jowi Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Is there some equivalent on Atari 8 bits like the built in Monitor function in the C64 etc? Or is functionality like this incorporated in some of the larger and better assembler software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) AFAIK there is no built-in monitor in the C64: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Machine_Code_Monitor Custom operating systems for the Atari like the one for the ROM-Disk by R. David, QMEG or the BIBOMON series contain such a feature. (Of course there are many software solutions like on the C64 side.) Edited January 25, 2019 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explorer Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Atari 800 Monitor: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) I was watching a youtube video on 6502 assembly yesterday, and the guy was using a C64 emulator with a machine code monitor, and i remembered having that standard on my Commodore C16 back in the day. I presumed it was on the C64 as well but that was not the case. Some more info on the monitor (Tedmon) here: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/TEDMON @explorer what is that program, where can i find it? I assume it uses an emulator? Edited January 25, 2019 by jowi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) The C64 doesn't have a monitor, but if you have a cartridge (such as the Action Replay) then you have a monitor and freezer available.don't get me wrong - I love my C64 - but once you try an Action Replay it doesn't feel like a full machine when it's disconnected. If you have actual hardware then I really recommend getting one Edited January 25, 2019 by sack-c0s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Why monitor on real hardware ? Emulators are way better, and have functions like this. And functions simply impossible on real hardware. I use Altirra for everything. Edited January 25, 2019 by R0ger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Why monitor on real hardware ? Emulators are way better, and have functions like this. And functions simply impossible on real hardware. I use Altirra for everything. Hardware/driver development? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 Why monitor on real hardware ? Emulators are way better, and have functions like this. And functions simply impossible on real hardware. I use Altirra for everything. I think in the end developing on an emulator is much more efficient and much faster, i know... but for now i really enjoy the retro feel of clunking in commands on the real device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Some basic dumping / disassembly is part of QMEG, right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 I played some more with the basic Atari editor/assembler cartridge, i must admit it can do more then you think at first the only thing i'm missing is a hexdump feature with a datapreview, but the normal hexdump will do for now. There is also a mini assembler, which is nice for beginners in assembly like me to test small things, single commands etc and see immediate results without having to assemble, run etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 If going native then a MAC/65 cart is recommended 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 I bet these cartridges are hard to find? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
777ismyname Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I bet these cartridges are hard to find? OSS carts are quite expensive these days. An SIO2PC (or 2USB or 2BT) or one of the flash carts is an excellent investment for using your Atari. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 AtariMax does do a pre-imaged Mac/65 with DDT (debug toolkit) see https://www.atarimax.com/freeshippingsale/But going the way of an UNO Cart or AVG Cart and putting the image on that: https://atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1685 https://atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=202 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 AtariMax does do a pre-imaged Mac/65 with DDT (debug toolkit) see https://www.atarimax.com/freeshippingsale/ I've seen the atarimax website, but i never saw the mac/65 cartridge... in fact, this 'freeshipping' page is not even linked anywere from the homepage? How are people supposed to find it Is there more info on this cartridge? There is no info on it on the site? Or it is hidden like the freeshipping page...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Try it out in emulation first, for manuals etc, head over to https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Mac65I've taken the ATR that burns the 1.01 image from the AtariMax site and used Altirra to write to a MaxFlash cart image and attach this here. Mac101.zip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Thanks loaded the cartridge in altirra, looks good! It assembles waaaaaay quicker then the ed/asm gonna study the manuals etc! But why would you not buy the cartridge but use the uno or avg cart? What's the added value in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Those carts are effectively taking the ROM image file and emulating the AtariMax bank switching scheme. The advantage therefore is that the SD card can be filled with so much else (executables, ROM images, ATR disk images etc). The disadvantage is only that you need to boot to the menu and select the Mac/65 image to launch it, rather than booting direct into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Ah ok, so can use it as storage for your assembly code and .obj etc as well, no need to use Aspeqt etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Not currently. There are a few ways this could be achieved, e.g. maintain the IDE emulation as a passthrough to the SD card, provide a driver to give a DOS like interface to the filesystem. FlashJazzCat had done experiments but this would be amazing prospect for native dev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Yep: the problem there is stability on stock machines, since the IDE emulation is racing the clock pretty hard. I have a faster board on loan from Robin, though. Just need time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) the avg car emulates a spartados x cart and at the same time is accessing ide drive on it's SD card, I am using it on a 130XE with MIO, I copy to and from MIO RAMDISK, IDE DRIVE, SIO, interchangably, but can only read from fat file system drives on the IDE while still being able to write to all else. No writing limitation on all others, the fatfs.sys doesn't support writing yet... no problems, I want to stack the emulated cards though... currently I can do all of the above and run spartados 3.whatever off the mio and still access the IDE drive. I have to have and IDE aware item selected in the cartridge like side loader or SDX or put the avg into IDE only mode for that. So far so good... If you have a machine with timing issues try replacing 74 '08s with 74ACT08's faster and full drive. Works a treat on problem machine I've tried them on. Edited February 2, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 Played with DDT a bit. First thing i notice... why not use the whole screen? So weird. You have a very limited area, and they decide to only utilize 2/3 of the screen... i guess a lot has changed in user interfaces in the last 40 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Played with DDT a bit. First thing i notice... why not use the whole screen? So weird. You have a very limited area, and they decide to only utilize 2/3 of the screen... i guess a lot has changed in user interfaces in the last 40 years I would guess space limitations in the cartridge precluded anything fancy. OSS carts mostly only have a couple hundred unused bytes, not much room for anything except minor bug fixes. I did buy Extended DDT by Dunion from APX but I could never get it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I had ExDDT from ANTIC (came too late for APX) and remember it working on my 800, but probably not together with MAC/65. Using a smaller screen would also save memory for the screen which is a concern if you need to keep Assembler, Debugger, Source and Object Code in 64K. IIRC you can save some memory by using DOS XL with MAC/65 as it can use the RAM under the cart (supposing a flash cart supports this as well). You‘ll probably want some extra memory to have a ramdisc to store source code (and a good routine/batch file to save your sources before debugging). Have fun assembling! (I always wanted MAC/65 as a kid but now even though I have it, I much prefer WUDSN as it‘s so much more comfortable to use and so much easier to debug on the Mac.) Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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