Unreleased Jaguar Games.

[agradeneu]

Valid point.

And pretty new to the system too.

[Andrew Rosa]

And pretty new to the system too.

That too is valid, though has little bearing on the video or how Jenovi presented it. As I said, boxes are clearly not legit mock-ups created by those involved with development, and the game footage was tagged.

[Major Havoc 2049]

Still alot of fan fiction, like the mock up boxes of Aero the Acrobat or AvP 2. IMO its problematic to mix up facts with fiction or including game footage not even running on Jaguar hardware. It intentionally blurs the line and will just create new rumours, hearsays and fairy tales. Very entertaining, but take it with a grain of salt.

 

I see where you're coming from. Does AVP2 even reach the status of a "cancelled game", when it was only ever story boarded and never given the go ahead by Atari? I recently watched a video from Rare about Sea of Thieves and they said they had proposals and story boards for like three or four games, before deciding to go ahead and make Sea of Thieves. Are all those other games Rare thought about making now considered cancelled games? I don't think so. But I would consider Donkey Kong Racing a cancelled Rare game, because actual work was done on the game and it was announced by Nintendo.

 

I do remember Atari announced that they were working on Alien vs Predator CD for the Jag CD at E3 in 1995, but just like AVP2, it never made it past the planning stage. So shouldn't AVP CD be considered a cancelled game and included in jenovi's video? Did Atari even announce to the public that they were working on AVP2 for the Jag? Maybe AVP CD could be considered more of a "cancelled game" than AVP2, because at least Atari announced it to the public.

[Lost Dragon]

Not sure if it was an official Atari annoucement, but here in the UK Computer And Video Games magazine had the news that Atari were 'prowling the nation' looking for a development team for AVP II and Atari Uk's Darryl Still speculating such a game might use the link up cable on Jaguar and V.R headset.

 

As for AVP CD...that was officially announced? .

 

Only ever seen the following regarding that:

 

James Purple Hampton was meant to of commented in an off camera section of an interview,that he’d been talking to Fox to try and get the licence for a Jaguar CD version of AVP…

 

And Dan Macnamee explained why it wasn’t possible:

 

“Fox has their own software division, and at the time had decided to do Alien and Predator related games themselves so they could get the whole profit instead of just royalties. Don’t know what happened to any game plans they might have had."

 

 

 

Rebellion themselves put paid to rumours of a Jaguar CD version back in late 1994:

 

"Um, all these people who seem to think AvP is due out on the JagCD would

: appear to know something we don’t — just to squash rumours before they

: get out of hand. Sorry, folks.

: — dan @ Rebellion"

 

They've also talked of features for such a potential version being used as a wish list and being used on the later PC version of the game.

[agradeneu]

 

I see where you're coming from. Does AVP2 even reach the status of a "cancelled game", when it was only ever story boarded and never given the go ahead by Atari? I recently watched a video from Rare about Sea of Thieves and they said they had proposals and story boards for like three or four games, before deciding to go ahead and make Sea of Thieves. Are all those other games Rare thought about making now considered cancelled games? I don't think so. But I would consider Donkey Kong Racing a cancelled Rare game, because actual work was done on the game and it was announced by Nintendo.

 

I do remember Atari announced that they were working on Alien vs Predator CD for the Jag CD at E3 in 1995, but just like AVP2, it never made it past the planning stage. So shouldn't AVP CD be considered a cancelled game and included in jenovi's video? Did Atari even announce to the public that they were working on AVP2 for the Jag? Maybe AVP CD could be considered more of a "cancelled game" than AVP2, because at least Atari announced it to the public.

During 1994 I remember reading through a lot of lists Atari gave to press, while they were postponing titles which were promised to be ready at launch/in early 1994, like AvP. Lots of promises to lure consumers into buying a Jaguar. Most of those titles never were released and most of them probably were just existing on paper. Because Atari did that with the Lynx before, most magazines were sceptical about the Jaguar from day one, not trusting any of Ataris promises anymore. Personally I don't think Atari themselves are a credible source as their PR department created smokes and mirrors from day one the Jaguar launched, screwing their last remaining consumers with false promises.

