Ute Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2ms is nothing. You wouldn't even notice 20ms lag, unless you are 15 years old Read this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274004-sophia-revc-dvi-board/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4052904 Sophia Rev.C itself does not introduce any extra processing delay. When you use it with a PC Monitor, you will have very little lag (for example 5ms with Acer S200HLBbd, which is neglectable). The most of TVs have a lag in a range of 100ms - 200ms in a normal mode, so you really have to remember to switch a TV to the game mode (to disable DSP processing) and you will end up with ~20ms lag. Here is an overview showing example TVs lags: https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&tab=wT&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dein-fernseher.de%2Finput-lag-fernseher Anyway, your ATARI with SOPHIA Rev.C can still be connected to a CRT (over Composite Video), so you don't miss anything. In my opinion Sophia is the most efficient way to enjoy your Atari in a living room I agree that the Sophia is a nice option to have moving forward as CRT's are becoming harder to find and more expensive. And I also agree 2ms is not a huge lag time. I was sort of mixing two thoughts together above and I mistakenly said refresh rate when I meant response time(the rate at which a pixel can change color). A 2ms response time however is very slow. The response time of a CRT's pixels is over 1000 times faster than an LCD. The only thing that comes close to a CRT's response time is an OLED/QLED at 10us, and right now those are quite expensive and that's still over ten times slower. And funnily enough they get screen burn in just like a CRT. But anyways, I'm just saying when combing lag time with response response time, I get why people like to hold on to CRT's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I agree that the Sophia is a nice option to have moving forward as CRT's are becoming harder to find and more expensive. And I also agree 2ms is not a huge lag time. I was sort of mixing two thoughts together above and I mistakenly said refresh rate when I meant response time(the rate at which a pixel can change color). A 2ms response time however is very slow. The response time of a CRT's pixels is over 1000 times faster than an LCD. The only thing that comes close to a CRT's response time is an OLED/QLED at 10us, and right now those are quite expensive and that's still over ten times slower. And funnily enough they get screen burn in just like a CRT. But anyways, I'm just saying when combing lag time with response response time, I get why people like to hold on to CRT's. Yes CRTs can be extremely fast, with minimal lag time, but 2 ms is 100 times faster than the average younger person's reaction time. And if you are over 24 years old it only gets worse. So I would conclude that a 2 ms lag would not be noticeable, and certainly not affect your game play. Not unless you are an AI on a super computer . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 lag is additive and as you get older, and 200ms plus how slow you are as you age = failed mission on many games. I know for a fact I can play tempest 2k on the Jaguar like a mad man on CRT, my family tried watching and could keep up with me with all the melto vision explosions and ridiculous numbers of bad guys I creamed level after level after level... I would play all night... When we got the Visio and Samsung flat panels, I was the one getting creamed no matter what mode I set them in (and they were not cheap... I then tried and older Olevia set with almost the same result... I used and LG with all the bells and whistles turned off for raw power and lowest lag, it didn't look great but I fared better. I thought I couldn't play at those levels and my abilities had failed me... Grabbed an old sc1224 hooked it up and wouldn't you know played half the night! woot 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 lag is additive and as you get older, and 200ms plus how slow you are as you age = failed mission on many games. I know for a fact I can play tempest 2k on the Jaguar like a mad man on CRT, my family tried watching and could keep up with me with all the melto vision explosions and ridiculous numbers of bad guys I creamed level after level after level... I would play all night... When we got the Visio and Samsung flat panels, I was the one getting creamed no matter what mode I set them in (and they were not cheap... I then tried and older