Rikki & Vikki

[TailChao]

4 minutes ago, Bratwurst said:

I think you are a demon for keeping the empty slots in the orange cart shell where the label goes, typical of original 7800 cartridges, but I mean that as a compliment, because I respect evilness. The shell itself is really well made btw.

Hahaha, thanks.

 

I wanted to ditch these but was paranoid there'd be some obscure 7800 variant which had a latching dust cover like the 2600. The "teeth" near the card edge are used to open these latches, which necessitates both holes in the label side plastics (so they can be ejected from the injection mold). The only other option was to have a spring mechanism like Atari's older cartridge design - which was out of our price point.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bratwurst said:

I look forward to seeing what you come up with in the future, hopefully it will be for a platform I already own, if tied to hardware of any sort.

This is very appreciated, and I think we'll be able to do a much better game next time based upon the feedback we received on this one.

 

One promise I will definitely keep is that there will always be an "alternate" way to play if the software targets a dinosaur, akin to how Rikki & Vikki is also available on Windows.

[Hastor]

If it is for a system I don't have, I'll probably get that system. I have most, so unless it is on neo Geo, vectrex, or bally astrocade (or an old computer other than Apple II), I'm probably good

 

I actually bought my 7800 (RCA modded) in response to SainT's announcement of a flash cart being in development for it, and then someone mentioned that while his cart will support Pokey sound, it wouldn't support other sound chips like this uses, leading me to track this down because it sounded really unique, and it is awesome! The cart will remain the only way to play it on real hardware (with sound anyway, not sure about otherwise). I love stuff like that. Even if the next one would work in a flash cart, I always get real carts rather than play in an emulator or flash drive, especially if the ROM isn't distributed like that, but usually even when it is, unless the cart version is sold out or too expensive to justify, and the creator is offering a rom for cheap. Having something a flash cart can't do is an extra bonus though!

[TailChao]

20 hours ago, Hastor said:

If it is for a system I don't have, I'll probably get that system. I have most, so unless it is on neo Geo, vectrex, or bally astrocade (or an old computer other than Apple II), I'm probably good

Time to finish buffing my libraries for the 3DO, CD-i, and Watara SuperVision then.

 

 

Quote

I actually bought my 7800 (RCA modded) in response to SainT's announcement of a flash cart being in development for it, and then someone mentioned that while his cart will support Pokey sound, it wouldn't support other sound chips like this uses, leading me to track this down because it sounded really unique, and it is awesome! The cart will remain the only way to play it on real hardware (with sound anyway, not sure about otherwise). I love stuff like that. Even if the next one would work in a flash cart, I always get real carts rather than play in an emulator or flash drive, especially if the ROM isn't distributed like that, but usually even when it is, unless the cart version is sold out or too expensive to justify, and the creator is offering a rom for cheap. Having something a flash cart can't do is an extra bonus though!

There's two components that'd have to be supported in order to run Rikki & Vikki 1:1 on SainT's 7800 GD (or any other flash cartridge) : SOUPER (mapper) and the BupChip (audio expansion). I've encouraged adding at least the former to help other developers use it in their software, as right now the only option is to ask for one of our surplus prototype boards. This is fairly low effort (the mapper is simple) and would at least allow you to run the game without sound. Excluding the latter is totally understandable as it's an entire microcontroller and support circuitry.

 

At least from what I remember of the Twitter threads (when the 7800 GD was still the 7800 SD), there was some chatter of including new audio options outside of just Pokey along with another new mapper. So plenty of choices if you're not interested in designing your own hardware.

Edited February 20, 2020 by TailChao

[Theallknowingsause]

I'm kinda sick of people using the pokey chip in Atari 7800 Homebrew games, using that chip is way too expensive imo, plus you need to sacrifice other cartridges for your home brew games to have expanded audio what evers. I know of the pokey one chip thing but just that chip alone adds another $20 on top of the already high price of Homebrew Atari 7800 games. I'm very happy you made the choice of creating your own custom mapper and sound chip to reduce cost and improve sound.

[AtariBrian]

15 minutes ago, Theallknowingsause said:

I'm kinda sick of people using the pokey chip in Atari 7800 Homebrew games, using that chip is way too expensive imo, plus you need to sacrifice other cartridges for your home brew games to have expanded audio what evers. I know of the pokey one chip thing but just that chip alone adds another $20 on top of the already high price of Homebrew Atari 7800 games. I'm very happy you made the choice of creating your own custom mapper and sound chip to reduce cost and improve sound.

Already high price 7800 games?? How are they all too high? And how much should they cost? And how many do you own? Do you know that Rikki isn't much cheaper than those "high priced" pokey homebrews you are talking about? Not to mention, who cares about or plays Ballblazer anyways? It's pretty much a crap game. And if they weren't being used for the pokey, the cart would be to plentiful and nobody would want it. 

[Hastor]

50 minutes ago, TailChao said:

Time to finish buffing my libraries for the 3DO, CD-i, and Watara SuperVision then.

