Atari Flashback and Tempest 4K: Bad without proper controls?

[tripletopper]

I just tried Tempest 4000 for the Xbox One, and I think the controls are awful, but only on "round" levels. Sometimes I press left to go right when stopped. Also I thought a more appropriate control is to use the analog stick as a radial control. Just roll the left stick to indicate the position along the orbit where you are, not left to go anticlockwise, right to go clockwise. You got analog controls. Why not use them?

 

For the modern systems, why isn’t there a 2600-> PS4 and a 2600->X1. They obviously make them for PC. You need them for Paddles, Trackballs, Spinners, Indy 500 controller, and Keypad (maybe, but a USB numeric would work too).

 

Since Nintendo makes Labo kits, why not Atari make a plastic Labo-like Joycon attachment.

 

First Paddle games already work with Switch Wheel. If you keep both hands on the wheel, there is a natural limit to how far clockwise and anticlockwise you can rotate it.

 

Second for Trackball games, a Joycon could be placed in a hamster ball for trackball games, and have radio controller manaul button pressers for the up to 6 buttons on the Single Joycon.

 

Third, a similar setup, except with a cylinder for Major Havok.

 

Fourth, a joycon could be put in a similar device with a wheel that you spin.

 

Finally, for the light gun games, a visible light "camera gun" could be used to literally shoot the targets, instead of using a cursor that centers automatically.

 

Do other people agree with me, that Atari controls on modern systems are not well thought out with the default controllers? The analog stick does like to center, and I think that hurts most Atari analog games, especially paddle games.

[negative1]

Discussion about the controls for flashback here:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/253262-atari-flashback-classics-for-the-xb1ps4/page-22?do=findComment&comment=4174745

 

later

-1

[ubersaurus]

The short answer is that it's such a niche market and number of games that use them, it's not likely to be worth the money to produce them with the licensing needed to get them to work on those consoles. And then most likely you'd have to go back and patch the games to recognize those specialized controllers, which would also cost money.

[JeffVav]

Atari Flashback Classics uses the touchscreen to simulate trackballs and spinners/rollers, complete with inertia.

[Atariboy]

For the modern systems, why isn’t there a 2600-> PS4 and a 2600->X1. They obviously make them for PC. You need them for Paddles, Trackballs, Spinners, Indy 500 controller, and Keypad (maybe, but a USB numeric would work too).

 

Hopefully Jeff can correct me if I'm mistaken, but Atari Anthology back 15 years ago or so almost had USB Stelladapter support. Been a long time since those threads though, so it may have been Klove talking about Activision Anthology instead.

 

Probably was going to be PS2 exclusive feature I assume, since the Xbox controller ports, while USB, were of a proprietary physical design. And I imagine it probably would've only supported the joystick, but it would've been neat to see happen had time constraints allowed.

 

I'd of loved to have seen the Switch version support something like this, since it's not as locked down as the competition is.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Atariboy

[tripletopper]

 

Hopefully Jeff can correct me if I'm mistaken, but Atari Anthology back 15 years ago or so almost had USB Stelladapter support. Been a long time since those threads though, so it may have been Klove talking about Activision Anthology instead.

 

Probably was going to be PS2 exclusive feature I assume, since the Xbox controller ports, while USB, were of a proprietary physical design. And I imagine it probably would've only supported the joystick, but it would've been neat to see happen had time constraints allowed.

 

I'd of loved to have seen the Switch version support something like this, since it's not as locked down as the competition is.

 

 

Isn’t the whole point of Stelladapter controls is to accept existing controls that are not easily replicable with modern control schemes, like trackballs, rollers, spinners, keypads, and paddles. Most fo the Atari games used bizarre controllers by today’s standards. A joystick and one button is replicable with a standard pad, and Street Fighter players use digital sticks, but doesn’t the d-pad serve the same function.

 

The analog pad is not the same. Don’t some of the games, like Missile Command and Super Breakout RELY on the factt he joystick doesn’t center.

 

Trust me, playing Warlords and Breakout with a modern thumbstick in "absolute mode" is TIRING and frustratingly inaccurate.