Olevia set with almost the same result... I used and LG with all the bells and whistles turned off for raw power and lowest lag, it didn't look great but I fared better. I thought I couldn't play at those levels and my abilities had failed me... Grabbed an old sc1224 hooked it up and wouldn't you know played half the night! woot I agree that if the LCD lag was 200 ms that would be noticeable since adding in your own 200+ ms of delayed reaction time would make it pretty close to 1/2 a second. But if the LCD is only experiencing a 2 ms delay, that would be invisible to even a 15 year old gamer. For myself, I would say my personal lag time is probably already close to a 1/2 second without any help from a slow LCD . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 lag is additive and as you get older, and 200ms plus how slow you are as you age = failed mission on many games. I know for a fact I can play tempest 2k on the Jaguar like a mad man on CRT, my family tried watching and could keep up with me with all the melto vision explosions and ridiculous numbers of bad guys I creamed level after level after level... I would play all night... When we got the Visio and Samsung flat panels, I was the one getting creamed no matter what mode I set them in (and they were not cheap... I then tried and older Olevia set with almost the same result... I used and LG with all the bells and whistles turned off for raw power and lowest lag, it didn't look great but I fared better. I thought I couldn't play at those levels and my abilities had failed me... Grabbed an old sc1224 hooked it up and wouldn't you know played half the night! woot Now I see the point. The electronics for analog video processing (if supported at all) is definitely not in focus of modern TVs manufacturers. The picture quality and lags are usually so bad that even the game mode won't help much. I agree that connecting the ATARI via composite video to a modern TV makes little sense. However things really change if your computer is equipped with SOPHIA and provides a digital video signal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) List updated. Working:Model / Resolution / NTSC/PAL:Acer S200HLBbd 1600:900 NTSC / ?ASUS VE278Q 1280x1024 NTSC / ? (Using a DVI to HDMI video only cable, couldn't find aspare DVI/DVI cable, will update this soon as I do)BENQ BL3200PT 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Dell 1905FP 1280x1024 NTSC onlyDell U2412M: NTSC onlyDell U2913WM: NTSC/PALDell U3011 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ?/PALDell U3014: NTSC & PALHANNS-G, Modell HC194D 1280x1024 ? / PALHP EliteDisplay E241i 1536x960 ? / PALHP Compag LA2405x 1536x960 ? / PALHP LP2065 1536x960 ? / PALHP LP2465 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ? / PALLG 24MP47HQ: NTSC onlyLG 42LW650S (HD TV) 1600:900 NTSC onlyLG 55UH8509 (4K TV) 1600:900 NTSC / ?LG DM2352D-PZ (HD Monitor) 1600:900 NTSC & PAL OKLG E2242T: NTSC onlyLG E2441V: NTSC onlyLG IPS LED 24EB23 1536x960 ? / PALLG W2600H: NTSC and PALNEC Multisync LCD1970NX 1280x1024 NTSC / ?NEC Multisync EA190M (Rev 1A) 1280x1024 NTSC / ?HP LP2465 NTSC & PALSamsung SyncMaster 2443BW 1536x960 ? / PALNot working:Acer S243HL monitorDell U2713HMDVDO iScan VP50 scaler (!)JVC DILA X7500 projectorHDFury VertexHP Compaq LA2205wgLumagen Vision HDP scaler (!)Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M (Elite 141 series) television Edited February 14, 2019 by Sleepy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Also works well with the NEC AccuSync AS193i. With NTSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ute Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Yes CRTs can be extremely fast, with minimal lag time, but 2 ms is 100 times faster than the average younger person's reaction time. And if you are over 24 years old it only gets worse. So I would conclude that a 2 ms lag would not be noticeable, and certainly not affect your game play. Not unless you are an AI on a super computer . I think I've confused people about what I'm saying. Hopefully this screen shot clears it up. CRT on the left, LCD on the right. You can see the lag, guy on the left has completed his somersault. But more importantly the response time and the point I was trying to make in the other posts, a ghost/fuzzy/blurry image, because the pixels can't update fast enough. YouTube video where screen shot was taken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JUbCoLKxs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) exactly, and the still frame fuzz etc. is