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TailChao

Rikki & Vikki

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On 8/26/2020 at 4:15 PM, Shawn said:

When this game has sold out it's 500 copies there will be future "new" 7800 users who will have really missed out. That or have to pay out the ass for a copy on the secondary market. If anyone was on the fence about this title just buy it now before you end up having to pay someone double or triple the retail price in the future. We all know that is exactly what's gonna end up happening when it's sold out.

That is some great advice right here. The game is worth it.

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On 8/27/2020 at 10:07 AM, TailChao said:

- although after this run has sold out I'm stepping away from the scene out of necessity, so it's the usual "no promises" for now.

 

 

Make sure you plug your other projects.

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On 8/29/2020 at 9:05 AM, MrBeefy said:

Make sure you plug your other projects.

Sure, if they're Atari related I'll drop them off here. For everything else, there's MasterCard Twitter.

 

39 Copies left.

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So, after not having a working 7800 for several years after the power button on my old one failed (I can't solder much so I can't replace the switch), I finally got a new one a month ago or so, a s-video modded system from ebay.  It works great, except for perhaps not using the updated version of the mod I see mentioned here since audio levels are extremely low when compared to my old console, I need to turn the volume well up.  Oh well, that's not a big deal.

 

There is one problem though, I bought a copy of this game recently and I would say that I'm very glad to get this quite interesting-looking title before copies run out, but... it doesn't work at all, it boots to a black screen and stays that way.  This isn't some weird resolution issue, all other carts I have work first try if they are clean, including Tower Toppler.  This is my only 7800 homebrew, but the 2600 homebrew games I have work, and all original carts for the 8900 of course. I see mention of this game using a pin on the cart slot that no other game uses, but why would that one pin have a problem while all of the other ones are fine?  I can't see in the black plastic cover that covers the cart port pins really so I have no idea how I'd figure out what the problem is here, but I hope it can be figured out, I very much want to play the game...

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47 minutes ago, A Black Falcon said:

There is one problem though, I bought a copy of this game recently and I would say that I'm very glad to get this quite interesting-looking title before copies run out, but... it doesn't work at all, it boots to a black screen and stays that way.

Any issues like this call for activation of the warranty card's secret powers, please send an inquiry via email to our support address. You'll have the option for a refund if we're unable to get the game to work on your console, but we've yet to meet a 7800 that can't be coaxed into running it!

Edited by TailChao
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16 hours ago, hizzy said:

Are the Steam & 7800 versions identical? Thanks!

The differences are in price and aesthetic, the game content is identical.

 

Below is a full list from the thread's F.A.Q...

On 12/11/2018 at 9:20 AM, TailChao said:

Q : What are the differences between the Microsoft Windows and Atari 7800 versions?
A : They're mostly in price and aesthetic, the game content is identical. Here's a rundown

  • Microsoft Windows
    • Costs $9.99.
    • Progress and High Scores are saved.
    • Music is in Stereo.
    • Supports Steam Achievements.
    • Supports Performance Adjustments.
  • Atari 7800 ProSystem
    • Costs $59.99 plus shipping.
    • Includes a sturdy box, cartridge, and Misery Land tour guide with two complimentary tickets.
    • Progress and High Scores aren't saved.
    • Music is in Mono.

 

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On 8/31/2020 at 7:37 AM, TailChao said:

Sure, if they're Atari related I'll drop them off here. For everything else, there's MasterCard Twitter.

 

39 Copies left.

How about getting some (one?) of the Dev team to sign 10 copies (to be distributed randomly) in the last lot to get them to move more quickly?

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1 hour ago, davidcalgary29 said:

How about getting some (one?) of the Dev team to sign 10 copies (to be distributed randomly) in the last lot to get them to move more quickly?

If so, get ready for the "But why are you giving stragglers better copies than the people that were anxious to support you at the beginning?" type comments. Adding things later can cause more trouble than it's worth. Many companies have learned this when trying to offer last-minute pre-order discounts that can't be applied to existing pre-orders etc.