Edited January 23, 2019 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

Not sure if it was an official Atari annoucement, but here in the UK Computer And Video Games magazine had the news that Atari were 'prowling the nation' looking for a development team for AVP II and Atari Uk's Darryl Still speculating such a game might use the link up cable on Jaguar and V.R headset.

 

As for AVP CD...that was officially announced? .

 

Only ever seen the following regarding that:

 

James Purple Hampton was meant to of commented in an off camera section of an interview,that he’d been talking to Fox to try and get the licence for a Jaguar CD version of AVP…

 

And Dan Macnamee explained why it wasn’t possible:

 

“Fox has their own software division, and at the time had decided to do Alien and Predator related games themselves so they could get the whole profit instead of just royalties. Don’t know what happened to any game plans they might have had."

 

 

 

Rebellion themselves put paid to rumours of a Jaguar CD version back in late 1994:

 

"Um, all these people who seem to think AvP is due out on the JagCD would

: appear to know something we don’t — just to squash rumours before they

: get out of hand. Sorry, folks.

: — dan @ Rebellion"

 

They've also talked of features for such a potential version being used as a wish list and being used on the later PC version of the game.

Atari did a lot of PR for Mortal Kombat 3. What do you know about that?, Did they ever wrote one line of code for a Jaguar version?

Edited January 23, 2019 by agradeneu

[Lost Dragon]

It's a crying shame Jane Whittaker didn't reply to Luca on Unseen64 as in among the Q's were us asking for clarification of dropped features from AVP due to cartridge limits...supposedly game had Aliens climbing the walls, the predator armed with the net gun weapon.

 

 

Then there was this Whittaker claim:

 

"I have a version of the game that I will probably release on AVI at some

time where the predator gets tired chasing you, stops and says “Im tired

from all this running”, leans against a wall and starts smoking a cigarette!"

 

 

Nothing ever said about this before or after.

 

We did try another Rebellion source but again no replies were forth coming after Q's sent.

[Lost Dragon]

MKIII?

 

Scott Stilphen's files showed Probe's Fergus McGovern (RIP) saying they had the PC MK coder lined up to port the Playstation version to Jaguar and Farran Thompson thinks work would of started so Probe would of been paid an inital milestone payment. .maybe a title screen and character select screen.

 

Something to show Atari, but he admits his memory is understandably fuzzy.

 

 

But then you have people who swore blind they know a guy who played it at E3 (despite no press coverage of it at all) and constantly refer to myself as a raving lunatic who talks nothing but shite..end of quote

 

So i might not be best person to ask, i just report on what physical evidence has come forward.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[agradeneu]

It's a crying shame Jane Whittaker didn't reply to Luca on Unseen64 as in among the Q's were us asking for clarification of dropped features from AVP due to cartridge limits...supposedly game had Aliens climbing the walls, the predator armed with the net gun weapon.

 

 

Then there was this Whittaker claim:

 

"I have a version of the game that I will probably release on AVI at some

time where the predator gets tired chasing you, stops and says “Im tired

from all this running”, leans against a wall and starts smoking a cigarette!"

 

 

Nothing ever said about this before or after.

 

We did try another Rebellion source but again no replies were forth coming after Q's sent.

I think he was just pulling off a very sarcastic joke. British humor :-)

[Lost Dragon]

I expect he was as we British sometimes say, pulling the pi##er of the person asking the Q's when talking of a knackered, fag puffing Predator, but when the opportunity arose, it seemed a great chance just to be sure

 

Never know if it was included as an Easter Egg or cheat mode never intended for commercial release, just done for laughs for the development team.

 

We like to cover all the bases.

[jenovi]

 

I see where you're coming from. Does AVP2 even reach the status of a "cancelled game", when it was only ever story boarded and never given the go ahead by Atari? I recently watched a video from Rare about Sea of Thieves and they said they had proposals and story boards for like three or four games, before deciding to go ahead and make Sea of Thieves. Are all those other games Rare thought about making now considered cancelled games? I don't think so. But I would consider Donkey Kong Racing a cancelled Rare game, because actual work was done on the game and it was announced by Nintendo.

