. The checksum only verifies the integrity of the flash, it's possible the mapper or some other component could have been damaged in transit.

 

Some thoughts...

• You just purchased this 7800, right - has it been refurbished (new electrolytic capacitors, voltage regulator, etc.)?
• It looks like you're connected to the television using RF or Composite - has the 7800 been modified for any other video output and (if so) do the same issues appear when using these?
• As of writing, Rikki & Vikki is the only title which uses the HALTn pin to discern between code and graphic fetches. If this pin has a poor contact it can cause instability or graphic corruption in this game and no other. This might be something as simple as a dirty cartridge slot.
• Are you able to start the game (i.e. enter the menu and start playing) despite the issues?

 

If the issue persists send an email to the support address to arrange a replacement, refund, or further investigation.

[Clint Thompson]

7 hours ago, SmittyB said:

Just a guess but does that happen if you try a different TV? Given it seems to be running fine behind the glitches I wonder if it's your TV misinterpreting the video signal.

Haven't tried a different TV but I've ran every Atari system through this without problems in the past and other 7800 games work fine but I will try later to rule it out just in case. Can't hurt. ?

2 hours ago, Jinks said:

Is that a video modded system? 

This game for how tech advanced it is plus the combo of the glitchy pita 7800 hardware has been surprisingly rock solid for reliability. 

 

Standard stock NTSC machine through RF, no mods. Speaking of Jinks, I did play that briefly last night. ?

6 minutes ago, TailChao said:

That is very strange, it almost looks like the television is losing sync. The checksum only verifies the integrity of the flash, it's possible the mapper or some other component could have been damaged in transit.

 

Some thoughts...

• You just purchased this 7800, right - has it been refurbished (new electrolytic capacitors, voltage regulator, etc.)?
• It looks like you're connected to the television using RF or Composite - has the 7800 been modified for any other video output and (if so) do the same issues appear when using these?
• As of writing, Rikki & Vikki is the only title which uses the HALTn pin to discern between code and graphic fetches. If this pin has a poor contact it can cause instability or graphic corruption in this game and no other. This might be something as simple as a dirty cartridge slot.
• Are you able to start the game (i.e. enter the menu and start playing) despite the issues?

 

If the issue persists send an email to the support address to arrange a replacement, refund, or further investigation.

As far as I know it's not refurbished and still has a few warranty stickers intact on both the system and controllers. Seems to be a fully stock, non-modified unit with no expansion port. I ended up playing a few hours worth of Galaga, Tower Toppler and Ball Blazer and they worked as expected through RF.

 

The game will continue to start/play but the glitches appear randomly through the cut-scene and the top of the screen appears to be delayed during graphic draw or update at each stage so it seems odd (maybe that's how the game works), not like a TV refresh issue. I'll proceed to clean the port contacts to see if that resolves the issue and go from there.

 

Appreciate the troubleshooting assistance!

[Battlefish]

On 12/9/2019 at 7:18 PM, Clint Thompson said:

Are you saying you didn't care for it?

No no no! It's just that when I played through the first time, it was all by myself. So, the "bad ending" really took me by surprise!

[Hastor]

I've checked it out but haven't sat down to get into it yet. I rarely have another person to play with, and when I do it's hard to get them interested in the older stuff. I'll wait until I find an interested friend to actually play this one if it's the only way to really finish it, though that might honestly be never lol. I know people that will play it with me maybe, but not for more than 30 mins and I see these people like 3 times a year haha

My gf plays some classics with me but also not for extended periods and doesn't like anything that would be considered a puzzle game in the slightest, aside from Tetris/columns style games.

I'm glad I've got it cause it's for the 7800 but I quit buying games I can't complete on my own a long time ago. My gaming friends are all on forums etc. or in another state. Maybe I should just watch a playthrough online. Is kind of a bummer to hear.

[8_is_enuff]

8 hours ago, Clint Thompson said:

Haven't tried a different TV but I've ran every Atari system through this without problems in the past and other 7800 games work fine but I will try later to rule it out just in case. Can't hurt. ?

Standard stock NTSC machine through RF, no mods. Speaking of Jinks, I did play that briefly last night. ?

As far as I know it's not refurbished and still has a few warranty stickers intact on both the system and controllers. Seems to be a fully stock, non-modified unit with no expansion port. I ended up playing a few hours worth of Galaga, Tower Toppler and Ball Blazer and they worked as expected through RF.

 

The game will continue to start/play but the glitches appear randomly through the cut-scene and the top of the screen appears to be delayed during graphic draw or update at each stage so it seems odd (maybe that's how the game works), not like a TV refresh issue. I'll proceed to clean the port contacts to see if that resolves the issue and go from there.