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40 minutes ago, Hastor said:

If so, get ready for the "But why are you giving stragglers better copies than the people that were anxious to support you at the beginning?" type comments. Adding things later can cause more trouble than it's worth. Many companies have learned this when trying to offer last-minute pre-order discounts that can't be applied to existing pre-orders etc.

And there's nothing stopping anyone from buying a second (or third) copy.

 

This I've learned from life (and from working in a job that attracts constant criticism from the public): you thank people for their comments, make your own decisions, and move on. :)

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I do not think they will have trouble "moving" the last copies..

Why do you think they need some sort of gimmick? 

 

 

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2 hours ago, davidcalgary29 said:

How about getting some (one?) of the Dev team to sign 10 copies (to be distributed randomly) in the last lot to get them to move more quickly?

I agree with @Hastor's outlook here. This doesn't really have meaning unless I can get signatures from the whole team, which is scattered across the United States and Tiido is in Estonia - It'd take multiple weeks just to get the signatures. Plus, some people won't want any sharpie scribbles on their box. I already had enough reservations about changing the label style during the run and think this sort of thing should be reserved for special or collector's editions - which we don't have anyway.

 

But I have been seeing requests for this sort of thing, or a fancy version in general, so it's definitely in the back of my head for whenever another game happens.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Jinks said:

I do not think they will have trouble "moving" the last copies..

Getting rid of them faster is nicer for me - pack 'n ship can eat a good chunk of the day. But yeah, I'm not really worried about it.

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I ordered Rikki & Vikki tonight, woohoo! 🥳 but then I got a bit worried about the shipping from the U.S. Has anyone ordered this to Europe lately? Obviously I'm ready to wait for something this good a long time, but I don't want to loose it completely.
There's a lot of really nice "homebrew" games nowadays for old systems, and a few of them have nice packaging and/or box art, but I must say Rikki & Vikki is exceptional in every sense! Both the finished physical product to the graphics to the music and the gameplay. 🎨 🤯 (I bought it on Steam earlier too to try it out). I've been drooling over it ever since it came out, it's definitely one of the most beautiful "homebrew" products ever made! :love:

I didn't know anything about the Atari 7800 but now I will have to get one when I can get the money needed. Actually it's always a lot of fun studying a new retro system. I'm looking to understand the most common graphic modes of it too.
Really beautiful hi-res graphics in Rikki & Vikki, I didn't manage to read through the whole thread yet, but I'd definitely be interested to know what kind of graphics tricks were used or if it was straight up a predifned mode on the A7800. (I read a little bit already https://sites.google.com/site/atari7800wiki/graphics-modes).

("Knight Guy" inspired me too and really nice with Atari 2600 backward compability, since I love its lively and fun homebrew scene and I don't have one yet).
Edited by Turbo Laser Lynx
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9 hours ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said:
I ordered Rikki & Vikki tonight, woohoo! 🥳 but then I got a bit worried about the shipping from the U.S. Has anyone ordered this to Europe lately? Obviously I'm ready to wait for something this good a long time, but I don't want to loose it completely.

I got mine when it first came out. No problems at all to the UK. Things can just take a while to get here. Expect a couple of weeks, if not more with the current situation. They tend to get here eventually. For what it's worth I just had something through from the US and it was just less than two weeks. That said I'm still waiting something from Japan that's coming on to three weeks now... I start to panic after a month.

Edited by juansolo
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18 hours ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said:
I ordered Rikki & Vikki tonight, woohoo! 🥳 but then I got a bit worried about the shipping from the U.S. Has anyone ordered this to Europe lately? Obviously I'm ready to wait for something this good a long time, but I don't want to loose it completely.

We (very fortunately) haven't lost a single order yet. There's been one or two which got stuck and then arrived after a significant delay, or were bounced back to our P.O. Box. - but they've all arrived eventually. However, yours is the first one heading to Moominvalley so I'm not sure what varieties of mischief could happen along the way.

