Atari ST buying advice please?

[256 colors]

Back in the day i had Atari ST but so out of touch of what too look for as a gaming machine mostly

Do i go for ST with just RGB out or STFM OR STE (i have a TV/monitor that accepts RGB SCART) and (SONY CRT TV that accepts RGB SCART/S-VIDEO)?

I understand between the ST AND STE some compatibility issues what's best for me wanting to run as many games as possible?

I understand TOS versions have compatibility issues with some older and newer games TOS 1.02/2.06 i'm in the UK with PAL can i switch between the two or just use a better TOS version for better games compatibility

Is there any other issues i need to know like motherboard revisions or bad and failing components or PSU

Edited January 31, 2019 by 256 colors

[Greenious]

Most stuff is patched today, unless the hardware is missing, there are few, if any games, that have compatibility issues with TOS, STE etc.

 

I'd recommend getting an STE, and upgrade it to a minimum 1mb RAM, that should run more or less everything.

 

ST's doesn't have the STE hardware, so STE specific stuff won't work, but should be cheaper. Still, minimum is 1mb ram.

 

RGB offers the best video quality, not really much to think about there, all ST(E)s do that, modulator or not.

 

Recapping/refurbishing the PSU is probably not a bad idea, recapping the mobo likely not needed. Standard maintenace includes reseating socketed chips, resoldering joystick/mouse connectors that tend to get 'loose' with time.

 

Other than that, there's really not much else to keep in mind.

[6BQ5]

Just a quick mention of physical condition.

 

I recently purchased a 1040 STe from a seller on eBay. The machine was pretty clean. I don’t think it was ever opened. There was a little bit of dust, dirt, and hair inside but only a little.

 

The front half of the top half of the case yellowed. It looks tobacco-ish in color. Yellowing is a normal process of the plastic aging. Don’t let something like that turn you off ... unless someone literally puked on the computer.

[256 colors]

Just reading though another thread here on the forums If i bought a 1040STE is it possible too have a 3 way mod switch for TOS 1.02/2.06 and STE TOS?

[David Hefner]

Plans for a 4 way TOS switch, that should work fine in the 1040STE (I'm putting one in my MegaSTE, which uses the same rom layout at the moment):

 

http://atari4ever.free.fr/hardware/zip/4tos_swc.zip

 

That's from : http://atari4ever.free.fr/

 

Just reading though another thread here on the forums If i bought a 1040STE is it possible too have a 3 way mod switch for TOS 1.02/2.06 and STE TOS?

[256 colors]

Am i right in thinking i can also use different TOS boot disks on a 1040STE?

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Just reading though another thread here on the forums If i bought a 1040STE is it possible too have a 3 way mod switch for TOS 1.02/2.06 and STE TOS?

TOS 1.02 will not work on STE. And in case of ST 1.04 is much better choice. Yes, there are couple games which need 1.02, but really not much, + many of this is fixed.

TOS 1.04 works not on STE too, but I have modded version which can work.

In any case, SW, game compatibility problems can not solve with any of TOS version 100% . But lot of it is fixed, adapted for any TOS v.

http://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd2.php

Example of fixed TOS 1.00 only game: http://atari.8bitchip.info/ASTGA/T/tracker.php

[Greenious]

Plans for a 4 way TOS switch, that should work fine in the 1040STE (I'm putting one in my MegaSTE, which uses the same rom layout at the moment):

 

http://atari4ever.free.fr/hardware/zip/4tos_swc.zip

 

That's from : http://atari4ever.free.fr/

 

 

For STE I really see no practical reasons to run anything other than TOS 1.62/2.06... For ST 1.04/2.06..

 

The other 2 OS's you would put on a 4-way TOS setup is basically just for fun, maybe EmuTos, or KaosTos?

 

But multiple TOS on STE is very easy to do, a bit more complicated with ST, but that guide works. I did another one with better images though.

 

Am i right in thinking i can also use different TOS boot disks on a 1040STE?

 

You could, but the the OS end up in RAM, and you would probably want more than 1mb.

[256 colors]

It all seems like bit of an over complicated minefield for ST games compatibility i might look at the Amiga machines instead

From what i keep hearing the Amiga machines are better for sound graphics anyway?

Edited February 1, 2019 by 256 colors

[ParanoidLittleMan]

It all seems like bit of an over complicated minefield for ST games compatibility i might look at the Amiga machines instead

From what i keep hearing the Amiga machines are better for sound graphics anyway?

What to expect from someone calling self 256 colors in 16/512 color World

[256 colors]

What to expect from someone calling self 256 colors in 16/512 color World

haha that's very true

[6BQ5]

It all seems like bit of an over complicated minefield for ST games compatibility i might look at the Amiga machines instead

From what i keep hearing the Amiga machines are better for sound graphics anyway?