 

And the switch can have a Labo trackball, roller, and spinner combo pack, and the wheel acts likes a true paddle.

[Tempest Nut]

I just tried Tempest 4000 for the Xbox One, and I think the controls are awful, but only on "round" levels. Sometimes I press left to go right when stopped. Also I thought a more appropriate control is to use the analog stick as a radial control. Just roll the left stick to indicate the position along the orbit where you are, not left to go anticlockwise, right to go clockwise. You got analog controls. Why not use them?

 

For the modern systems, why isn’t there a 2600-> PS4 and a 2600->X1. They obviously make them for PC. You need them for Paddles, Trackballs, Spinners, Indy 500 controller, and Keypad (maybe, but a USB numeric would work too).

 

Since Nintendo makes Labo kits, why not Atari make a plastic Labo-like Joycon attachment.

 

First Paddle games already work with Switch Wheel. If you keep both hands on the wheel, there is a natural limit to how far clockwise and anticlockwise you can rotate it.

 

Second for Trackball games, a Joycon could be placed in a hamster ball for trackball games, and have radio controller manaul button pressers for the up to 6 buttons on the Single Joycon.

 

Third, a similar setup, except with a cylinder for Major Havok.

 

Fourth, a joycon could be put in a similar device with a wheel that you spin.

 

Finally, for the light gun games, a visible light "camera gun" could be used to literally shoot the targets, instead of using a cursor that centers automatically.

 

Do other people agree with me, that Atari controls on modern systems are not well thought out with the default controllers? The analog stick does like to center, and I think that hurts most Atari analog games, especially paddle games.

You can build your own USB rotary controller that will look like a USB mouse and a USB keyboard to the Xbox one if I'm not mistaken, It does to windows so I'd think it would to the Xbox one?

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Tempest Nut

[Tempest Nut]

I have a modded Tempest4000.exe file that someone hacked for mouse & USB spinner support AND when using a mouse or USB spinner the fake inertia is disabled, It works with windows 7 and 10.

To anyone who wants it just message me and I'll email it to you and I'll make sure it works right on your computer but you'll need an "outlook" or "hotmail" email for me to send it to...

[Forrest]

I agree - the Xbox One controller doesn't do a good job playing Tempest 4000. I see Microsoft released an Xbox system update, allowing the use of USB mice and keyboards to be used with the Xbox One. I plugged in a Logitech Trackman Marble into my Xbox One, but it didn't work with Tempest 4000. I suspect a Tempest 4000 patch is needed.

[Tempest Nut]

Yes, None of the official Atari releases of TK4 have native support for mice or spinners enabled but my hacked version of the program show that it can...

[Forrest]

Tempest Nut,

Thanks for your hard work. There's a video posted of Yak playing Tempest 4K with a Logitech Trackman Marble before the game was released. I think I saw this video on Llamasoft's web site. It's not clear from the video if this was the PC version or XBox One. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Tempest Nut]

It was the PC...

[tripletopper]

Atari always used the best controlled that fit the game. These are specialty contollers, but are in more common use in the Atari universe. You can't play a decent console copy of Marble Madness (I know that's Atari Games which equals Midway) today thanks the lack of a proper control.

 

Another funny thing is that Paddles and 5200 analog stick games were designed to work best with NO autocentering. The auto center ruins most Atari-style paddle and flight yolk games, which is what a 5200 controller electronically is, a flight yolk that doesn't center.

 

That's why I heard the 5200 version of Star Wars the Arcade Game is WAY better than the Colecovision in terms of arcade feel. You can tell i the trench scene. In the arcade, on harder levels you have to quickly, yet precisely yank the controller fast to dodge the catwalks and fireballs. The Colecoviosion version seems slower, intentionally so, to accommodate the digital controllers.

 

Finally if you can precisely dial an XY location, you'd get to your targets faster in Missile Command with the stick than with the Trackball, but the trackball is easier to guide, stop on a dime, and time. Pick your poison.

 

Personally I'm enough of a fan of Atari games, where having the right controller is worth it vs playing a crippled version of the classics.

 

Wouldn't it be easy to have pre-built Atari controller molds, and use the lelctronics in the oycon as a wii mote to give the accruate playthrough. You save $20 vs the Ps4 and One and get more authentic controls for the $20 you save.

