walter_J64bit Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) NES fans figured it out, maybe this can help maybe not. I know, I would like to play my copy of Barnyard Blaster, Crossbow, Crime Buster and yes Bug Hunt too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCZ-Z-OZFUs&pbjreload=10 Edited February 4, 2019 by walter_J64bit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eegad Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 It would be cool if someone figured out how to make the 8bit lightgun work on modern tv's... Would love to play Crossbow again. (alternately it would also be great if someone could hack Crossbow to work with a joystick or trackball) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) A hack for Crossbow and other lightning games to work with a joystick or trackball would be awesome too. Edited February 4, 2019 by walter_J64bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It's in no way applicable to our system. The NES uses a more primitive method of light gun detection, the annoying flashes when you press the button being a clue to the methods they need to resort to. The Atari light gun generally just needs bright colours to be used in the software. With an LCD TV there's not a way for our light guns to work. They rely on Antic latching the current beam X/Y positions when a trigger transition is detected. 2 problems with LCDs - lag vs CRT where the image is often delayed by half a frame or even up to a few (applies to both types). - CRT is a raster scan where the photo sensor detects the beam actually going past which allows the X/Y to be calculated by hardware fairly accurately. LCDs don't operate that way (applies to Atari's method). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) a hack to the backlight, and make the tv draw the screen a line at a time, pixel by pixel, crt's are just better all around...this hasn't been solved for arcade cabinets either.. Edited February 5, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Nintendo Wii solved it by using 2 IR LED's placed at the top or bottom of the screen, then an IR-only camera inside the wii-motes pointed at the screen would be able to calculate the 'pointed' position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 the wii is a lag fest.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Nintendo Wii solved it by using 2 IR LED's placed at the top or bottom of the screen, then an IR-only camera inside the wii-motes pointed at the screen would be able to calculate the 'pointed' position. That'd be a good solution in conjunction with a bit of black-box hardware. The POT registers could be used - as it is the PENH is a colour-clock value anyway so never exceeds the range, PENV is scanline DIV 2 so same deal. Then an OS hack to replicate the relevant POT registers into the PEN shadows, that could fix most light gun software. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Hello Rybags What would that black-box hardware need to do? Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 That'd be a good solution in conjunction with a bit of black-box hardware. The POT registers could be used - as it is the PENH is a colour-clock value anyway so never exceeds the range, PENV is scanline DIV 2 so same deal. Then an OS hack to replicate the relevant POT registers into the PEN shadows, that could fix most light gun software. Might be easier to have a black box watch the video output directly and time it out to "trigger" the raster scan detect at the correct time according to where the gun is pointed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Hello ChildOfCv Might be easier to have a black box watch the video output directly and time it out to "trigger" the raster scan detect at the correct time according to where the gun is pointed. Finding out where the beam would be isn't the hard part. The hard part is detecting where the gun is pointed. I've been trying to come up with a way to do that for years, but had no luck yet. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Hello ChildOfCv Finding out where the beam would be isn't the hard part. The hard part is detecting where the gun is pointed. I've been trying to come up with a way to do that for years, but had no luck yet. Sincerely Mathy I think they were discussing using the Wii remote method with the light bars. There is also a ready-made gun I've seen that emulates a USB mouse. No idea if it's any good either though. But if you combine that with a composite video line counter, you'd at least have a blueprint for a modern light gun solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Black box would have to do the 3D trig to work out where you're pointing at. Good idea too - instead of POT registers just have the Atari video signal coming in, and just do the normal light pen TRIG stuff at the appropriate time which would mean no need for hacks or changes on the Atari itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Actually the gun I was talking about handles the 3D stuff for you and just gives your host computer an X,Y. So the host computer's job is a lot easier: Just count the output signal's lines, then when the scan crosses the gun's X,Y, pulse the strobe input. Of course this all depends on how good the gun is. https://www.ultimarc.com/aimtrak.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 it's close, but you have and issue they didn't bother to solve, you have to hold the gun at the same height no matter what or it drifts and is not accurate... you almost need a fixed tripod or mount to use it accurately, a third led would have solved it or another sensor in the gun. those additions would fine calibrate the gun when people are different heights or not standing in the exact same spot at calibration. the issue existed to a lesser extent with the wii.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Hello ChildOfCv Problem with that gun is that you not only need to buy the gun, you also have to patch the software (or write new software). I'm looking for a solution where we can keep the computer and the software as is. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Hello ChildOfCv Problem with that gun is that you not only need to buy the gun, you also have to patch the software (or write new software). I'm looking for a solution where we can keep the computer and the software as is. Sincerely Mathy You misunderstood. The gun would plug into a "black box" that the console's output goes through on its way to the TV. When the gun's screen position report crosses the console's video signal line count, the "black box" dings the console on its light gun strobe input. So you *do* keep the computer and software as is. However, I guess The Doctor has some experience with the gun and says it has its own drawbacks. See his post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) yep someone shorter than me or taller than me and you have to re calibrate, or if you hold the gun different because you are not a robot. The only solution for it is to put it on a mount so the height doesn't change... after enough people had an issue with it notes about it are with the gun and on their site... Edited February 13, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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