ol.sc Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Interesting - is http://atariage.com/forums/topic/287376-preannouncement-dragon-cart-iia different deal all-together? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Interesting - is http://atariage.com/forums/topic/287376-preannouncement-dragon-cart-iia different deal all-together? Yes. The Dragon Cart II will be realized as a PBI (XL series) and ECI (XE series) card. A few months ago ol.sc starts to talk with me about the idea of a Dragon Cart II, the first attempt was also realized as a cartridge. My personal suggestion was not to make another cartridge solution due the following reasons: IMHO the main success for an Ethernet solutions rely on two worktypes: Multiplayer-Gaming and Internet communication. For gaming most users today uses Flashcards for the games. Or the game itself will be on a cart. When the Ethernet-interface would also be realized as a catridge, at last you´ve to "stack" the carts - not a very nice thing. Will raise the costs of production, more instable, and maybe the registers used on both carts will interfere with eachother. Also some external SDX solutions with not fully decoded address areas may not work fully with another solution acquiring the narrow $D5xx address range. A PBI or ECI device can be managed at the whole addressbuss, can mirror memory, can switch off partial address ranges and more. This would be more compatible, configurable and better in physical handling. I´m pretty sure, both solutions have their fans. And it should be no problem, as the same Ethernet SoC is used, new developed software should support both. Just my 2 cents, of course. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol.sc Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 And it should be no problem, as the same Ethernet SoC is used, new developed software should support both. My understanding is that this thread is about a CS8900A based (cartridge) device, while the Dragon Cart II is about a W5100 based (PBI/ECI) device. According to my understanding is thread is about functionality-wise a Dragon Cart clone with the single addition to allow to move the 16 CS8900A registers inside the $D5 page via DIP switch. However, the network programs/libraries provided by me so far don't support the CS8900A on addresses different from $D500-$D50F. Regards, Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanny Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 My understanding is that this thread is about a CS8900A based (cartridge) device, while the Dragon Cart II is about a W5100 based (PBI/ECI) device. My understanding is that this not compatible to the original DragonCart since it uses the W5100 chip. But in cartridge format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Added myself to the list.1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. Stephen - 1 Cart31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38. Brentarian - 1 cart39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart 43. Mr Robot - 1 cart 44. Firedawg - 1 cart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol.sc Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 My understanding is that this not compatible to the original DragonCart since it uses the W5100 chip. But in cartridge format. Yes, you (and tf_hh) are right. Sorry for the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I was totally sold by the fact that is going to be PBI ... "Shut up and take my money!!!" 1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. Stephen - 1 Cart31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38. Brentarian - 1 cart39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart 43. Mr Robot - 1 cart 44. Firedawg - 1 cart 45. manterola - 1 cart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I was totally sold by the fact that is going to be PBI ... "Shut up and take my money!!!" This one is a cart product, the other one is a PBI device, they both use the same chip so hopefully software will be compatible with both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 ok, so now I am confused....So the "dragon cart II" is not the same as the "new dragon ethernet cartridge"...? If that's the case I should erase my name from the list.. right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol.sc Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 This one is a cart product, the other one is a PBI device, they both use the same chip so hopefully software will be compatible with both. I don't see software supporting both devices implicitly. Rather it needs to be explicitly implemented to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol.sc Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 So the "dragon cart II" is not the same as the "new dragon ethernet cartridge"...? You are right. Two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manterola Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Ok... Sorry for the confusion. I have deleted my name, so the #45 is open. 1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. Stephen - 1 Cart31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38. Brentarian - 1 cart39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart 43. Mr Robot - 1 cart 44. Firedawg - 1 cart 45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Yeah - after seeing the new PBI solution (and I already have an original Dragon), I'd like to remove myself from the list too (#30). Sorry - it was just bad timing on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 #MeToo. Sorry! 