6BQ5 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I'm not sure what came over me but I decided tonight was a good enough night as any to open up my 1040 STe. That means it's time to upgrade the RAM from 1 MB to 4 MB and install new TOS. Where is a good place to get TOS 2.06 and 4 sticks of 1 MB RAM? I understand upgrading TOS will require some resistor jumpers. Opening it up was pretty easy. No hitches or glicthes. Since I have everything open what else can I easily upgrade? Oh, and my DMA chip is "good". It is stamped C398739-001. Most websites seem to ID that as "good. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Normally no need to change jumper settings when replace TOS in STE. I can recommend that go on switchable TOS - so having multiple versions instead 2.06. Which is known as not much compatible with diverse SW, TOS switch is very simple, and prices of EPROM chips with 4x capacity (4Mbit) are not much higher than single (1Mbit). So can have 2.06, 1.62 and some custom, modded TOS versions. Like this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285930-improved-atari-tos-versions-available/ That would be more 'new TOS' than 2.06 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6BQ5 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 I'm a little confused. Can you help explain how to switch between different TOS versions? Do I install one set of ROM chips with multiple TOS versions and use software to switch between them? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Simplest and most reliable way is to use mechanic switch(es) . So, for 4 TOS versions you need 2 switches - that has 4 combinations. 2 switches set low or high on 2 top address lines of 2 EPROMs - parallel connected, of course. What would be A17 and A18 pins of EPROMs. http://atari.8bitchip.info/flashest.php Of course, may use some other type of switch. It's important that it gives binary output on proper number of pins. What is 2 for 4 TOS versions. Here is solution with 4 buttons, which directly select 1 of 4 OS versions: http://8bitchip.info/zx48/romsw.htm That's what I done for Sinclair Spectrum back in last Century. And it can be switched with SW too - simple write to specific address . I think that it could be fine solution for Atari people too . Only minor modifications needed. But it needs wiring at least some 10 lines in computer, mounting small board with 4 LEDs and buttons somewhere on top of case ... Well, if someone like idea, let me know, I can arrange producing boards ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 That's my plan on the Mega STE, the 2 switch, 4 tos rom mod available at http://atari4ever.free.fr/(under TOS mods, at the bottom). Hopefully PLM will have my modded TOS image done soon so I can get it all going, it's the last part of my upgrades on that machine for now. I'm planning on Stock 2.06, his modded 1.62, and EmuTOS. Not sure about the 4th slot yet though, possibly stock 1.62? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6BQ5 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Wires and switches and soldering ... oh, my! That's probably a bit much for me. I was hoping for a simple "plug and play" solution. Then again, nothing is simple ... right? Maybe my first step will be to simply try buying TOS 2.06 ROMS from eBay and plug them in. Let's see what happens. I searched for "30 pin simm 4x1mb" on eBay. Lots of results. How well would these work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-1MB-30-Pin-3-chip-Parity-70ns-FPM-1Mx9-Memory-SIMMs-4MB-RAM-Apple-Mac-PC/131905925586?hash=item1eb634b1d2:g:83oAAOSw0UdXrOn9:sc:USPSFirstClass!89423!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Exxos makes a dual tos board for the 1040STE machines, pretty much plug and play unless you have to change the zero-ohm resistor jumpers near the ROM sockets. Some STE machines came with 28 pin roms, I think it was the earlier machines though I'm not 100% sure on that (my 1040STE had French roms in it when I got it, 28 pin so I DID have to fix the jumpers on mine). Wires and switches and soldering ... oh, my! That's probably a bit much for me. I was hoping for a simple "plug and play" solution. Then again, nothing is simple ... right? Maybe my first step will be to simply try buying TOS 2.06 ROMS from eBay and plug them in. Let's see what happens. I searched for "30 pin simm 4x1mb" on eBay. Lots of results. How well would these work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-1MB-30-Pin-3-chip-Parity-70ns-FPM-1Mx9-Memory-SIMMs-4MB-RAM-Apple-Mac-PC/131905925586?hash=item1eb634b1d2:g:83oAAOSw0UdXrOn9:sc:USPSFirstClass!89423!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Exxos makes a dual tos board for the 1040STE machines, pretty much plug and play unless you have to change the zero-ohm resistor jumpers near the ROM sockets. Some STE machines came with 28 pin roms, I think it was the earlier machines though I'm not 100% sure on that (my 1040STE had French roms in it when I got it, 28 pin so I DID have to fix the jumpers on mine). Plug and play wasn't my experience. The switchable TOS adapter board will indeed install in the TOS ROM sockets, but in my case, it meant I could not put the disk drive back in. Some users have apparently decided to remove a small piece of the aluminum shield of the drive, but I opted to remove the sockets instead. But when you remove the sockets, you then find the TOS adapter board wont sit flush, as nearby components foul the alignment, so I had to solder the board in at a slight angle. A nice feature yes, but another centimeter on the length of the board and the PLCC would have been clear of the floppy drive, and installed without any drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I"d seen a couple posts about people removing the sockets and using the low profile versions, but wasn't sure which drives were affected. I've seen a few different drive mechs in the 1040-sized cases, they apparently have one that's thicker? Was this on an ST or an STE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) I"d seen a couple posts about people removing the sockets and using the low profile versions, but wasn't sure which drives were affected. I've seen a few different drive mechs in the 1040-sized cases, they apparently have one that's thicker? Was this on an ST or an STE? It was a UK spec 520STe. Upgraded to 1MB, The drive was the "small eject button to the right hand side" design. I should also add here that if you boot under TOS 2.06, it will fail POST with four bombs if the floppy drive is not connected. Not knowing that caused me a frantic hour of checking solder joints and trying different settings of the TOS jumper block before I finally realized that the issue was the lack of a disk drive that I couldn't put back in place due to the TOS switcher being in the way. Yeah, a decent install guide would have gone a long way. Edited January 20, 2019 by oracle_jedi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I'll hopefully get time to play with the 4 way setup on my Mega STE this weekend, I'd at least like to get the roms programmed, but I'm waiting on the modified 1.62 to get to me. I spent a few minutes making a small