what they call motion blurring in an effort to cover for and to fool your brain into thinking the motion is smooth... thank you for the side by side actual on this, as folks seeing may lead to understanding and believing the truth of the matter.... Edited February 15, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynetho Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Am I the only one who gets an image from Sophia just fine, but the monitor displays an error over the screen until the OSD times out and then the screen goes to sleep? I have an HP S2031 (NTSC). I get a white box in the middle of a perfect Atari screen that says: Input out of range Change settings to 1600 x 900 60Hz If I go to monitor status it says: Current settings: H=62.8KHz V=60Hz Recommended settings: 1600x900 - 60Hz WTF does 62.8KHz by 60Hz mean and why does the monitor display it but not like it? Before someone states the obvious, yes I know the horizontal frequency is 62.8 KHz and the vertical frequency is 60 Hz. I mean in the scheme of things, what does 62.8KHz x 60Hz mean as far as resolutions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynetho Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Compatible monitor with HDMI port: AOC E2070Sw +/? (NTSC works, PAL unknown) One caveat, this monitor has no controls other than power so switching between the VGA and HDMI ports is a bit difficult. I have my PC's VGA going to the monitor through a VGA extension cable and I"m unplugging the extension to break the VGA so I can use the Atari. Conversely, the HDMI signal has to be cut before it will switch back to VGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I'm trying to get in touch with Simius to see if I can purchase one of his Sophia rev.C DVI boards, but I had a question about video inputs that are required from the monitor. Because of this thread, I assume it isn't as easy as plugging into a DVI port, or an HDMI port with a DVI to HDMI converter. Someone mentioned to me that I need to make certain the monitor is capable of accepting a 15kHz signal and that didn't make any sense to me. I know that's an issue with the analog signal when trying to connect an ST to a later VGA monitor, but I didn't think this was an issue with something like the Sophia. I thought I'd read that Sophia outputs a completely digital signal, so the horizontal frequency issue should be out the window, right? Or am I completely missing the boat on something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynetho Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I'm trying to get in touch with Simius to see if I can purchase one of his Sophia rev.C DVI boards, but I had a question about video inputs that are required from the monitor. Because of this thread, I assume it isn't as easy as plugging into a DVI port, or an HDMI port with a DVI to HDMI converter. Someone mentioned to me that I need to make certain the monitor is capable of accepting a 15kHz signal and that didn't make any sense to me. I know that's an issue with the analog signal when trying to connect an ST to a later VGA monitor, but I didn't think this was an issue with something like the Sophia. I thought I'd read that Sophia outputs a completely digital signal, so the horizontal frequency issue should be out the window, right? Or am I completely missing the boat on something? My HP s2031, although not liking the video signal, said the input signal was H: 62.8KHz and V: 60Hz. I still do not know exactly what the HP monitor didn't like about the signal since 62.8KHz is well within its supported horizontal frequencies. And YES, it is an ALL DIGITAL signal but the monitor still requires a horizontal frequency otherwise as I understand it, you would have a straight vertical line instead of an image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattari Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I'm trying to get in touch with Simius to see if I can purchase one of his Sophia rev.C DVI boards, but I had a question about video inputs that are required from the monitor. Because of this thread, I assume it isn't as easy as plugging into a DVI port, or an HDMI port with a DVI to HDMI converter. Someone mentioned to me that I need to make certain the monitor is capable of accepting a 15kHz signal and that didn't make any sense to me. I know that's an issue with the analog signal when trying to connect an ST to a later VGA monitor, but I didn't think this was an issue with something like the Sophia. I thought I'd read that Sophia outputs a completely digital signal, so the horizontal frequency issue should be out the window, right? Or am I completely missing the boat on something? The 15khz signal they’re referring to was probably in reference to Simius’s other product, the Sophia RGB board. It outputs an analogue RGB signal at 15khz horizontal refresh. