Atari 8-Bit as a Legitimate Business Machine

[luckybuck]

Yeah! Good idea Gunstar! ?

This, 80 column, 1 MB RAM, and some code form SpeedCalc will come close, what I have in mind up to 2030. An open source code for SynCalc 202x would be very cool, too. :-)))

https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=XEP80

 

[Mathy]

Hello Gunstar

 

2 hours ago, Gunstar said:

... the only thing we need now for SynCalc is support for software 80 column drivers like Omniview 80's or the ACE/80.

 

... the only thing we need now for SynCalc is support for software 80 column drivers.  Best thing would be if it would support hard- and software 80 columns.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Mathy

[Gunstar]

6 minutes ago, Mathy said:

Hello Gunstar

 

 

... the only thing we need now for SynCalc is support for software 80 column drivers.  Best thing would be if it would support hard- and software 80 columns.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Well, yes, both would be best, I agree, but at the moment I only care about software 80 column support as that is all I have or need. Eventually I will obtain a VBXE, and happily use it's hardware 80-colunm support, but I'm not buying it for that reason, and I won't ever be buying any hardware 80-column device if that is all it does, because with my system, software 80 columns works perfectly well for me and my needs, even better than I need. So since I'll only probably ever have a VBXE for one of my computers, I'll still want to use my perfectly acceptable software 80-columns on my other machine(s). And I think there are plenty of other SynCalc users who don't have hardware 80-column either, but would love to use SynCalc in 80-columns like me, and also only have software 80-column options whether they are pre-loaded software or in an OS, or they went with the cheaper, ACE/80 solution.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Gunstar

[Mathy]

Hello Gunstar

 

Your preference was already clear to me.  You prefer software 80 columns at this point in time and that's fine by me.  But if somebody is picking up the idea of added 80 columns support (or any other option of any other piece of hard- or software), I'd like him (or her) to not leave out other similar options.  Getting it done "while you're in there" usually is a faster way to getting it done than "OK, you've added option X, could you please look at it again and see if you can add option Y too".  And if one solution gives us both options, that's even better.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

[+Stephen]

11 minutes ago, Mathy said:

Hello Gunstar

 

Your preference was already clear to me.  You prefer software 80 columns at this point in time and that's fine by me.  But if somebody is picking up the idea of added 80 columns support (or any other option of any other piece of hard- or software), I'd like him (or her) to not leave out other similar options.  Getting it done "while you're in there" usually is a faster way to getting it done than "OK, you've added option X, could you please look at it again and see if you can add option Y too".  And if one solution gives us both options, that's even better.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

Correct.  And if the support is done properly, the software approach will automatically work when using the VBXE driver as well.  At this stage it's pointless to not support it given the work that has went into S_VBXE.SYS.  Write to the E: handler with that driver, and voila - it just works.

[+DjayBee]

7 hours ago, Gunstar said:

the only thing we need now for SynCalc is support for software 80 column drivers like Omniview 80's or the ACE/80. How feasible would this be?

Unfortunately Syncalc seems to not use E: or S: at all. Only K: is used for all input.

[Gunstar]

Well I guess that rules out 80-columns for SynCalc then, without a complete re-write. But I think I can live with 40-column screens now that I can use expanded memory from my upgrades, 180K discs and the CX85. Other than 80-columns which seems to be out of the question now, the only other thing that could make the situation better was if file versions of SynCalc (and all Syn-series apps) could be made to load from a HDD partition. But I'm still an avid floppy drive user, so I can live without that too, if I have to.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Gunstar

[luckybuck]

But that is exactly what DjayBee has done: SynCalc as file:

 

Never give up, never surrender, there will come a day, the dream will come true.

 

Alexa, tell Siri to reverse engineer the source code for SynCalc...

[+DjayBee]

10 hours ago, luckybuck said:

But that is exactly what DjayBee has done: SynCalc as file:

 

Not really, because you omitted the most important part of Gunstar's posting:

 

16 hours ago, Gunstar said:

made to load from a HDD partition.

 

This is the big issue, because we currently must use DOS 2.0 due to Syncalc's patching of DOS's code with own subroutines which in turn it calls at these patched addresses.