 

I do remember Atari announced that they were working on Alien vs Predator CD for the Jag CD at E3 in 1995, but just like AVP2, it never made it past the planning stage. So shouldn't AVP CD be considered a cancelled game and included in jenovi's video? Did Atari even announce to the public that they were working on AVP2 for the Jag? Maybe AVP CD could be considered more of a "cancelled game" than AVP2, because at least Atari announced it to the public.

100% it does for the standard I laid out. As far as I'm aware AVP CD is AVP 2, then again I'm not covering CD conversions of existing Cart games so I might be wrong as I'm not tracking them. Every one of these games was stopped at a different segment of the development process with sizable money spent. As an example, Batman Forever had $25k invested, Hardball III? $117k. Technically every game was given the go-ahead up to the point of cancellation as these companies were required to submit near weekly progression reports as part of the evaluation process. If things looked good, they continued with payouts and additional recommendations. If not, they might pull funding and recommend canceling the project as did happen with Hammer Head (

 

Skyhammer) even though $110k was invented at that point. The series is really about all the projects in all stages of development during the life cycle of the system, not just the ones in Alpha and Beta states.

[agradeneu]

 

100% it does for the standard I laid out. As far as I'm aware AVP CD is AVP 2, then again I'm not covering CD conversions of existing Cart games so I might be wrong as I'm not tracking them. Every one of these games was stopped at a different segment of the development process with sizable money spent. As an example, Batman Forever had $25k invested, Hardball III? $117k. Technically every game was given the go-ahead up to the point of cancellation as these companies were required to submit near weekly progression reports as part of the evaluation process. If things looked good, they continued with payouts and additional recommendations. If not, they might pull funding and recommend canceling the project as did happen with Hammer Head (

 

Skyhammer) even though $110k was invented at that point. The series is really about all the projects in all stages of development during the life cycle of the system, not just the ones in Alpha and Beta states.

 

The definition of an unreleased game is quite straight forward: 1. you need evidence of an actual game or at least a playable prototype 2. that game was canceled, not released, altough near completion

AvP 2 does not fall into this category obviously, like most of those rumored games. And like I said before, a mock up box does not make a rumor an unreleased game. I think thats ok for entertainment, but has nothing to do with actual research.

Edited January 23, 2019 by agradeneu

[Lost Dragon]

As for Mortal Kombat III.

 

Just to clarify, as it's been brought to my attention an individual is still busy telling people not to trust my Lost Games research let alone myself as an individual

 

I was not the individual to make this claim on a certain Retro forum regarding the game:

 

"Midway - Mortal Kombat 3 was finished for the Jaguar and was even shown off at shows too. It was going to be a CD game then they decieded to release it on cart to reach a wider user base. However Atari couldn't stump up the money to keep it as an exclusive game and then Midway never even released it because of the demise of the machine. I am 99% sure this game still exists, I am 99% sure I know who has it and there is a still a small chance it will see the light of day if an agreement can be reached.

 

I just shared the internal Probe/Atari documentation and passed on Farran Thompson's comments.

 

The community is adult enough to decide which of us took the more credible research route, i am sure..

[Lost Dragon]

Re:Artemis-The P.R statement at the time

:

 

Visionix (USA) and Mr. Andrew Whittaker (UK) have announced the immediate creation of a new joint-venture company,

Springer Spaniel Software (SpringerSoft).

 

SpringerSoft has already started the design and development of a

revolutionary new video game, under the project-name "Artemis", which will be released for IBM and compatible

PC systems in the first quarter of 1996.

 

Versions of the game for the Atari Jaguar, Sony PlayStation, Sega Saturn,

and other high-performance, CD-ROM systems are tentatively planned for second and third quarters of 1996.

 

Andrew Whittaker will be leading the development of the new game. Mr. Whittaker is a UK based game developer with over 15 years of experience.

 

Recently released games developed

by Mr. Whittaker include the smash-hit "Alien Vs. Predator" for the Atari Jaguar, a game which has been rated as "Most wanted of the 1994 holiday sales season" by both US and UK video game publications. Mr. Whittaker's other recent releases include "Dark Seed" and "Ashes of Empire".

 

Visionix is a US based software development house that specializes in video game, multimedia, graphics imaging, and operating system design and development. Visionix employees

previously worked on the best-selling "Scott Adams Graphics Adventure" series for Adventure International/Scott Adams,

Inc.