 

Appreciate the troubleshooting assistance!

I can confirm that its never been modded or opened up.  I purchased it new in the 1990's. 

 

I'm sorry for the trouble Clint.

[TwoShedsWilson]

16 hours ago, Hastor said:

I've checked it out but haven't sat down to get into it yet. I rarely have another person to play with, and when I do it's hard to get them interested in the older stuff. I'll wait until I find an interested friend to actually play this one if it's the only way to really finish it, though that might honestly be never lol. I know people that will play it with me maybe, but not for more than 30 mins and I see these people like 3 times a year haha

My gf plays some classics with me but also not for extended periods and doesn't like anything that would be considered a puzzle game in the slightest, aside from Tetris/columns style games.

I'm glad I've got it cause it's for the 7800 but I quit buying games I can't complete on my own a long time ago. My gaming friends are all on forums etc. or in another state. Maybe I should just watch a playthrough online. Is kind of a bummer to hear.

I feel your pain. My wife won't play anything and my kids will only play certain "old" things and even then for short periods of time.

[Theallknowingsause]

I thought the bad ending was really funny but I'm was kinda pissed off that I have to get a friend to play with me to get the best ending (all of my friends who are my age usually have never even heard the word "Atari") so I'm still searching for someone willing to play the game with me, but it's still fun just to play the game single player.

 

(I forgot to quote Battlefish on this, I was replying to him)

Edited December 12, 2019 by Theallknowingsause
Forgot to mention something

[Hastor]

52 minutes ago, TwoShedsWilson said:

I feel your pain. My wife won't play anything and my kids will only play certain "old" things and even then for short periods of time.

Yeah normally when I get a 'new' classic system I didn't have before, I want all the accessories to be able to do anything available for it to the fullest. My last purchase was a 3DO system. The controllers daisy chain and it supports up to 8! At first It was like I need 8 controllers, my local game store even had some cheaper than eBay. But I let reality sink in and realized I'll probably never use the three I have at the same time, and I only have 3 because one is the original 3 button, and the other two are different variations on the six button pad. I'll never have 8 people over... Period lol - much less that wanna spend the evening playing 3DO!

 

I do gotta give my gf credit though, we play games together a lot, and most recently spent quite a lot of time on Ballblazer for 7800, which she really took to. She's also into circuit bending, including modifying the small arcade machines you can get, corrupting ROMs, etc. She's into noise and glitch art, does some shows using classic games for video and sounds, usually corrupted in some way. Made a 'haunted' mame cab that's nothing but bad hacks and crappy clones.

Just can't get her into longer gaming sessions or puzzle stuff.

[Battlefish]

1 hour ago, Theallknowingsause said:

I thought the bad ending was really funny but I'm was kinda pissed off that I have to get a friend to play with me to get the best ending (all of my friends who are my age usually have never even heard the word "Atari") so I'm still searching for someone willing to play the game with me, but it's still fun just to play the game single player.

 

(I forgot to quote Battlefish on this, I was replying to him)

No worries about the lack of quote, haha. But yeah, I still had a lot of fun with the game!

[+Yurkie]

Very late to this but I just bought 2 carts. As far as people where talking about a gamepad to play this with I would recommend buying the Seagull 7800 adapter from the Atariage store and the M30 8bitdo Genesis controller. This controller is wonderful! I use the 2.4GHZ for my Sega Genesis.

 

Here's a couple links if anyone is interested.

 

Seagull 7800

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1079

 

M30 8Bitdo Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XPHP57T/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Hastor]

I've also been using EdLaddin's Super Arcade Controller, which in addition to being an arcade stick for Atari 2600, 7800, ColecoVision, and Coleco Flashback, also operates as an adapter, allowing you to plug a controller from any of those systems, or Sega Genesis, in the front, to use on any of the 4 it connects to from the back. You can still use the keypad on the stick for Coleco, allowing Genesis and 7800 controllers to work with games requiring the number pad on Coleco.

 

I don't see that with their other controllers on AtariAge however. I do see it in the edladdin site but the checkout was broken and I got no response to an email. When I bought mine they weren't on AtariAge yet.

 

Playing with a Genesis controller does work well, and I recommend that stick to anyone that has both Coleco and Atari 2600/7800, if it can still be found.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Hastor

[TailChao]

Regarding cooperative play, I'd not actually recommend Rikki & Vikki as an introductory experience to this. Something like World of Illusion on the Genesis offers a much more relaxed difficulty but still mandates that both players work together to solve problems, one can't drag the other through the whole game.