You got me on the Watara Supervision (though I'd track one down for a new game probably).

 

My Philips CD-i 220 (with rebuilt laser mechanism) and my Magnavox CD-i, both with new timekeeper chips, along with My 3DO FZ-10 with new caps, RGB output, and 240p/480i switch, are ready for you!!!

[Theallknowingsause]

16 minutes ago, AtariBrian said:

Already high price 7800 games?? How are they all too high? And how much should they cost? And how many do you own? Do you know that Rikki isn't much cheaper than those "high priced" pokey homebrews you are talking about? Not to mention, who cares about or plays Ballblazer anyways? It's pretty much a crap game. And if they weren't being used for the pokey, the cart would be to plentiful and nobody would want it. 

Rikki and Vikki comes in a box full of goodies, the game with a sound chip and a Manuel, it's $70. Bentley bear's Christal quest with the pokey one included is around $76 and it doesn't even come with a box.

I think for what you get with Rikki & Vikki $70 is a fair price.

 

Edit: Not trying to throw mud twords Bentley Bear, I just wanted to use that game for comparison purposes. 

 

Last edit: what the heck are you talking about Ball Blazer is great!

I also am new to collecting to the system, I have a bunch of 2600 games, Rikki & Vikki, and Poll Position 2.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Theallknowingsause
Clarification

[+save2600]

^  Don't know who Manuel or Christal are, but a couple of minor corrections:  

 

Rikki & Vikki is actually $59.99 (not $70) CIB w/ feelies as you mentioned.

 

Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest is $75 with PokeyONE (or $55 if you supply a Ballblazer cart) and both come CIB for that price. 
 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=109

[Theallknowingsause]

1 hour ago, save2600 said:

^  Don't know who Manuel or Christal are, but a couple of minor corrections:  

 

Rikki & Vikki is actually $59.99 (not $70) CIB w/ feelies as you mentioned.

 

Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest is $75 with PokeyONE (or $55 if you supply a Ballblazer cart) and both come CIB for that price. 
 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=10 

Sorry about the misspellings, my class was almost over and I was in a rush with frantically tapping my crappy phone keyboard before the bell rang.

 

I really didn't want to start an argument, just wanted to say that Osman is awesome for having a decent price for a very impressive Atari 7800 game with enough doohickey's in the cartridge to make anyone happy.

 

I'm also comparing Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest with the version that has the sound chip already inside it because that's how Rikki & Vikki is sold. 

 

Also thank you for correcting me on the prices, I usually overestimate on stuff like that.

[Hastor]

Not to stay off topic, but my gf and I regularly get out the 7800, sometimes the 5200, just for BallBlazer. I missed out on it as a kid and she's 7 years younger so missed out on its era altogether. We both discovered it last year and play all the time. It's one of my favorite classics, especially considering I have no nostalgia for it!

Edited February 20, 2020 by Hastor

[gambler172]

2 hours ago, save2600 said:

^  Don't know who Manuel or Christal are, but a couple of minor corrections:  

 

Rikki & Vikki is actually $59.99 (not $70) CIB w/ feelies as you mentioned.

 

Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest is $75 with PokeyONE (or $55 if you supply a Ballblazer cart) and both come CIB for that price. 
 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=109

You should know,that Bentley is free for downloading ?

Bob does not make the prices.....

Rikki and Vikki is not free...

The higher price for Bentley is the result of the 

expensive Pokey

 

Btw.....both games are great 

[Jinks]

This R and V game was a steal for what you get for the price. 

Many homebrewers would have charged over 100 USD 

[Hastor]

Dammit, I know you were joking about Watera Supervision, but it's one system I'd never looked into, and I've researched most. You prompted me to look into it, now I have one on the way... And a multicart... And the only homebrew game I'm aware of, Assembloids.

 

And I'd called my console collection done (except for maybe a Vectrex)!

Edited February 22, 2020 by Hastor

[TailChao]

8 hours ago, Hastor said:

Dammit, I know you were joking about Watera Supervision, but it's one system I'd never looked into, and I've researched most. You prompted me to look into it, now I have one on the way... And a multicart... And the only homebrew game I'm aware of, Assembloids.

Well, I'm not entirely joking since I wrote an emulator for it and are currently working on reverse engineering the TV-Link - which does require a significant amount of library work and test suites. A full game like this, though? Absolutely maybe not.

 

I sincerely apologize for inspiring you to learn more about, and spend actual money on, this dumpster fire of a console. But have fun with Assembloids!

[Shawn]

On 2/20/2020 at 3:02 PM, Theallknowingsause said:

Sorry about the misspellings, my class was almost over and I was in a rush with frantically tapping my crappy phone keyboard before the bell rang.

 

I really didn't want to start an argument, just wanted to say that Osman is awesome for having a decent price for a very impressive Atari 7800 game with enough doohickey's in the cartridge to make anyone happy.