I guess that moving these patches elsewhere would be quite feasible, but then you have to find and replace each and every call to these subroutines inside Syncalc.

[Gunstar]

So, @DjayBee, it wouldn't work if everything on the ATR image screen shot above were to be put into it's own sub-folder and run from there with MyDOS or even SDX since it can read DOS 2 files? Does it still have to be loaded from D1: or could you get it booted from D2: on floppy through DOS 2 if it was already loaded up? Or is it that because this is a special hacked version of DOS 2 on the ATR make it incompatible in some way with a standard DOS 2? If so, what about using the patched version of DOS 2 on the ATR loaded previously, could SynCalc then be selected and run from another floppy like D2: from the DOS menu? I'm just spit-balling to see if there's a way around or to "trick" the computer/software into working now that you at least have a file version on floppy that can be viewed with DOS?

[+DjayBee]

34 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

Does it still have to be loaded from D1: or could you get it booted from D2: on floppy through DOS 2 if it was already loaded up?

You can load it from whatever drive you want, as long you are using the patched DOS 2.0 on the disk.

 

36 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

If so, what about using the patched version of DOS 2 on the ATR loaded previously, could SynCalc then be selected and run from another floppy like D2: from the DOS menu?

This will work, but what would be the advantage over having the SYNCALC.XEX on the same disk as DOS.SYS?

 

Syncalc literally replaces subroutines of DOS (IIRC NOTE, POINT, save DOS and the code which handles DOS2's burst mode) with own code that has nothing to do with DOS' own functionality. To use a different DOS, this DOS would need to have replaceable code at the exact same RAM locations as DOS 2.0.

I can only guess that @MikeSilva tried to save a few hundred bytes of valuable RAM this way.

If you go to my first posting in the other thread, you will find attached files with source code of the original DOS2 and the modified one of Syncalc. Diff these two files and you can see the differences.

[Gunstar]

@DjayBee

 

The only point in asking about loading the modified DOS and SynCalc from two different drives is merely taking stock of what can be done, seemingly useless or not, in my "quest" to think of a way to make things work in a way I want, even in ways they weren't designed to do so. I'm a avid "out of the box" thinker, and have made software and hardware work together in ways they weren't designed or programmed to work before. And I am attempting to think something up here that I can make work. The more info I have the better chance I can come up with something that works for me.

 

For one example, I have MyIDE II, which was originally incompatible with SDX and only worked with MyDOS. Being an SDX user, as soon as FJC came up with the driver to use SDX with MyIDE II, I set up my 1200XL system to take advantage as it allowed me to use an internal OS of my choice, instead of MyBIOS and the DOS I prefer. But, I also wanted to be able to use OSS languages like Basic XE, Mac/65 and Action! with my MyIDE II and SDX HDD setup, but the MyIDE II cart only allows one simulated cart at a time, so I use SDX or an OSS language from it's flashrom, but not both. Also, I have Dropcheck's Super SDX cart w/RTC and I wanted the RTC which I didn't have with SDX on MyIDE II. But I figured out a way to use my SSDX cartridge with MyIDE II piggy-backed and then the OSS language on MyIDE II flashrom and all work together. It was purely a procedural thing: I first have my Super SDX cart set to "off," as unlike the normal SDX cart, it has an both on-off and reset buttons on it. Then I turn on the computer which boots to the MyIDE II menu where you choose to enter MyBIOS or load from the FAT partition, etc. I then load the OSS cart into flashrom. I then turn on the SSDX cart, push the reset button on it, and then I use a "cold reset" option that the APE WARP+ OS I like has, which cold boots the entire system, but since the computer wasn't shut off, the OSS language rom is still in the active flashrom memory of MyIDE II, and SDX boots and I can use it with the APT and FAT partions on MyIDE II, with my OS of choice instead of MyBIOS, and an OSS language through SDX too!

 

So, not being a programmer, but knowing hardware and how the system works, I figured a way to make things work together that aren't suppose too. I hope I can come up with some trick or procedure to do the same with SynCalc here. That's my current thinking process. Maybe it's impossible, but that was told to me by some community "experts," among them FJC and Mr. Atari (I think that's his AA handle) who is the man behind MyBIOS and by Steve at Atarimax when I was trying to get MyIDE II and SDX and OSS language and HDD all working harmoniously together too, and yet I figured it out on my own and succeeded. I've come up with solutions many a time in this way for different things with my Atari's.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Gunstar

[gilsaluki]

On 5/11/2021 at 2:54 PM, DjayBee said:

Don't be so pessimistic. ?

