Thinking about an ST

[digitalman]

I wanted an ST when I was young but ended up getting a C64. My knowledge is around Commodore but thinking about learning the ST world. However, where to start?

 

520, 1040? STf, STe? From my minimal research the STe seems to be more rare. Can you convert an STf to STe? What's the going price for a system? (NTSC)

 

I'd like to run some games, maybe do a little programming and playing with connectivity. Can you get these things on the internet?

 

Any advice is appreciated.

[David Hefner]

If it were me, I'd angle towards anything STE, as they are the later models, with features the ST/STFs don't have. They are also more easily upgraded memory wise (they use standard 30-pin simms). If you're in the US, no matter which you get it's not going to be cheap though.

 

Depending on what you're intending to do as far as going online, it's quite possible with these machines. You can use either something like a NetUSBee (plugs into the cartridge port, and has usb and ethernet ports), or a WifiRS232 module (plugs into the RS232 port on the back, and emulates a Hayes-compatible modem, and connects to your wifi to 'dial' into telnet BBS systems). I've got both, but haven't tested the WifiRS232 module yet.

 

If you're wanting ease of use, you'll probably want to replace the floppy drive with a Gotek drive, which use floppy images on a usb key, and emulates the 3.5" drive (you can also get versions of these that allows you to keep your 3.5" floppy, and swap it via a switch with a gotek).

 

Far as programming goes, I'd probably also pick up either a Satandisk, or Ultrasatan drive, which is a SD card hard drive emulator. These will also facilitate moving stuff from your PC to your ST and back..

 

As for displays, I use a 19" NEC multisync monitor, with a ST2VGA adapter (I've got both Centuriontech's, and the one Exxos sells, both seem to work about the same). Any monitor that accepts the 15khz video signals should work with either one of those adapters in all 3 resolutions (2 color, one mono), and pretty much ANY monitor will work in High res mono with those adapters.

[digitalman]

If it were me, I'd angle towards anything STE, as they are the later models, with features the ST/STFs don't have. They are also more easily upgraded memory wise (they use standard 30-pin simms). If you're in the US, no matter which you get it's not going to be cheap though.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Is it easy to find an STE? My current searches only turn up STFs.

[David Hefner]

STE's in the US (I'm assuming US since you're looking for NTSC) aren't as numerous, but they do show up from time to time. I got my 1040STE from overseas (France), and put a US keyboard and a Meanwell power supply in it (required modification to the power supply mount, but much more reliable than the aging ST power supply), along with US TOS 2.06 roms. I also installed a Microgotek with a switch to change between the internal floppy and gotek (the method I used doesn't swap them, just selects which is active, you can boot either drive, but not cop between unless you flip the switch when the system asks for a disk change). I also have a Satandisk set up on it, for the emulated hard drive. It came with 1mb RAM in it, but I do have another set of 4 1mb simms on the way for it. As of right now, I'm about 50/50 on selling this one, and just keeping the MegaSTE, so if you're in the US you may be in luck, lol.

[6BQ5]

Here's another thought.

 

Try downloading an emulator, like Hatari, along with some TOS ROM images. This will not cost you a penny and it will give you a quick and easy way to try the GEM environment. There are plenty of disk images you can download from atarimania.com and virtually mount inside the emulator. You can quickly and easily change between ROM images and select every machine type from ST to Falcon with a click of a mouse. I've played a few games and run some demos on Hatari. My Windows 10 PC has a "low end" i3-8100 processor. You may be pleasantly surprised by the results and the experience.

 

In the meantime, while you play around with Hatari or another emulator, keep your eyes and ears open for your dream machine. As you said, there are plenty of STf and STfm machines on eBay. STe, TT, and Falcon machines are a bit more rare but do show up occasionally. These last three machines came out during Atari's decline in the late 80's and early 90's. I don't know how many of these machines were produced but I imagine a lot less of them were made compared to the STfm models. So, supply is more limited. Demand for these machine is still healthy so that always leads to higher prices. Also, the memory is much easier to upgrade in the STe which adds to its allure.

 

I don't think you can go wrong with any model. Just know what you are getting (or not). Remember, this is retro computing which serves very little practical purpose. This is fun playtime. Heck, maybe you'll start a collection and get one of each model!

 

I used to have a 520 STfm and I upgraded it to 1 MB with my Dad. What a great experience that was! I never ran into a program I couldn't run with 1 MB of memory. 4 MB will take you over the moon and back.

 

There were some games and demos that were STe specific. They leveraged the upgraded sound and Blitter but these were far and few in between compared to the library of "regular" software. I don't know what the current home brew market is developing these days. Browse through the Atari Mania site to see what's available for what platform.

 

Good luck in your quest!

[digitalman]

Remember, this is retro computing which serves very little practical purpose.

 

What? Are you saying my obsession with vintage tech has no practical purpose!? Nothing has more practical purpose then drinking beer and bidding on eBay on a Friday night!

 

lol.... thanks for the feedback. I was looking at Hatari. Any recommended locations for ROM images and/or disk images?

[6BQ5]

 

I downloaded my TOS images from here :

 

http://www.avtandil.narod.ru/tose.html

 

It was the first search result from Google when I searched for "tos images".