 

Carol Street, the Vice-President of Production at Springer Spaniel, commented that "SpringerSoft has been formed to take advantage of the skills of both UK and US based graphics, sound, design, and development specialties. Our games will be distributed worldwide, including the domestic,

European, Asian, Australian and South African markets."

 

SpringerSoft will have offices in Orlando, FL, USA; the United Kingdom; and New York, NY, USA.

[Lost Dragon]

As loathe as i am to pay lip service to attention magnets elsewhere, but when accused of making ludicrous statements by them, i can only suggest spec savers.

 

 

At no point did i suggest the individual in question had MK3 nor any of the other claims laid at me.

 

I merely quoted his original RetroGamer forum post..

 

 

Not sure if this will help provide a reality check:

 

 

 

### #####

The Atari Jaguar Unreleased Games Thread

 

Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:16 pm

 

 

Midway - Mortal Kombat 3 was finished for the Jaguar and was even shown off at shows too. It was going to be a CD game then they decieded to release it on cart to reach a wider user base. However Atari couldn't stump up the money to keep it as an exclusive game and then Midway never even released it because of the demise of the machine. I am 99% sure this game still exists, I am 99% sure I know who has it and there is a still a small chance it will see the light of day if an agreement can be reached.

 

 

I know where you got the claims from ##### and you know...

 

What you did was add the 99% you were sure you knew but as always, couldn't say..cobblers onto the end of it.

 

Spin it all you want.

It was your post..own it.

 

 

And this one as well:

 

 

###_##### OFFLINE

Bratticus Maximus

 

 

 

3,571 posts

Atari Sega Nerd

Location:The Retro Lair

Posted Sun Nov 7, 2010 1:52 PM

 

 

 

The other rumoured game is of course Mortal Kombat 3. We know that it was close to being finished if not finished as there are people who have played it and it was shown to the press too. When Carl got Total Carnage from Midway he did mention something about the possiblity of some other games and shortly afterwards the Dactyl Joust (also by Midway) video appeared

 

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/171957-could-some-of-the-jags-cancelled-games-be-ressurectedrevived/?hl=%2Bmortal+%2Bkombat+%2Bjaguar+%2Bfinished

 

 

Your 99% sure you know who had it...

 

'We know'...

 

There are 'people' who played it...it was shown to 'The Press'..

 

 

So sure of your copy n paste claims, yet cannot seem to nail down any specifics and now trying to distance yourself from 2 posts on 2 different forums with plenty of time between each post.

 

 

Spin that along with the other nonsense whilst trying to convince those with a genuine interest in bringing lost Jaguar games information to a wider auidance you would make a valuable asset to have on board.

 

And if your going to quote GTW finds on Lynx, at least have the common decency to credit them for the find..

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[Lost Dragon]

Apologies to Jenovi and the forum in general for that unpleasant distraction, but it just highlights the kind of character that's offering you 'help' with your YT channel.

 

It's time consuming and paying lip service to the attention seeking to response to the nonsense, but in the case of MKIII on Jaguar, the individual made the same nudge nudge, wink , wink comments more than once and time hasn't forgotten it either.

 

 

Anyway..

 

 

Best of luck with future episodes.

[Lost Dragon]

You cover Battlewheels in your latest Episode and say it's not known what progress was made on the title.

 

 

Little wonder as there is so much conflicting information regarding it, doing the rounds.

 

Many years ago a poster on Unseen64 claimed he'd contacted Beyond and they had told him work didn't get beyond early 3D modelling. .

 

Beyond themselves issued conflicting statements:

 

1.A few people have inquired as to the status of BattleWheels for the

Jaguar. As far as we know, this project is still on. We have been

negotiating with Atari to develop this concurrently with the PC

version. As soon as we hear some confirmation from them, we’ll be

adding information on the Jag version to our web pages. BattleWheels

would make an awesome display of the Jag’s capabilities, and we will

continue to move it through the early stages of development. Thanks

for the inquiries, and please keep the ideas, suggestions, etc.

coming.

 

Clark Stacey

Beyond Games

 

2.A statement from Clark:

 

First, I’m sorry to report, there are no immediate plans to do BattleWheels for the Jag. However, a fully networked version of BattleWheels for the PC _is_ in the early stages of development. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it ported to the Jag after it’s released, but the PC version will come first.