The easiest way to try before you buy is to download an emulator.

 

You up can download multiple TOS images and have them handy for switching with a mouse click in your emulator. I have Hatari on my Windows 10 PC. It s available for other platforms like MacOS and Linux too.

 

Same goes for the Amiga.

 

Go for it!

[256 colors]

The easiest way to try before you buy is to download an emulator.

 

You up can download multiple TOS images and have them handy for switching with a mouse click in your emulator. I have Hatari on my Windows 10 PC. It s available for other platforms like MacOS and Linux too.

 

Same goes for the Amiga.

 

Go for it!

 

I did own a 1040STFM years and years ago

Did try Hatari and Steem my biggest issues were odd and buggy emulation with weird GUI with strange behaving cracked and mostly pirated games never felt right

Also tried WinUAE was okay apart from hard to setup

Probably going to stick with real hardware so i can avoid those wtf? moments in emulation

Edited February 1, 2019 by 256 colors

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Huh ? Hatari is good emulator with little primitive GUI - the reason is that it uses generic, multi platform dialogs, which are not so good as special Windows dialogs, or Linux, MAC ones.

Steem GUI weird ? I can say that it is much better than WinUAE emulator's GUI. Surely, someone with lower ST knowledge can be lost little in all options, but I'm sure that Steem is one of easiest to use emulators. What is harder is actually real Atari ST HW.

For instance, emulators like Steem and Hatari are ideal to test SW under diverse TOS versions - something what can't be done so fast and comfortable on real HW, even if you have TOS switcher with 4 TOS versions, since there is much more of them - sometimes SW works well under German TOS 1.00, but not under other language versions.

And btw. Steem is the emulator which from start supported copy protected image formats - so you can play practically originals - with STX format, what is developed together with Steem.

http://www.atarimania.com/pgemainsoft.awp?type=G&system=S

On site above are thousands of STX (Pasti) images of original releases, so if you don't like cracks get them. Get Pasti from it's site, and you can make something what not on real HW.

All is for free, unlike many things in Amiga waters.

[6BQ5]

I did own a 1040STFM years and years ago

Did try Hatari and Steem my biggest issues were odd and buggy emulation with weird GUI with strange behaving cracked and mostly pirated games never felt right

Also tried WinUAE was okay apart from hard to setup

Probably going to stick with real hardware so i can avoid those wtf? moments in emulation

 

 

Very odd! I have to agree with ParanoidLittleMan above, especially when it comes to Hatari. That emulator works very well for me. I can switch TOS versions easy-peasy. The program is very stable. I have mounted several disk image files from Atari Mania and everything works.

 

I do agree the GUI is a little primitive but I think that is because the software is meant to be cross platform. It should recompile easily on whatever the target system is. Making it too dependent on Windows specific GUI elements probably breaks the cross platform portability.

 

Then again, depending on what you want to do you can configure Hatari a coulpe times, save the individual configurations, and load the one you want when you want it.

 

The only quirks I find in Hatari are :

 

• The VDI when you want higher resolution. Some software doesn't play nice with nonstandard resolutions. I now stick with standard screens resolutions.
• Improper configurations of machine type vs processor vs speed vs FPU vs total memory vs TOS. Wow, what a list! I have stopped trying STe machines at 16 MHz with 68030 processors.
• Full screen vs windowed. Hatari works much better in full screen mode, especially when it comes to mouse behavior.

 

Actual Atari hardware is harder to configure and experiment with because making changes is more cumbersome than selecting radio buttons and check boxes ... but it is so fun though! Using real hardware is special indeed!

[256 colors]

My main gripe with most emulators is being handcuffed to PC and all the crap that goes with it

At least with real hardware that's in good working order it should behave as expected

In any case when i decide on which to use Atari or Commodore looks like i will get two machines (STFM/STE) (500/1200)

Edited February 1, 2019 by 256 colors

[hunter44102]

Windows 10 is sending thousands of telemetry packets and thousands of services running that are out of user control (all while running your emulator) . Updates downloads every few months that are 500mb or more. Not to mention that windows virus scanner can decide at any moment that your emulator is pirated or at risk and remove it.

 

Why have all this network traffic when using an Atari emulator?

 

If I did emulation it would be on Linux minimal install.

 

Real hardware is still awesome, the look and feel are great and a much more static controlled environment.