 

 

18 hours ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said:
I didn't know anything about the Atari 7800 but now I will have to get one when I can get the money needed. Actually it's always a lot of fun studying a new retro system. I'm looking to understand the most common graphic modes of it too. Really beautiful hi-res graphics in Rikki & Vikki, I didn't manage to read through the whole thread yet, but I'd definitely be interested to know what kind of graphics tricks were used or if it was straight up a predifned mode on the A7800.

Rikki & Vikki runs entirely in Mode 320B, which is one of Maria's stock configurations. The differentiating factor is that it's the first released title on the hardware which separates Maria and Sally's paging through the use of a new mapper. This greatly simplifies resource management and allows for a much larger quantity of textures to be used onscreen, which is essential for the high resolution modes. It's comparable to what Nintendo was doing with the NES's MMC1, MMC3, etc.

 

There's not too many "tricks" used, we had to ship by a certain day and this limited the amount of experimentation or crazy effects - I'd describe the visuals moreso as being careful with what we could afford.

 

 

...ah, and 33 Copies left.

Edited by TailChao
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It’s very very variable depending on where it’s going through. Had something take six weeks to reach me from US to U.K. recently. I’m still waiting on something 2.5 months later! Other letters have taken under a week.

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Wow - I wasn't even watching this thread.  I just finally got around to repairing one of my 7800s and then playing through some of the library when I decided I should have a copy.  I got #513 and understand the run is almost sold out.  Good accidental timing on my part I suppose.

 

After playing for about 3 hours or so, I kinda want to discuss gameplay, but this doesn't seem like the thread to do it.  Maybe I'll start another . . .

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On 9/11/2020 at 6:57 PM, TailChao said:

We (very fortunately) haven't lost a single order yet. There's been one or two which got stuck and then arrived after a significant delay, or were bounced back to our P.O. Box. - but they've all arrived eventually. However, yours is the first one heading to Moominvalley so I'm not sure what varieties of mischief could happen along the way.

That's nice! Yeah it's a far away corner of the earth, Snufkin will bring it to me next spring when he returns from his travels and I wake up from my winter hibernation. :D 
 

Quote

Rikki & Vikki runs entirely in Mode 320B, which is one of Maria's stock configurations. The differentiating factor is that it's the first released title on the hardware which separates Maria and Sally's paging through the use of a new mapper. This greatly simplifies resource management and allows for a much larger quantity of textures to be used onscreen, which is essential for the high resolution modes. It's comparable to what Nintendo was doing with the NES's MMC1, MMC3, etc.

 

There's not too many "tricks" used, we had to ship by a certain day and this limited the amount of experimentation or crazy effects - I'd describe the visuals moreso as being careful with what we could afford.


Ahaa, that's really nifty! I don't know much about the Nes, so I wasn't aware of these kind of carts.

Btw. I checked up Mode 320B on randomterrain, and it says three colours + transparent, but I se four colors + transparent in all the R&V screenshots. Also I don't understand, it says characters should be 4 pixels wide in 320B, but R&V doesn't seem to have double vide pixels? 🤔 Well, you don't have to start educating me on Atari 7800 graphics modes here, I'll read more and ask around on the programming forum if I can't figure it out.

https://www.randomterrain.com/7800basic.html#graphics_modes

I'm not really a "graphics trick guy" anyway, working with the limitations of these old systems is most of the charm really. :D

Edited by Turbo Laser Lynx

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On 9/13/2020 at 12:07 PM, wongojack said:

After playing for about 3 hours or so, I kinda want to discuss gameplay, but this doesn't seem like the thread to do it.  Maybe I'll start another . . .

You can also write a full review on the case of an NEC PC-8801 VA3 and send it to the PenguiNet P.O. Box - I'd definitely read it! Of course, any thread is fine including this one ;) .