 

I'm also comparing Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest with the version that has the sound chip already inside it because that's how Rikki & Vikki is sold. 

 

Also thank you for correcting me on the prices, I usually overestimate on stuff like that.

 

Did you buy a 7800 cartridge of Bentley Bear and\or Rikki & Vikki? For some reason I get the vibe you bought the $10 steam version of R&V did you not? I was under the impression you don't use original 7800 hardware. So sorry if I'm mistaken.

[Hastor]

2 hours ago, TailChao said:

I sincerely apologize for inspiring you to learn more about, and spend actual money on, this dumpster fire of a console. But have fun with Assembloids!

Hah, I'm sure I'll have a blast. While I love quality stuff like R&V, I do have two fixed up CD-i's - I have a thing for garbage games and consoles!

[Theallknowingsause]

On 2/22/2020 at 7:27 AM, Shawn said:

 

Did you buy a 7800 cartridge of Bentley Bear and\or Rikki & Vikki? For some reason I get the vibe you bought the $10 steam version of R&V did you not? I was under the impression you don't use original 7800 hardware. So sorry if I'm mistaken.

I have the 7800 version and the steam version of Rikki & Vikki, and I haven't gotten Bentley Bear yet.

[Hastor]

What's your end goal in reverse engineering the Watara Supervision TV module? I haven't even been able to find an NTSC one, and what I've seen is pricey. I'd love to see a replacement, but if this game didn't sell enough, I don't think a Watara accessory would top it. Any info on making our own would be cool too.

 

Which emulator did you make, is it publicly available? (Update: it's on your site, duh). Just got mine today. Definitely wasn't clear from seller pics how much dirt was between the plastic and screen, but it cleaned up nicely. Still waiting on my other carts but I got Snake until then! Love the speaker, this needs a synth cart!

Edited February 26, 2020 by Hastor

[Jaden (JRH)]

Isn't there a replacement for Pokey audio, though? The PokeyONE? I don't think destroying cartridges is necessary anymore.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, Jaden (JRH) said:

Isn't there a replacement for Pokey audio, though? The PokeyONE? I don't think destroying cartridges is necessary anymore.

There is yes. But the cost of the PokeyOne is more than pokey chips are from those that still sell them. Or at least for the average person $40 for the PokeyOne is a bit on the high price side to purchase.

[Jinks]

What about pokeymax?

[MrBeefy]

On 2/23/2020 at 6:04 PM, Theallknowingsause said:

I have the 7800 version and the steam version of Rikki & Vikki, and I haven't gotten Bentley Bear yet.

Bentley and R&V are easily the best 7800 games. IMO.

[TailChao]

19 hours ago, Hastor said:

What's your end goal in reverse engineering the Watara Supervision TV module? I haven't even been able to find an NTSC one, and what I've seen is pricey. I'd love to see a replacement, but if this game didn't sell enough, I don't think a Watara accessory would top it. Any info on making our own would be cool too.

Nothing commercial. My interest is in accurate emulation, documentation, and preservation - all of which the console lacks.

 

Regarding the TV-Link itself, the hardware isn't a true "accessory" - but an entire reimplementation of the SuperVision with colorized NTSC / PAL output instead of an LCD Controller. There's also a few other changes which are less interesting. Either way though, all the SuperVision plugged into the thing does is send over your button presses - the TV-Link is actually running the game software.

 

 

15 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

There is yes. But the cost of the PokeyOne is more than pokey chips are from those that still sell them. Or at least for the average person $40 for the PokeyOne is a bit on the high price side to purchase.

I think the prices for both the PokeyOne and PokeyMax are very reasonable for their intended purpose of replacing defective or broken Pokeys. But for new hardware, especially cartridges, using either doesn't make much sense - there's more capable audio generators available for far less.

Edited February 27, 2020 by TailChao

[Theallknowingsause]

3 minutes ago, TailChao said:

I think the prices for both the PokeyOne and PokeyMax are very reasonable for their intended purpose of replacing defective or broken Pokeys. But for new hardware, especially cartridges, using either doesn't make much sense - there's more capable audio generators available for far less.

That's kinda what I was saying, I think that people should figure out that the 7800 can use more then just the pokey chip for audio, but I think because that's the only special audio clip official 7800 games have used, coding for the pokey chip is much easier then finding a new chip and having to manually map out the new chip and what ever.

I think one day we should all agree to use 1 audio chip to exploit and get at the documentation to create the definitive 7800 audio chip.

[Swami]

17 hours ago, Jaden (JRH) said:

Isn't there a replacement for Pokey audio, though? The PokeyONE? I don't think destroying cartridges is necessary anymore.

 

16 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

There is yes. But the cost of the PokeyOne is more than pokey chips are from those that still sell them. Or at least for the average person $40 for the PokeyOne is a bit on the high price side to purchase.

I've got four copies of Ballblazer, so keep burning through those Ballblazers folks, I could use a second retirement fund.