S-Video bullying of composite. :)

[seastalker]

I've collected classic hardware computers & consoles to run software on the original machines, and many CRTs as that too is part of the fun. Has anyone else had this odd S-Video connection issue with a CRT?

 

If a S-Video cable is plugged in to the tv, EVEN IF the other end of the cable is not connected, the tv ignores the composite video input signal.

 

CRT is bulky and I don't want to perversely smoosh my face on it while giving it a blind 'reach around' to swap cable connects. I also don't wish to wear out the jacks from swapping. So, I'm running quality cables from ALL rear ports (RF, RCA Red White Yellow stereo audio composite video AND S-Video) to simple gender converters (except RF) to essentially migrate the rear ports to easy access on the floor in the front. Though my new flat panel has component in, I want to run my gear on the CRT tv which tops out at S-Video (no Component). I have cables and conversions to get the best video out of my original hardware as best as I can, one at a time.

 

Problem: If I plug my UAV modded Atari 800xl or N64 in for S-Video, all is fine. The consoles NOT yet upgraded beyond Composite video don't show up on the screen unless I unplug the S-video cable from the back of the tv. Doesn't matter if I use a AV hub to toggle video or even plug a console directly to the tv. I was hoping the tv would know to display composite when that was plugged and S-Video when THAT source was given. There is no tv menu selection to toggle WHICH of the two video inputs (like VIDEO 1 / VIDEO 2) you want. RF is fine when you hit the TV/video toggle to then go to channel 3 or 4. This happens on multiple CRT tvs I have that max out with S-Video as best video with no component or digital. It defeats the purpose of after market video switches if I STILL have to unplug the S-video cable from the back of the tv each time I want composite.

 

Is this a shortcut CRT manufactures used without a solution or is there an adapter that can shunt the s-video cable with a switch? I know you can't draw blood from a stone, but I'm ok with outputting ALL on the S-video signal even if composite still looks like composite.

 

Any advice on this problem would be so greatly appreciated so I can get the best out of my old CRTs without losing quality from lag or too many middle-men adapters.

[Schizophretard]

That is normal behavior. What I do is use SVHS VCRs. Since they output with S-Video you can put composite or even RF in to the SVHS VCR to output in S-Video. It might just move your mess of wires from the TV to the VCR but at least there would be only one S-Video cable hooked into the TV.

[derFunkenstein]

Oh that's weird. On any S-video-equipped CRT I owned back in The Day, S-video was a separate input. Then again, I never owned anything particularly nice. A parade of Sanyo and Toshiba, mostly.

[mr_me]

On my trinitron, the s-video and composite inputs are considered a single video input, so that is normal. However, I don't have to unplug s-video for composite to work. As long as the s-video device is off and not sending a signal, composite video works.

[seastalker]

This happens on my Sony and JVC. The Sony is a trinitron, but likely an early one.

 

Schizophretard, I have a VHS/Bluray combo and a VHS/DVD recorder, BOTH Panasonic. May have to hook them up to see if the problem can be resolved. What is your make/model of SVHS? This issue seems like an easily avoidable problem is the makers planned better.

 

I found this amazon link for a host of gender adapters: https://amzn.to/2QUc3Ct

 

Still, The price to buy a lot of composite/SVHS adapters would be much better remedied by plugging a video switcher into a VCR. How's your lag?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Yeap I have an old JVC CRT I've used for color calibrating 2600s and 7800s. It does the same thing in that if the s-video is plugged in, then it only will see an s-video signal. Like was stated the s-video and composite are sharing the same input and the s-video will take priority if a cable is plugged into it. Not sure how the TV knows unless it is able to detect some resistance off that input when the cable is plugged in. Luckily, there is also a front composite only input and so I can use that for composite as AV2 and use the s-video by itself on the back as AV2.

[Schizophretard]

This happens on my Sony and JVC. The Sony is a trinitron, but likely an early one.

 

Schizophretard, I have a VHS/Bluray combo and a VHS/DVD recorder, BOTH Panasonic. May have to hook them up to see if the problem can be resolved. What is your make/model of SVHS? This issue seems like an easily avoidable problem is the makers planned better.

 

I found this amazon link for a host of gender adapters: https://amzn.to/2QUc3Ct

 

Still, The price to buy a lot of composite/SVHS adapters would be much better remedied by plugging a video switcher into a VCR. How's your lag?

 

I doubt those combos will work. The VHS sides are still just ordinary VHS with the connections separate from the DVD side.

 

I have 4 SVHS VCRs. I don't think the model you get would matter much. It is just like how any VHS VCR with composite out can output RF through the composite output. It is the same thing with SVHS VCRs but both RF and composite can output through S-Video. I think the only feature you would have to check is if the model you are looking at has more than one input like Video 1 and Video 2 to switch with the VCR remote between S-Video and Composite. If you don't plan on using it for tapes I would avoid expensive professional models.