 

Disk images - start with atarimania.com as mentioned above. As you get deeper into the ST ecosystem you will discover other sources of disk images. There is a lot out there.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Atarimania has mostly STX images of originals. http://www.planetemu.net/

will be better . Or this: http://atari.8bitchip.info/ASTGA/astgam.php

And maybe emulator Steem ...

[newtmonkey]

If you want to actually use your ST, make sure it has 1) built-in floppy drive and 2) the ability to plug it into a TV. You should be safe with an STE (that's what I have), but I originally bought a 1040STF (no RF modulator) thinking that I could plug it into a SONY PVM with RGB SCART cable, but I could never get it to display a picture over the monitor port. (My STE works perfectly using the same cable and same PVM). If you plan on plugging it into an Atari monitor (or even better, if the ST comes with its monitor), I guess you can get whatever model ST you want.

 

Writing floppy images from a PC with USB floppy drive for use on the ST is possible, but finicky. It basically involves splitting floppy images to a couple of disks and using an ST program to recombine them. I forgot the details because it was annoying enough that I just replaced the ST floppy drive with a Gotek drive, and never looked back.

 

As for disk images, if you want to sample a ton of games and also experience what it was like back then for a lot of ST gamers, download the disk image collections from the major cracking groups. Everyone's got their favorites, but the most popular in my area were Pompey Pirates, Medway Boys, and Automation. These groups would stuff a single disk with anywhere from 2-5 games. It's a fantastic way to sample the library, though there are no guarantees any of the games work from start to finish.

 

Best Electronics used to carry like new/refurbished ST systems for pretty decent prices, but I checked just now and all he has is a 520STFM for 399 USD. That seems pretty high for me, and I think at this point you could likely get a better system for the same price or less if you are patient.

Edited January 26, 2019 by newtmonkey

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I don't know how it is in most houses in good ol' USA, but here in even older Eu older TVs are in big part out from usage. Mostly because they have some failure at some point, and repair costs are too high in compare to prices of new TVs - if it is possible to get parts for them at all. So people simply gets new, flatscreen TVs. And on many of them there is SCART connector, so you can connect there any ST with RGB cable .

 

STE and ST RGB output is same. So, if that 1040STF has no pic, there is some problem. Maybe composite sync on pin 2 of monitor connector is missing, or is bad . That's easy to add - transistor, couple diodes. I'm sure that Best will gladly do it for some 200 $ + shipping costs

[+DarkLord]

 

What? Are you saying my obsession with vintage tech has no practical purpose!? Nothing has more practical purpose then drinking beer and bidding on eBay on a Friday night!

 

lol.... thanks for the feedback. I was looking at Hatari. Any recommended locations for ROM images and/or disk images?

 

Don't let them fool you - of course vintage tech (especially Atari!) is eminently practical!

[+slx]

So people simply gets new, flatscreen TVs. And on many of them there is SCART connector, so you can connect there any ST with RGB cable .

 

 

If you stick to hi-res, there are ST to VGA adapters. Some are switchable for med/lo-res as well but you need a monitor capable of 15Khz to display that (there are some).

 

As for the SCART on LCD TVs, SCART seems to be on the way out. On a popular price comparison website, only about 40% of TVs listed since 2015 and about a quarter of those listed since 2018 have SCART. Less than half of the newer models still have composite input. Philips seems to have dropped them completely on their newer models. There's less and less legacy equipment with composite output, so more and more manufacturers are dropping the composite part of their TVs. Here in Europe many don't even have analog tuners anymore (and even if they had, most old equipment RF output would get butchered by the receiver circuits).

 

Monochrome monitors still seem to be plentiful and quite cheap here, probably too bulky for many to store (including myself, I have no spare). Original color monitors are rather rare and expensive.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Funny, because I bought Philips TV half year ago, and it has SCART, and works well with Ataris. However works not in monochrome mode (unlike computer monitors) despite works fine with new computers and has 2 Hdmi connectors. And as I see, new Samsungs have still SCART too. Surely, it is outdated, but there is still lot of old stuff around - not only computers but VCRs, consoles, cameras around.

Analog tuners have no sense anymore, really - well except someone want to connect Sinclair Spectrum 48K, early models without video output, only RF.

I don't know which manufacturers drop composite and other old video standard inputs. I don't see that at moment there is problem about getting such TV (so with SCART and/or composite, component inputs) . Surely, there are cheaper TVs than Philips or Samsung, some not brand models, but I really would not go that direction, especially as many of them is not even full HD.

Things are that can get decent new TV with needed inputs and modes good for Ataris at price which is not much higher than price of diverse scan doublers and converters.

[digitalman]

Maybe a dumb question, but do the Atari monitors support both PAL and NTSC signals? Can I use Euorpean and North American St machines with the same native display? ie. Atari sc1224 Monitor

[ParanoidLittleMan]

SC1224 works only with RGB signal. And works at 50 and 60 Hz. So it can work with PAL and NTSC machines in color mode. Best quality is RGB.

[SumnerS]

While I have a 1040STf because that's what I've had since the 80's; for playing games I haven't run into any issue. Everything I've purchased has managed to play, some boxes say 1 meg only or double sided disk drives but the STf has both and it seems to be the cheapest and the model I seem to come across the most in the United States at least.