 

Of course emulators are great for testing

Edited February 1, 2019 by hunter44102

[256 colors]

Personally i'm sick to death with any type PC gaming especially Steam

These day i mostly use offline machines for Windows 3.1/98 and XP it's the same for my small collection of home computers

Atari 800XL

Commodore 64/128/PLUS 4

Acorn Electron

MSX2

 

Apart from the modern loading devices it's simplicity of those machines without the bullshit

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I used Win 10 couple years ago, and it was really annoying with all those forced updates. At the end it crashed. I seen couple times that it created some 50000 new files on my hard disk, temporary files, which disappeared later. I guess, my PC was used by MS as testing platform. Now I'm on Windows 7, and it is really not hard to use, especially after disabling updates. Good antivirus SW is of course a must. Win 8, 8.1 are too much tablet looky, and I don't see benefit in going on it.

But Steem Debugger - variant of Steem with tracing of running complete Atari ST(E) CPU, RAM + other chips is something what programmers could only dream, back in 80-es. You have total overview and control about everything, and is ideal for testing SW, finding bugs, errors, problems. And it helped a lot in gaming too.

Really don't see why some say that Steem is not good for gaming. Surely, it is not same feeling as on real Atari HW, but it is not far at all from it. And there are some things what can not do on real HW - not talking what all some programmer can, but ordinary user, with regular Steem. For instance there are patches for diverse games, then can save states of games any moment and use them later.

But back to topic: state saves are possible with real Atari HW. But you need mass storage. And min 1 MB RAM.

http://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd2.php

Over 1200 games adapted for hard disk run. Fixed for all TOS versions and Atari ST versions. And most have state save option. That's something you can not do with Amiga and WHDload.

[256 colors]

When i mentioned Steam i meant the crap by Valve

Edited February 1, 2019 by 256 colors

[256 colors]

So just to be clear i should aiming for two machines

for a STE machine TOS 2.06 to start with and add a switch for TOS 1.62 or load via disk?

for a ST machine For ST 2.06 to start with add a switch for TOS 1.04/TOS 1.02 or load TOS 1.04/TOS 1.02 via disk?

 

Also is it better to hold out for a Mega STE if i can find one?

Edited February 3, 2019 by 256 colors

[David Hefner]

On the standard, non-STE machines, I'd go with 1.04/1.02, and skip the 2.06 (Unless you go with ParanoidLittleMan's modified 1.4x that has all the 2.06 bits in it, along with other goodies). You can also use that modified TOS (or another version of it) from him on the STE as well.

[6BQ5]

So just to be clear i should aiming for two machines

for a STE machine TOS 2.06 to start with and add a switch for TOS 1.62 or load via disk?

for a ST machine For ST 2.06 to start with add a switch for TOS 1.04/TOS 1.02 or load TOS 1.04/TOS 1.02 via disk?

 

Also is it better to hold out for a Mega STE if i can find one?

Ask yourself if you will use the advantages of Mega STe.

 

1.44 MB floppy may be nice, especially if it is readable in your Windows machine. That may make transferring large MSA files downloaded from the web on your Windows PC easier.

 

Games and demos and some software may not like the 16 MHz clock. Lots of programs use low level code to leverage system clocks for synchronization. Make sure you check for compatibility.

 

The FPU and expansion card are nice but I dont know how widely supported they are. Most software was written for the lowest common denominator, like the STfm or STe. The Mega series definitely wasnt cheap so it wasnt very popular compared to other models.

 

The internal drive is nice and maybe you could even upgrade it. I think Atari used SCSI-1 drives in there back then. Check a place like eBay for available hardware. Supply may be limited and/or too expensive.

[256 colors]

On the standard, non-STE machines, I'd go with 1.04/1.02, and skip the 2.06 (Unless you go with ParanoidLittleMan's modified 1.4x that has all the 2.06 bits in it, along with other goodies). You can also use that modified TOS (or another version of it) from him on the STE as well.

 

Okay so 1.04/1.02, for normal ST and 2.06 for STE

 

Got some one who will do the mods for me all i need to do know is find decent machines most are way over priced eBay

Edited February 4, 2019 by 256 colors

[Greenious]

 

Okay so 1.04/1.02, for normal ST and 2.06 for STE

 

Got some one who will do the mods for me all i need to do know is find decent machines most are way over priced eBay

You guys really are not making this easy for the kid...

 

Unless you actually know that you need another version of TOS, I'd say 1.04 för ST and 1.62 for STE is just fine to start out with. Like I said earlier, more or less all software is patched today (atleast all the software that is worth wasting your time on is), but you need 1mb RAM. For STE, using simms, that is no problem, but upgrading an ST is difficult.

 

2.06 isn't really worth the hassle unless you are getting a harddrive, since you need a few auto booting programs to really take advantage of it, and you'd probably want 4mb ram aswell then.