 

 

On 9/13/2020 at 4:15 PM, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

That's nice! Yeah it's a far away corner of the earth, Snufkin will bring it to me next spring when he returns from his travels and I wake up from my winter hibernation. :D

My inner Fillyjonk checked the address several times, stuck a PLE on the box, then cleaned the entire house because some fibers from the cardboard may have gotten loose and could still be floating somewhere in the air and I don't know if they're going to land on the table and I had just wiped that down because who knows when guests might show up and... oh goodness this is exhausting, I need to lie down.

 

If Snufkin doesn't get the package, the post obviously isn't following code.

 

 

On 9/13/2020 at 4:15 PM, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

Btw. I checked up Mode 320B on randomterrain, and it says three colours + transparent, but I se four colors + transparent in all the R&V screenshots. Also I don't understand, it says characters should be 4 pixels wide in 320B, but R&V doesn't seem to have double vide pixels? 🤔

Mode 320B uses two palettes of three colors + a transparent / backdrop color, so there's a total of seven colors. Some objects (particularly the characters) in Rikki & Vikki use two textures rendered on top of each other which gives the illusion of more colors per palette. This is fairly common in other platforms like the NES, GameBoy Color, and Neo Geo Pocket Color to get around their 2bpp sprite / tile limitations.

 

Generally though, the 7800's high resolution modes come with lots of asterisks in regard to what can be used where. So while they can look really crisp they're also somewhat convoluted to use.

Edited by TailChao
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On 9/15/2020 at 7:34 PM, TailChao said:

My inner Fillyjonk checked the address several times, stuck a PLE on the box, then cleaned the entire house because some fibers from the cardboard may have gotten loose and could still be floating somewhere in the air and I don't know if they're going to land on the table and I had just wiped that down because who knows when guests might show up and... oh goodness this is exhausting, I need to lie down.

Haha! :lol: Funniest thing yesterday is that as I'm looking out the window I see a fox trip along in the back yard! (I've very rarely seen them at all). I was screaming to the kids "A fox! A fox!" My computer club friend asked if it was a sign to buy Rikki & Vikki, I said I already did. :D I put some other retro stuff into circulation and got myself an Atari 7800 now too, woohoo!

 

Quote

Mode 320B uses two palettes of three colors + a transparent / backdrop color, so there's a total of seven colors. Some objects (particularly the characters) in Rikki & Vikki use two textures rendered on top of each other which gives the illusion of more colors per palette. This is fairly common in other platforms like the NES, GameBoy Color, and Neo Geo Pocket Color to get around their 2bpp sprite / tile limitations.

 

Generally though, the 7800's high resolution modes come with lots of asterisks in regard to what can be used where. So while they can look really crisp they're also somewhat convoluted to use.

Seven colors in hi-res is pretty great for an early-ish 8-bit system, but anyways I've come to realise that tech specs are secondary (although they're interesting) and "feeling is everything" when it comes to retro computing / gaming (at least for me). I've been reading about the various 7800 restrictions, and it seems like a really intriguing machine with much potential. Rikki & Vikki is obviously a good example of what's possible on it, if love and dedication is put into a game. I wouldn't have the patience to understand all the details properly so I'm happy 7800basic excists.

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On 9/17/2020 at 2:23 AM, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

Haha! :lol: Funniest thing yesterday is that as I'm looking out the window I see a fox trip along in the back yard! (I've very rarely seen them at all). I was screaming to the kids "A fox! A fox!" My computer club friend asked if it was a sign to buy Rikki & Vikki, I said I already did. :D I put some other retro stuff into circulation and got myself an Atari 7800 now too, woohoo!

Hmm, that friendly spirit animal may have intended that you seek out some other game on ancient hardware featuring foxes...

 

ac_loader.gif.2d4519ae82250185ec8e9f49a44d00c7.gif ac_menu.gif.ce8e1c6164f8512473daf1b8d880c1d8.gif

 

...

 

ac_add.gif.758b3d3b864ac1320da9488271648767.gif

 

...or maybe not.

But that 7800 definitely needs two controllers!