board to hold the switches earlier in Tinkercad, with the settings for the switches listed, but it may need to be a bit taller and wider to go where I want it to sit, it's pretty tight as it is in the file now. Going to see about printing it tomorrow if I can get a chance. Need to make a VME slot cover plate that will hold my micro-gotek stuff on it along with the other serial port as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Plug and play wasn't my experience. The switchable TOS adapter board will indeed install in the TOS ROM sockets, but in my case, it meant I could not put the disk drive back in. Some users have apparently decided to remove a small piece of the aluminum shield of the drive, but I opted to remove the sockets instead. But when you remove the sockets, you then find the TOS adapter board wont sit flush, as nearby components foul the alignment, so I had to solder the board in at a slight angle. A nice feature yes, but another centimeter on the length of the board and the PLCC would have been clear of the floppy drive, and installed without any drama. What is plug and play for sellers is plug and pray for buyers - old saying. We have a man with his store, forum, who has really strange ideas about how to design something. Basically it is: I will do it AFAP, at minimal costs, and then let users test it. And now, he wants to make ST remake. But he can not design 10x simpler PCB without errors, which need to be found by users. All I see are newer revisions, and his short memory. Not only in HW, but in SW too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I've seen a few pictures online of STE's with 28 pin roms in them, and most replacements are 32 pin. That would require jumper changing on the 1040STE on 2 of the 3 jumper pins. If you're good at soldering work, it's not a difficult job, but if you don't know what you're doing, I'd see if I knew someone local that could handle that for you. Also make sure you put them in the proper orientation (notch towards the notch in the socket). Those 1m sims you linked should work just fine, as long as they are actually good, working memory. They are pretty much the same as what's in mine at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 In case of SIMs need to take care that it must be non-EDO type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6BQ5 Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 In case of SIMs need to take care that it must be non-EDO type. The Item Specifics section at the top of the description say this RAM is Fast Page Mode (FPM) memory. I hope this is OK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 EDO shouldn't be a problem on 30 pin sims, far as I remember they didn't start using EDO memory until the 72-pin variety. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6BQ5 Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 *whew!* I ordered a set so I'm glad to hear they ought to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 EDO shouldn't be a problem on 30 pin sims, far as I remember they didn't start using EDO memory until the 72-pin variety. There are 30 pin EDO RAM modules. I remember it. Google too: https://www.google.hu/search?q=edo+ram+module+30+pin&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjr1OWKh4LgAhULzqQKHRrRACwQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1470&bih=878#imgrc=spGg942VO0SltM: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) I don't ever remember using any, but like I said that's been a VERY long time ago, lol. I've built 1000's of PC clones since the early 90's so I'm not surprised I didn't remember them, lol. Interesting thing is looking up the actual chips on a couple 30 pin memory modules listed as EDO, some say they are fast page, some say fast page with edo so it gets kind of confusing, lol. I know by the time we were using anything at the place I worked back then that was listed as EDO, modules had gone from 30 pin simms to 72-pin simms. Edited January 22, 2019 by David Hefner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattari Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 There are 30 pin EDO RAM modules. I remember it. Google too: https://www.google.hu/search?q=edo+ram+module+30+pin&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjr1OWKh4LgAhULzqQKHRrRACwQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1470&bih=878#imgrc=spGg942VO0SltM: Looks like someone incorrectly listed their 30 pin SIMMs on eBay as “EDO”. From memory, 72 pin SIMMs came in EDO or FPM varieties. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I really don't see the point to discuss this further. 'From memory" - as we know memory is not so reliable. Especially after some 28 years. Since I serviced diverse computers in that period, and even used 30 pin SIMs for upgrading ST (not STE) RAM, I remember it pretty well. https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1163711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hefner Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I think part of the problem is over here in the states, we didn't use much as far as EDO 30 pin. At any rate, Peter is correct. Long as the OP gets FPM memory he should be good to go. And for the record, during that time period I worked at several different PC shops, was a certified IBM/Compaq/HP/Okidata/Apple technician, and repaired and/or built 1000's of machines. Nobody around here was 'certified' on anything Atari back in the day aside from one tiny shop (they were a service center, but I suspect they were more a drop off point that shipped stuff back for repairs). Definitely been a long time, and for me, that's knowledge that I haven't used in decades so it's all fuzzy like it is for most of us, lol. At any rate, how's the modified 1.62 testing going Peter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattari Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I really don't see the point to discuss this further. 'From memory" - as we know memory is not so reliable. Especially after some 28 years. Since I serviced diverse computers in that period, and even used 30 pin SIMs for upgrading ST (not STE) RAM, I remember it pretty well. https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1163711 Yes, it doesn’t really benefit the OP with quoting what both of us were doing in the 90s (and probably of little interest to the audience here). There are plenty of reliable resources out there that support what I was saying that EDO was only introduced in 72-pin SIMMs (used by Pentium P5 chipsets). The main thing is not to send him on a wild goose chase for something that doesn’t exist. Back to the thread, 3, 8 or 9 chip 30 pin SIMMs are fine. Speed is the only other attribute but any 1MB SIMM will work. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6BQ5 Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 I received the memory. Very low profile sticks! They installed without any hitches. SysInfo reports 4096 kB of memory! I also purchased a set of TOS 2.06 ROM chips. Installing those (along with the jumper changes) is my next project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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