 

As far as I can tell there is no lag(light guns work) and can't think of any reason there would be. To my understanding I don't think there is anything processing or anything like that to introduce lag. It is more like the video is going straight through with maybe comb filters for video separation.

[seastalker]

Thank you all for the great answers. I'll check my VHS players (one is BluRay/VHS believe it or not!) to find a candidate and if not there I'll seek out a nice new one. Sometimes VHS is great for a retro spin.

[tripletopper]

Here’s an interesting thing. It looks like S-Video and COmposite video are interconvertable. Radio Shack COmposite+S-Video switchboxes, both powered AND unpowered had a passive circuit whihcdraws its strength from signal power. You can plug in an S-Video in one input, a composite in another. Then output to S-Video ONLY. The S-Video will be in S-Video Quality, and the Composite will be converted to an S-Video signal. The conversion is as good as the composite, just watch out for bent pins that can make it balck and white.

 

Also if your CRT accepts S-Video but your PVR/Game Streaming card accepts only Composite, then the device can reverse convert to Composite quality back into the Streamer.

 

Heck, plug a VCR and get RF through that VHF/UHF NTSC tuner and output via Composite.

 

Also to minimize ping, you should Y-split your signal before a TV processes it. But in order to do that, you ned to power boost the signal with a power boost of RCA and S-Vdieo inputs> When you split a signal, you drain power by splitting unless you add power. I can get it where I can stream in sync with my commentary, and get a zero-pin TV signal to my CRT TV.

 

Finally one last question. I’ve had weird problems recording Video game footage on Beta at first, and VHS later.

 

In Beta, the footage looks right at regular speed, but betascan it and it’s a black or blue screen, depending on what your TV does at blank.

 

On VHS I don’t get ANY picture at normal playback speed, EXCEPT if I scan through it.

 

Does it have anything to do with the slight differences between either VCR and game frames/second and/or 240p vs 480i resolution

[seastalker]

After some experimenting I came to some conclusions:

 

The biggest: This issue is actually VERY irritating and seems so easy to have never been.

 

The tv menu has no selection switching because as said above, it considers it the same video input. The rear jack says "OVER" in between ports to indicate that it will always prefer S-Video over composite. It should not have been made to ignore the composite when S-Video port merely has a cable plugged in without signal. As mr_me confirmed his tv doesn't have this problem, the technology was there to avoid this.

 

I do have some solutions though: First, if the tv isn't free off the road and you are buying one, look for that word 'OVER' before opting to buy it. A TV with component inputs and FRONT jacks is even better.

 

The S-VHS route: One of my Panasonic players is not S-VHS, but it is a VHS/DVD Player/Recorder with a S-Video output that can switch the composite input to display out through it. S-VHS players are harder to find in shops or get pricey to buy online, it takes up space, and a simple smaller device should exist. My initial joy thinking the problem was solved introduced unacceptable controller lag.

 

I thought my cable lengths were too long, but direct connection to the tv and it was gone. I then tried the same cables direct from console to a simple video switcher like trippletopper mentioned and the lag was gone, but the original problem of composite over S-video remained. SO, to finally FIX this mess (hopefully), I though about finding a BIDIRECTIONAL S-Video to RCA adapter like seen here: https://www.cmple.com/learn/s-video-to-rca-adapters-that-deliver-every-time

 

Be wary of the converters with a six inch wire between them as many report they are not bi-directional. Also watch out for gender:

 

1. My 4 port video switcher will have only S-Video/RCA Stereo Audio out directly to the TV. Any consoles with S-Video cables will plug normally into an input on the switcher, and for my composite only systems, I will use male S-video to female RCA adapters to plug into the switcher's S-Video ports with the consoles' composite leads plugged into the adapter.

 

2. If you don't have a switcher (like on my OTHER setup), Run decent length male/male audio and S-Video cables from the rear to somewhere in front you have easy access to. For composite hookup systems, get a FEMALE S-Video version of the one above. The RCA end of the adapter can be either gender: male unless your console connects with it's own cable ending in male leads but double female Red White Yellow converters exist. You MAY optionally want a bi-directional S-Video male/female converter If your console leads end in male S-Video.

 

I will update everyone with lag and video quality tests when my new adapters arrive.

[Austin]

My Trinitron from 2002 has the issue where composite overrides the S-Video on the rear input. The solution is to simply not use composite on that port. This set has two ports for composite, so if I have a composite switch box I want to run into the TV, then I just use the front port on the TV instead of the one on the back.