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I bought my Sophia rev C DVI board from Simius and have had it for a couple of weeks. I had no luck with the initial resolution on anything that I tried. With Simius' help, I was able to reprogram my Sophia for 1280x1024 and I am now looking at a beautiful picture on an older ASUS monitor. Now that I know it's working, I'll try it on every display I have in the house, monitors and TVs and will post my results. They will be a mix of ASUS, Samsung and NEC monitors and Samsung and LG TVs. Man! What a beautiful image! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 OK, I've checked my 800XL with Sophia Rev.C DVI with every display in the house. I can confirm that, at 1536x960, it worked with none of my three main monitors. At 1280x1024, it worked with every display in the house except for my ASUS gaming monitor. Every screen that it worked on had an unbelievably clear, beautiful image. Most screens tended to stretch the image initially, but the 4:3 aspect ratio was easily selectable from the menu of every display I tried. Here's the detail.Asus PG279Q 27" 1440p Gaming Monitor1536x960 - Doesn't work1280x1024 - Doesn't workASUS VW246H 24" 1080p Widescreen LCD Monitor1536x960 - Doesn't work1280x1024 - WorksNEC 19" MultiSync LCD1970VX LCD Monitor1536x960 - Doesn't work1280x1024 - WorksSamsung 398 Series C27F398 27" 16:9 Curved LCD Monitor1536x960 - Didn't test1280x1024 - WorksSamsung LN22C450 22-Inch 720p LCD HD TV1536x960 - Doesn't work1280x1024 - WorksSamsung 32"-LED-1080p-Smart-HD TV-UN32M5300A1536x960 - Didn't test1280x1024 - WorksSamsung 32"-LED-720p-Smart-TV-UN32J4500A1536x960 - Didn't test1280x1024 - WorksSamsung 50"-LED-2160p-Smart-4K Ultra HD TV-UN50KU63001536x960 - Didn't test1280x1024 - WorksSamsung 55"-LED-2160p-Smart-4K Ultra HD TV-UN55HU85501536x960 - Didn't test1280x1024 - WorksLG OLED65C8PUA 65" 4K Ultra HD Smart OLED TV1536x960 - Didn't test1280x1024 - Works 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I updated the complete list with my results from my previous post: List updated. Working:Model / Resolution / NTSC/PAL:Acer S200HLBbd 1600:900 NTSC / ?ASUS VE278Q 1280x1024 NTSC / ? (Using a DVI to HDMI video only cable, couldn't find a spare DVI/DVI cable, will update this soon as I do)ASUS VW246H 1280x1024 NTSC / ?BENQ BL3200PT 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Dell 1905FP 1280x1024 NTSC onlyDell U2412M: NTSC onlyDell U2913WM: NTSC/PALDell U3011 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ?/PALDell U3014: NTSC & PALHANNS-G, Modell HC194D 1280x1024 ? / PALHP EliteDisplay E241i 1536x960 ? / PALHP Compag LA2405x 1536x960 ? / PALHP LP2065 1536x960 ? / PALHP LP2465 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ? / PALLG 24MP47HQ: NTSC onlyLG 42LW650S (HD TV) 1600:900 NTSC onlyLG 55UH8509 (4K TV) 1600:900 NTSC / ?LG DM2352D-PZ (HD Monitor) 1600:900 NTSC & PAL OKLG E2242T: NTSC onlyLG E2441V: NTSC onlyLG IPS LED 24EB23 1536x960 ? / PALLG W2600H: NTSC and PALNEC Multisync LCD1970NX 1280x1024 NTSC / ?NEC MultiSync LCD1970VX 1280x1024 NTSC / ?NEC Multisync EA190M (Rev 1A) 1280x1024 NTSC / ?HP LP2465 NTSC & PALSamsung SyncMaster 2443BW 1536x960 ? / PALSamsung 398 Series C27F398 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Samsung LN22C450 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Samsung UN32M5300A 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Samsung UN32J4500A 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Samsung UN50KU6300 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Samsung UN55HU8550 1280x1024 NTSC / ?LG OLED65C8PUA 1280x1024 NTSC / ?Not working:Acer S243HL monitorAsus PG279Q 27" 1440p Gaming MonitorASUS VW246H doesn't work with 1536x960, works with 1280x1024Dell U2713HMDVDO iScan VP50 scaler (!)JVC DILA X7500 projectorHDFury VertexHP Compaq LA2205wgLumagen Vision HDP scaler (!)Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M (Elite 141 series) televisionSamsung LN22C450 doesn't work with 1536x960, works with 1280x1024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It would be nice to know how to reprogram the resolutions/timings... any chance you or Simius will share this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) It would be nice to know how to reprogram the resolutions/timings... any chance you or Simius will share this? I had to figure it all out on my own, so I'd be glad to help out with that. It starts out with you getting the proper pof file for the resolution that you want to change to though, and you can only get that from Simius. He doesn't want to make them readily available anywhere and asked me, and I'm assuming everyone else that he's helped, not to share the files, and I have to respect that even if I don't necessarily understand or agree. Understanding that, if you guys want me to put together some kind of work procedure, I'd be glad to. Edited April 25, 2019 by bfollowell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 If we can't get the 'pof' files, it's pretty useless. I assume there are only 3 or 4, 1 for each resolution? anyway, would have been nice to do this. Maybe Simius will allow us to share this someday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 If we can't get the 'pof' files, it's pretty useless. I assume there are only 3 or 4, 1 for each resolution? anyway, would have been nice to do this. Maybe Simius will allow us to share this someday Well, I got one, and several others have, so I'm assuming pretty much everyone that wants to get one can. It's just that Simius doesn't want to make them readily available for download at will. You just need to contact him directly and ask for the pof file for the specific resolution that you want. It's really not that big a deal. I have no idea why he doesn't want to make them available that way, but he has his reasons and I respect that. It's not like they aren't available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) NEC MultiSync EA193Mi-BK 1280x1024 : ? / PAL Edited July 30, 2021 by ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 2/6/2019 at 7:00 AM, jowi said: DVDO iScan VP50 scaler (!) Interesting... as soon as I find some time, I will try testing on the DVDO iScan VP50-Pro, and iScan HD/+ (NTSC) and see what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Updated List with Viewsonic VP950b: Working: Model / Resolution / NTSC/PAL: Acer S200HLBbd 1600:900 NTSC / ? ASUS VE278Q 1280x1024 NTSC / ? (Using a DVI to HDMI video only cable, couldn't find a spare DVI/DVI cable, will update this soon as I do) ASUS VW246H 1280x1024 NTSC / ? BENQ BL3200PT 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Dell 1905FP 1280x1024 NTSC only Dell U2412M: NTSC only Dell U2913WM: NTSC/PAL Dell U3011 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ?/PAL Dell U3014: NTSC & PAL HANNS-G, Modell HC194D 1280x1024 ? / PAL HP EliteDisplay E241i 1536x960 ? / PAL HP Compag LA2405x 1536x960 ? / PAL HP LP2065 1536x960 ? / PAL HP LP2465 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ? / PAL LG 24MP47HQ: NTSC only LG 42LW650S (HD TV) 1600:900 NTSC only LG 55UH8509 (4K TV) 1600:900 NTSC / ? LG DM2352D-PZ (HD Monitor) 1600:900 NTSC & PAL OK LG E2242T: NTSC only LG E2441V: NTSC only LG IPS LED 24EB23 1536x960 ? / PAL LG W2600H: NTSC and PAL NEC Multisync LCD1970NX 1280x1024 NTSC / ? NEC MultiSync LCD1970VX 1280x1024 NTSC / ? NEC Multisync EA190M (Rev 1A) 1280x1024 NTSC / ? HP LP2465 NTSC & PAL Samsung SyncMaster 2443BW 1536x960 ? / PAL Samsung 398 Series C27F398 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Samsung LN22C450 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Samsung UN32M5300A 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Samsung UN32J4500A 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Samsung UN50KU6300 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Samsung UN55HU8550 1280x1024 NTSC / ? LG OLED65C8PUA 1280x1024 NTSC / ? Viewsonic VP950b 720*480p & ALL presets NTSC / ? (NTSC aspect ok on 480p. Other presets with varying aspect-ratio. PAL-capable!). NOT working: Acer S243HL monitor Asus PG279Q 27" 1440p Gaming Monitor ASUS VW246H doesn't work with 1536x960, works with 1280x1024 Dell U2713HM DVDO iScan VP50 scaler (!) JVC DILA X7500 projector HDFury Vertex HP Compaq LA2205wg Lumagen Vision HDP scaler (!) Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M (Elite 141 series) television Samsung LN22C450 doesn't work with 1536x960, works with 1280x1024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 I can confirm that the Dell 1707FPt 4:3 IPS monitor doesn't work under any Sophia 2 resolution on a PAL 600XL. Strangely enough the 16:9 2007WFP Dell IPS variant works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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