1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. 31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38. Brentarian - 1 cart39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart43. 44. Firedawg - 1 cart45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I hate to do this also, but PBI is what I wanted in the first place. 1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. 31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38. 39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart43. 44. Firedawg - 1 cart45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I'm going to be in the "one of each to go along with my original DragonCart" camp. (In other words, keep me on the list) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Now I'm confused. There's two dragoncarts now? Which one is better if I have a SIDE2 cart installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanny Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 As the CEO of a former company where I was said, "we do both". So best to get both variants, cartridge and PBI version :-) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Now I'm confused. There's two dragoncarts now? Which one is better if I have a SIDE2 cart installed? Unless you've got some way to have more than one cart installed at a time, you'll need the PBI/ECI version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Unless you've got some way to have more than one cart installed at a time, you'll need the PBI/ECI version. Yeah, I think that's what I'll get. Edited January 23, 2019 by TheNameOfTheGame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmaOhneBH Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 As the CEO of a former company where I was said, "we do both". So best to get both variants, cartridge and PBI version :-) sanny's former CEO: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) So, this sounds like a good idea. Since it is not related at all to the original dragoncart, I would prefer that the name be different. The original was a 5v cs8900a chip and support glue attached to a cartridge, without it's own internal IP stack. From a quick thread skim, I'm not sure if the item being discussed is a cartridge, or an ECI/PBI, or maybe it's both. I think that the ECI/PBI is a better implementation than the cartridge, but if the cartridge has a pass through then I think it's kind of moot but I'd still prefer the ECI/PBI. Please put me down for 2 of either the PBI/ECI (if available) or 2 of the carts. Actually, I'll probably buy 2 of both, but lets start with what's being discussed. As far as software goes, I do have a stack written as a device handler using the I: device and driven by VBI, so it's accessible from any language that can use CIO calls. It supports a stack with ARP/ICMP/BOOTP/DNS/UDP, but the TCP part was about 1/3 done when I ran out of gas. It's freely available to anyone who is interested. Using a chip with it's own stack will change things greatly, but it's a good proof of concept for using an interrupt-driven CIO handler. It will probably be much easier using the new chip. For gaming, what you typically need is a really fast UDP implementation and so the makers should concentrate of the speed of mioving things off of the chip and into memory. 1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. Dan Winslow - 2 carts31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38.39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart43.44. Firedawg - 1 cart45. Edited January 23, 2019 by danwinslow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol.sc Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 As far as software goes [...] In case you're interested in actively developing something for the W5100 I'd be happy to discuss details with you - either in another thread or 1:1, as you prefer. Just let me know... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) if you have an original unmodified 800 (that is without full PBI interface added to it) then this is the way to go at the moment. as for cost benefit, well you have to get prices on both of the new offerings and weigh them.. I'd get one of each to be sure. I am going the eci/pbi route, as I already have and original dragon... that being said, I have one unmodified 800 and off loading is of benefit, I may be snagging one of these newly available slots... Edited January 23, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1. davidcalgary29 - 1 cart2. xrbrevin - 1 cart3. skriegel - 2 carts4. Marius - 2 carts5. brenski - 1 cart6. AtariSociety - 1 cart7. Mathy - 2 carts8. Haightc - 1 cart9. Markk - 1 cart10. Sleepy - 2 carts11. Nezgar - 1 cart12. Gunstar - 1 cart13. Chaosfaktor - 1 cart14. Wadeford - 1 cart15. sanny - 1 cart16. DNA128k - 1 cart17. Senor Rossie - 3 carts18. KlasO - 2 carts19. NML32 - 1 cart20. CharlieChaplin - 1 cart.21. slx - 1 cart22. David_P - 1 cart23. Rainier - 1 cart24. AtariPortal - 2 carts25. patjomki - 1 cart26. Allan - 1 cart27. Toddtmw 1 cart28. TheNameOfTheGame 1 cart29. adam242 1 cart30. Dan Winslow - 2 carts31. Jinroh - 1 Cart32. Philsan - 1 Cart33. Lastic - 1 Cart34. invisible kid - 1 cart35. gozar- 1 Cart36. pixelmischief - 1 cart37. BigBen - 1 cart38. Soulbuster 1 Cart39. Ransom - 1 cart40. TemplarXB - 1 cart41. tuf - 1 cart42. mariusz - 1 cart43.44. Firedawg - 1 cart45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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