 

Second, No final deal on AvPII has been struck. That doesn’t mean we’re not going to be doing it, but that it won’t get out of the planning

stages until contracts are signed, etc. I’ll keep you posted.

 

 

 

Followed by Clark then saying:

 

Folks, I must apologize for an erroneous post not long ago. I said that Beyond

Games is not currently developing BattleWheels for the Jag, just for the

PC. This is incorrect. Both versions are being developed, and are

scheduled for release next fall.

Clark Stacey

designated quasi-net person;

Beyond Games

 

 

Then you had this claim from an IGO Report:

 

Moreover, Beyond Games, who

coded Ultra Vortek, and were supposed to receive a contract for the sequel

to the incredibly popular Alien vs. Predator, have stated that Atari has

dropped the contract negotiations for that game, and have not been

responsive to proposals for a conversion to the Jaguar of Beyond Games’

Lynx hit Battlewheels.

 

 

Beyond admitting on several occasions they were not sure what direction to take Jaguar Battlewheels in..

 

Beyond were looking at possibilities of bringing Battlewheels and U.V to the 3DO.

 

Beyond toying with idea of Mech Tiles on Jaguar, doing a 3D platformer on Jaguar, a FRPG on Jaguar..

 

Doing Major Havoc 2000 for Atari..

 

Claiming low scores for Jaguar Ultra Vortek were due to likes of Edge and U.F.G playing pre-production versions of the game.

 

For a company who brought so little out on Jaguar, there's an awful lot of speculation and conflicting information about what else was actually going to be a serious development project for them on the hardware.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[Lost Dragon]

@Agradeneu:

 

You were asking about Jaguar MKIII?

 

Extra snippet for you.

 

Reply from John Skruch when asked why Jaguar MKIII hadn't been released :

 

February 1997

From:jtscorp.com (Skruch, John)

 

The reason is simple-we were not making money. MK3 was planned but never completed.

[Major Havoc 2049]

I'm sure Atari could have sold alot more Lynxes in Europe if this thing was available in sufficient quantities. It was very hard to find a Lynx in the wild. Same with the Jaguar.Initial demand was quite high during early 1994, but only very limited numbers ever crossed the pond, then probably lots of preorders were cancelled.

 

 

For the Jaguar, it actually wasn't much different in the US. I bought my Jaguar in December of 1993 at retail. I first went to an Electronics Boutique and bought the last Jaguar on the shelf, but they didn't have any extra controllers, accessories or games, as they only received a handful of Jaguar consoles and nothing else. I then went to a Babbage's and they had some accessories, controllers and extra games (about three or four of each). The manager was complaining to me at checkout that his store only received one console and that a bunch of people were coming into the store interested in the Jaguar, but he didn't have any consoles to sell them. I walked out with a copy of Raiden, some AV cables and an extra controller, but I was both happy and sad at the same time. Happy because I had a Jag and some loot, but sad because I knew it was another failed Atari product launch.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Major Havoc 2049

[Greenious]

I ran a small mailorder business dealing atari back in 90-94 ca while I was in high school. In sweden there was a massive shortage of jaguar stuff to sell, hardware aswell as software. whenever I managed to get something it was basically sold the same day. I had people calling me almost daily asking for AvP, Tempest and other games.

 

I never understood the shortage, not then, not today, especially since B&C, Best, telegames etc still is selling a lot of these games manufactured ages ago, even though some of the hardware and games has sold out in recent years.

[Lost Dragon]

You mentioned Alone In The Dark on your video.

 

Even if it had appeared, i strongly suspect it would of recieved the exact kind of welcome the 3DO version recieved...

 

That was described as an elderly port over which should of been done earlier and better.

 

It arrived at a time Capcom were showing off a 60% complete version of Resident Evil on Playstation, which made both AITD 1 and 2 look very long in the tooth.

 

3DO AITD was mauled for looking inferior to Playstation AITD II which arrived for review at the same time.

 

Reviewers picked up the smaller game window, plain polygons and lower frame rate of the 3DO game next to Playstation AITD II.