 

19 hours ago, Yurkie said:

Very late to this but I just bought 2 carts. As far as people where talking about a gamepad to play this with I would recommend buying the Seagull 7800 adapter from the Atariage store and the M30 8bitdo Genesis controller. This controller is wonderful! I use the 2.4GHZ for my Sega Genesis.

Any of 8bitdo's products come highly recommended, and most include mapping profiles in Rikki & Vikki's Windows version - M30 included.

[Andromeda Stardust]

On 12/12/2019 at 10:25 AM, Hastor said:

 

I do gotta give my gf credit though, we play games together a lot, and most recently spent quite a lot of time on Ballblazer for 7800, which she really took to. She's also into circuit bending, including modifying the small arcade machines you can get, corrupting ROMs, etc. She's into noise and glitch art, does some shows using classic games for video and sounds, usually corrupted in some way. Made a 'haunted' mame cab that's nothing but bad hacks and crappy clones.

Just can't get her into longer gaming sessions or puzzle stuff.

Art from corrupted video games. That is actually really clever. What does she do? Awesome you've got someone who's into modding.

[Theallknowingsause]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:14 PM, Yurkie said:

 

For some reason it won't let me reply without quoting Yurkie, I was going to reply with a blank reply and delete it, but it wouldn't let me delete! Sorry lol

Edited December 17, 2019 by Theallknowingsause
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[Theallknowingsause]

Hey everyone, (including you Tailchao) what would everyone think about me making a super in depth video on Rikki & Vikki? 

My plan is to start with the history, then a review, then talk about the beta and unused content. My plan is for the video to be At least 20 minutes long (planning on longer).

I used to make YouTube videos, and from experience I know that this will take a while, (especially since Wikipedia won't help lol).

If any of you want to contribute in any way (footage from an actual Atari, glitches or Easter eggs you have found, or beta information (which would be the most helpful) I would credit you and give you a free drawing as a thanks)

I'm planning on starting production when I have all the information I'm happy with and really don't want to skim even the most small or unimportant fact or quirk.

Thank you for reading!

Edited December 17, 2019 by Theallknowingsause
Grammar fixes

[TailChao]

You're welcome to make whatever content you like.

Of course, I'm quite flattered that it's about something I did.

 

The only thing I'd caution about is making assumptions regarding the game's development process - especially with changes or what is considered unused. We had nearly zero public facing content until two weeks before launch, and while I did dump some of my design notes on Twitter they don't reflect what was actually going on behind the scenes.

 

I kept archive of every major build and all the test footage back to the first time the game was running on the hardware in early 2015. Most of these I cannot give out, but I was planning on releasing select prototype footage at a later date (prefix "later" with one or more "much"es). If you have specific questions on anything (i.e. "the stage in this photo didn't appear in the final game, what happened?" or "why is Direct Dutposit offered after two game overs rather than at the start?") - I'm always happy to answer these over DM, it may just take some time. This goes for anyone.

 

 

That's really the biggest constraint for me, and I've gone through the loop of "we'd like to do an interview, are you interested?" - replying "yes" and that's the extent of it around six times in the last year. So right now I can only guarantee answers to clear questions, not much else.

[Theallknowingsause]

12 minutes ago, TailChao said:

You're welcome to make whatever content you like.

Of course, I'm quite flattered that it's about something I did.

 

The only thing I'd caution about is making assumptions regarding the game's development process - especially with changes or what is considered unused. We had nearly zero public facing content until two weeks before launch, and while I did dump some of my design notes on Twitter they don't reflect what was actually going on behind the scenes.

 

I kept archive of every major build and all the test footage back to the first time the game was running on the hardware in early 2015. Most of these I cannot give out, but I was planning on releasing select prototype footage at a later date (prefix "later" with one or more "much"es). If you have specific questions on anything (i.e. "the stage in this photo didn't appear in the final game, what happened?" or "why is Direct Dutposit offered after two game overs rather than at the start?") - I'm always happy to answer these over DM, it may just take some time. This goes for anyone.

 

 

That's really the biggest constraint for me, and I've gone through the loop of "we'd like to do an interview, are you interested?" - replying "yes" and that's the extent of it around six times in the last year. So right now I can only guarantee answers to clear questions, not much else.

Awesome! Again it might take a while because I haven't edited a video in a while and I want to wait until I have all the information I'm happy with, but that would be awesome if we could start a little dm conversation soon, I've always wanted to make a beta video on a game and also a review on a game I love! 

 

Thank you for the encouragement