 

By the way I tested a Stelladapter and it doesn't work on Xbox One. I've got working Atari controllers, why not use them?

 

Plus the controller can be remade as universal 2600/modern controllers, and then use authorized stelladapters to interface with the consoles.

 

it's sort of like Skylanders. The toys were designed so you don't have to make individual toys for each console, and Konami got all the money on the toys which unlock features in the game. Brilliant marketing move. Way to avoid the license. 2600 controllers can be the new, more practical Skylanders.

[tripletopper]

...

 

Plus the controller can be remade as universal 2600/modern controllers, and then use authorized stelladapters to interface with the consoles.

 

it's sort of like Skylanders. The toys were designed so you don't have to make individual toys for each console, and Konami got all the money on the toys which unlock features in the game. Brilliant marketing move. Way to avoid the license. 2600 controllers can be the new, more practical Skylanders.

 

 

I’m just wondering. That’s a way Atari can make controllers for all markets. The original 2600/5200/7800/Jaguar, the Atari 10400 ( I refuse to call it the VCS when there was already a VCS, It’s just as absurd as Xbox calling their THIRD system the "Xbox One" when usually the first system is usually implied by that name. Now I have to call the real Xbox One, "the Xbox Prime". By the way, t’s pronounced "one-oh-four hundred" like "twenty-six hundred", etc...), The Pc Market, the Mac Market, the iPHone Market, the ndrid Market, the PS4 market, the Xbox One market, and the Swtich market.

 

All they have to do is make controllers for the "native Atari market" so Atari can make 2600 compatible digital joysticks, non-centering 5200 sticks, paddles, trackballs, spinners, rollers, and not have to designate them for a particular market. Then they can sell separate "Stelladapter" for the Atari 10400, PS4, Xbox One, Switch, iOS, Android, PC and Mac, and pay any licensing fees for the the console maker for the adapter ONLY, and then all the controllers to whatever market they want because they are "Atari standard".

 

It’s exactly like Skylanders. Konami makes all the money off Skylanders toys, and there’s no licensing issues about making separate PS and Xbox and Nintendo versions of Skylanders Toys, There are only 2 things that are licensed, the original game, and the interface to make the toys unlock parts of the game.

 

Using that similar model, the adapters give Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft their licensing money, Atari can make all the money off making atari controllers that can be use for real old Ataris, the New Atari, and any of the other consoles they deal with, without dedicating a certain percentage to each market. This is more flexible.

 

It’s exactly the Skylanders model, but it’s more practical than figurines that unlock content within a game. No need to guess how many to make for the Retro Atari market, the 10400 market, , the PS4 market, the Xbox One market, or the Switch market. The only thing you have to guess as far as that’s concerned is for the Stelladapters for those consoles.

 

Heck, maybe Midway Games (now WB Games) can license the trackball for their Marble Madness game and make one that works exactly as intended form the Arcade No more 8 ways or turbo buttons,

 

Finally, if you’re going to do it, do it right, make them ambidextrous. 2600 style joystick is simple, insert a lefty adapter A in there, which rotates the directions 90 degrees. For the trackballl, roller, and spinner, use lefty adapter B, which flips the direction of the controller 180 degrees. For a paddle, use a two button model where you hold the paddles by the thumb and index finger button, and make a switch for one button games, (By the way, I don’t know whether Atari considers the thumb actuation canonical, or the index finger actuation canonical as the main button for the paddle, but in case anyone makes a 2 button paddle game, a switch for AB or BA would be nice.)

 

Since we’re making the paddle have 2 buttons to think about the future, make an 8 button perfectly rectangular layout for the trackball, roller and spinner would be nice so that plenty of future games using these controllers can be made in the future. Or use the layout I suggest in 56ok.org/Ambidextrous/index.htm for my ambidextrous joystick which contours nicely for both left hand and right hand play.

 

And finally, maybe retro system adapters for Astrocade-Wii U would be nice too for the joystick with 9 buttons can appeal to fight game markets. make it with that many buttons and it can be made for Retro systems.