 

Copy the attached file to my Syncalc 85 ATR.

Rename the AUTORUN.SYS (Syncalc 85) to something different.

Boot the disk, load CX3720.XEX, load Syncalc and keep your fingers crossed. ?

I have no CX85 and therefore cannot test it, but at least it does not crash Syncalc.

 

CX3720.xex 115 B · 6 downloads

 

If it works and I receive some more feedback on my file version of Syncalc, I will incorporate it in the loader.

Well, did it work with anyone's CX85? 

[+DjayBee]

1 hour ago, gilsaluki said:

Well, did it work with anyone's CX85? 

It worked for luckybuck and as far as I understood for Gunstar as well.

[Gunstar]

I haven't gotten around to trying it yet, and told @gilsaluki that I'd try it today. I've only gotten 'Your Personal Net Worth' to successfully load with the Reeve Key driver/handler and I tried it with SynCalc and it didn't work so that, which I think has all pretty much been covered by me in this thread so far. I have the files and the ATR you guys posted here and will try them today or this weekend (I'm in the middle of a home improvement project atm, which is why this all stalled for me). I also haven't tried using VisaCalc with the CX85 Master disk when I found out it I could, because right after that, from my perspective, you, @DjayBee attached the files for SynCalc and 180K disks and then with the CX85 handler, all before I had to try any of it yet, and I've no interest in VisiCalc as soon as you gave us the CX85 handler for SynCalc.

[luckybuck]

Have created an ATR, please see below. In there, Visicalc is running with the CX85...

SpeedCalc & SpeedCalc enhanced, I did not tested, yet.

Just tested in emulator. Real hardware at the Fujiama 2021 in Sep.

However, we have the source code, therefore, there will be a solution!

Visicalc 1.74a, SpeedCalc, CX85, Reeve.atr

Edited May 14, 2021 by luckybuck

[gilsaluki]

On 5/14/2021 at 3:50 PM, luckybuck said:

n there, Visicalc is running with the CX85..

I finally figured my situation out.  I was able to finally get a CX85 to work.  I had a new in the box CX85 and it works with all the programs.  The thing that keep me going in circles is, my original (problem child) CX85 would work with Atari's Keypad test routine, all keys registered on screen.  It's a short Basic routine found in the CX85 Repair Manual.  Anyway, it also worked with a lot of KE-softs' games.  He programmed a lot of his games to be tablet and keypad enabled.  Who would want to play a platformer with a keypad is beyond me, but the keypad DID work.  Today, I finally retrieved my never-used CX85 from my Bookkeeper box.  It works with all programs, Syncalc, Visicalc, Speedcalc (Compute!), Speedscript Word Processor, and yes Scarborough's Your Personal Net Worth using ReeveKey.  

[luckybuck]

Great! And thanks for testing...! :-)))

You mean the: 'atari_cx85_field_service_manual_screen.pdf' from here:

https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=AtariCX85

?

and this BASIC program:

?

[gilsaluki]

18 hours ago, luckybuck said:

Great! And thanks for testing...! :-)))

You mean the: 'atari_cx85_field_service_manual_screen.pdf' from here:

https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=AtariCX85

?

and this BASIC program:

?

YES!

[_The Doctor__]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:57 AM, DjayBee said:

 

Not really, because you omitted the most important part of Gunstar's posting:

 

 

This is the big issue, because we currently must use DOS 2.0 due to Syncalc's patching of DOS's code with own subroutines which in turn it calls at these patched addresses.

I guess that moving these patches elsewhere would be quite feasible, but then you have to find and replace each and every call to these subroutines inside Syncalc.

but what you may have done is made it so it can be on the image section of most hard drive solutions and have it work... now to what size image disk that may be is to be discovered but I see you've licked a great deal of the memory mystery and more than likely the drive size limit may be discovered or tweaked... it may not be agnostic and work on whatever 32 meg partition you have but it's getting closer everyday.

Edited June 11, 2021 by _The Doctor__