 

By the time the Jaguar CD version might have limped out, that's of course had it been signed and work done on it , (do we have any credible evidence these conditions were met? Or just press speculation?), chances are Resident Evil itself would of been finished and released.

[+davidcalgary29]

I ran a small mailorder business dealing atari back in 90-94 ca while I was in high school. In sweden there was a massive shortage of jaguar stuff to sell, hardware aswell as software. whenever I managed to get something it was basically sold the same day. I had people calling me almost daily asking for AvP, Tempest and other games.

 

I never understood the shortage, not then, not today, especially since B&C, Best, telegames etc still is selling a lot of these games manufactured ages ago, even though some of the hardware and games has sold out in recent years.

 

Frail and unreliable distribution networks coupled with disastrous marketing. Atari Canada was pretty good, but I saw the Jag for sale in only one place in Toronto in '94. Huge display, and a major store, but it was in just that one place. Years later, when I was living across the country in Calgary, a small chain of five game stores had a huge glut of NIB Jag games (where I bought many in 2003 and 2004 for $10 each, but no systems. It's symptomatic of a company near collapse, with lots of stock in a few places but no way to move it to other consumers efficiently.

[kimchipenguin]

In Germany, I've never seen a Jaguar ready to play at the big retailers back in the day, nor any print or television ads. Atari did however advertise the Lynx as late as 1993. Atari Inside magazine did print a two page list of developers and titles that were presumably in development, but that magazine was never a reliable source and they probably copied that list from somewhere else. Same with some retailers that advertised games as pre-orders that would never be released.

 

Also, Atari didn't handle distribution themselves in Germany and Austria. They left it to Pagedown, an Atari retailer with little experience with game consoles. Excerpt from an interview with Pagedown (Atari Inside magazine) in 1994:

 

Pagedown: Nach unbestätigten Aussagen sind in den USA bisher ca. 800.000 Konsolen verkauft worden. Im Mai 1994 nannte uns Mr. Paul Welch (Sales Manager ATARI UK) die Zahl von ca. 500.000 Geräten für die USA. Der Absatz in Deutschland sollte leicht 30% des amerikanischen Marktes erreichen.

 

 

"Pagedown: According to unconfirmed statements, 800000 consoles have been sold in the U.S. to date. In May 1994, Paul Welch (Sales Manager Atari UK), told us about 500000 units for the U.S.. Our sales volume for Germany should reach 30% of the American market easily.".

 

Pagedown didn't have any connections with department stores and were relying on the Jaguar's success to expand marketing. I'm not sure whether they ever expanded their advertising beyond the two Atari magazines but with such a small window of opportunity for the Jaguar, I doubt it. There was also a German Jaguar print magazine that supposedly had a circulation of 15000, even though it was sold at Atari retailers only...

 

The other Atari magazine in Germany, ST-Computer, mostly ignored rumors and supposedly soon-to-be-released Jaguar titles and just reviewed games that were actually released. Video game magazines did the same.

[Lost Dragon]

@Jenovi:An associate of yours, Top Hat Gaming Man, speculated Doom II was going to be a Jaguar Duo exclusive...

 

 

Official word from I.D seems to of traced a potential source of the claim Doom 2 was headed to Jaguar and prove it utterly false:

 

 

 

Q. What can you tell us about the Jaguar version of DOOM 2?

GameFan says that it should be completed by 4th quarter this year. Is

that accurate?

 

DOOM ][: Hell on Earth will be completed by the 4th quarter of this

year, but we will probably not do a port of it.

 

 

-Shawn Green (sh...@idsoftware.com)

id Software

[Andrew Rosa]

@Jenovi:An associate of yours, Top Hat Gaming Man, speculated Doom II was going to be a Jaguar Duo exclusive...

 

 

Official word from I.D seems to of traced a potential source of the claim Doom 2 was headed to Jaguar and prove it utterly false:

 

 

 

Q. What can you tell us about the Jaguar version of DOOM 2?

GameFan says that it should be completed by 4th quarter this year. Is

that accurate?

 

DOOM ][: Hell on Earth will be completed by the 4th quarter of this

year, but we will probably not do a port of it.

 

 

-Shawn Green (sh...@idsoftware.com)

id Software

Well, we all know where Top Hat gets his Jaguar information from these days.