 

 

On 9/17/2020 at 2:23 AM, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

Seven colors in hi-res is pretty great for an early-ish 8-bit system, but anyways I've come to realise that tech specs are secondary (although they're interesting) and "feeling is everything" when it comes to retro computing / gaming (at least for me). I've been reading about the various 7800 restrictions, and it seems like a really intriguing machine with much potential. Rikki & Vikki is obviously a good example of what's possible on it, if love and dedication is put into a game. I wouldn't have the patience to understand all the details properly so I'm happy 7800basic excists.

Anything designed this far back has its architecture tightly woven with whatever aesthetics you'll be able get out of it, so they go together. But yeah - I think the 7800 still has a huge amount of unexplored potential in how to stylize graphics using Maria's various modes and playing to her strengths. 320A and 320B are most interesting to me, but something like Kero Blaster could translate well to 160A.

 

Plenty of things to try, and yes - having 7800basic available is a huge plus.

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23 hours ago, TailChao said:

Hmm, that friendly spirit animal may have intended that you seek out some other game on ancient hardware featuring foxes...

 

ac_loader.gif.2d4519ae82250185ec8e9f49a44d00c7.gif ac_menu.gif.ce8e1c6164f8512473daf1b8d880c1d8.gif

 

...

 

ac_add.gif.758b3d3b864ac1320da9488271648767.gif

 

...or maybe not.

It looks really nice, got to check it out. ^^

 

Quote

But that 7800 definitely needs two controllers!

I got one with two controllers. :) :thumbsup:
 

Quote

Anything designed this far back has its architecture tightly woven with whatever aesthetics you'll be able get out of it, so they go together. But yeah - I think the 7800 still has a huge amount of unexplored potential in how to stylize graphics using Maria's various modes and playing to her strengths. 320A and 320B are most interesting to me, but something like Kero Blaster could translate well to 160A.

 

Plenty of things to try, and yes - having 7800basic available is a huge plus.


Yeah, that's why I love the 8-bit systems / "8-bit era" the most, they're so unique. You can easily for example spot an Atari 2600 game, a C64 game or a ZX Spectrum game a mile away, even if you only have screenshots, because of their restricted (many times crazy) palettes, wide pixels and other graphics restrictions. That already gets more tricky in the 16-bit era even when you know the graphics restrictions of e.g. Amiga, Megadrive, Snes (although I love the 16-bit era too). Of course when you add sound and the hardware they're all kind of unique, but there's also the matter of clarity in design, "less is more" that's kind of enforced on 8-bitters.<3

Yeah, looking forward to what people will come up with on the 7800!
 

Edited by Turbo Laser Lynx

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34 minutes ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

It looks really nice, got to check it out. ^^

Hah, I was going for something both obscure and with little reason to play... but I guess the charm of Apple ][ graphics still won out.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Turbo Laser Lynx said:

Yeah, that's why I love the 8-bit systems / "8-bit era" the most, they're so unique. You can easily for example spot an Atari 2600 game, a C64 game or a ZX Spectrum game a mile away, even if you only have screenshots, because of their restricted (many times crazy) palettes, wide pixels and other graphics restrictions. That already gets more tricky in the 16-bit era even when you know the graphics restrictions of e.g. Amiga, Megadrive, Snes (although I love the 16-bit era too). Of course when you add sound and the hardware they're all kind of unique, but there's also the matter of clarity in design, "less is more" that's kind of enforced on 8-bitters.<3

Right, and even if two platforms were released in the same year they can give completely different aesthetics. I do think this continued through to the late 1990s, it just became less and less prominent as you described.

 

 

...oh right, 31 Copies left.

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22 minutes ago, TailChao said:

Right, and even if two platforms were released in the same year they can give completely different aesthetics. I do think this continued through to the late 1990s, it just became less and less prominent as you described.

What console do you think killed it?

I think the Dreamcast but the spirit of each console having different looking graphics continued with portable consoles up into the early 2010's imo

Edited by Theallknowingsause
Clarification

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