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Sophia DVI compatible monitors

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2ms is nothing. You wouldn't even notice 20ms lag, unless you are 15 years old ;)

Read this:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274004-sophia-revc-dvi-board/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4052904

 

Sophia Rev.C itself does not introduce any extra processing delay.

When you use it with a PC Monitor, you will have very little lag (for example 5ms with Acer S200HLBbd, which is neglectable).

 

The most of TVs have a lag in a range of 100ms - 200ms in a normal mode, so you really have to remember to switch a TV to the game mode (to disable DSP processing) and you will end up with ~20ms lag.

 

Here is an overview showing example TVs lags:

https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&tab=wT&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dein-fernseher.de%2Finput-lag-fernseher

 

Anyway, your ATARI with SOPHIA Rev.C can still be connected to a CRT (over Composite Video), so you don't miss anything.

In my opinion Sophia is the most efficient way to enjoy your Atari in a living room ;-)

 

I agree that the Sophia is a nice option to have moving forward as CRT's are becoming harder to find and more expensive.

 

And I also agree 2ms is not a huge lag time. I was sort of mixing two thoughts together above and I mistakenly said refresh rate when I meant response time(the rate at which a pixel can change color).

 

A 2ms response time however is very slow. The response time of a CRT's pixels is over 1000 times faster than an LCD. The only thing that comes close to a CRT's response time is an OLED/QLED at 10us, and right now those are quite expensive and that's still over ten times slower. And funnily enough they get screen burn in just like a CRT.

 

But anyways, I'm just saying when combing lag time with response response time, I get why people like to hold on to CRT's. ;)

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I agree that the Sophia is a nice option to have moving forward as CRT's are becoming harder to find and more expensive.

 

And I also agree 2ms is not a huge lag time. I was sort of mixing two thoughts together above and I mistakenly said refresh rate when I meant response time(the rate at which a pixel can change color).

 

A 2ms response time however is very slow. The response time of a CRT's pixels is over 1000 times faster than an LCD. The only thing that comes close to a CRT's response time is an OLED/QLED at 10us, and right now those are quite expensive and that's still over ten times slower. And funnily enough they get screen burn in just like a CRT.

 

But anyways, I'm just saying when combing lag time with response response time, I get why people like to hold on to CRT's. ;)

 

Yes CRTs can be extremely fast, with minimal lag time, but 2 ms is 100 times faster than the average younger person's reaction time. And if you are over 24 years old it only gets worse. So I would conclude that a 2 ms lag would not be noticeable, and certainly not affect your game play. Not unless you are an AI on a super computer :) .

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lag is additive and as you get older, and 200ms plus how slow you are as you age = failed mission on many games. I know for a fact I can play tempest 2k on the Jaguar like a mad man on CRT, my family tried watching and could keep up with me with all the melto vision explosions and ridiculous numbers of bad guys I creamed level after level after level... I would play all night... When we got the Visio and Samsung flat panels, I was the one getting creamed no matter what mode I set them in (and they were not cheap... I then tried and older Olevia set with almost the same result... I used and LG with all the bells and whistles turned off for raw power and lowest lag, it didn't look great but I fared better. I thought I couldn't play at those levels and my abilities had failed me... Grabbed an old sc1224 hooked it up and wouldn't you know played half the night! woot

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lag is additive and as you get older, and 200ms plus how slow you are as you age = failed mission on many games. I know for a fact I can play tempest 2k on the Jaguar like a mad man on CRT, my family tried watching and could keep up with me with all the melto vision explosions and ridiculous numbers of bad guys I creamed level after level after level... I would play all night... When we got the Visio and Samsung flat panels, I was the one getting creamed no matter what mode I set them in (and they were not cheap... I then tried and older Olevia set with almost the same result... I used and LG with all the bells and whistles turned off for raw power and lowest lag, it didn't look great but I fared better. I thought I couldn't play at those levels and my abilities had failed me... Grabbed an old sc1224 hooked it up and wouldn't you know played half the night! woot

 

I agree that if the LCD lag was 200 ms that would be noticeable since adding in your own 200+ ms of delayed reaction time would make it pretty close to 1/2 a second. But if the LCD is only experiencing a 2 ms delay, that would be invisible to even a 15 year old gamer.

 

For myself, I would say my personal lag time is probably already close to a 1/2 second without any help from a slow LCD :grin: .

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lag is additive and as you get older, and 200ms plus how slow you are as you age = failed mission on many games. I know for a fact I can play tempest 2k on the Jaguar like a mad man on CRT, my family tried watching and could keep up with me with all the melto vision explosions and ridiculous numbers of bad guys I creamed level after level after level... I would play all night... When we got the Visio and Samsung flat panels, I was the one getting creamed no matter what mode I set them in (and they were not cheap... I then tried and older Olevia set with almost the same result... I used and LG with all the bells and whistles turned off for raw power and lowest lag, it didn't look great but I fared better. I thought I couldn't play at those levels and my abilities had failed me... Grabbed an old sc1224 hooked it up and wouldn't you know played half the night! woot

 

Now I see the point.

The electronics for analog video processing (if supported at all) is definitely not in focus of modern TVs manufacturers. The picture quality and lags are usually so bad that even the game mode won't help much.

I agree that connecting the ATARI via composite video to a modern TV makes little sense.

 

However things really change if your computer is equipped with SOPHIA and provides a digital video signal :)

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List updated.

 

Working:

Model / Resolution / NTSC/PAL:

Acer S200HLBbd 1600:900 NTSC / ?
ASUS VE278Q 1280x1024 NTSC / ? (Using a DVI to HDMI video only cable, couldn't find a

spare DVI/DVI cable, will update this soon as I do)

BENQ BL3200PT 1280x1024 NTSC / ?

Dell 1905FP 1280x1024 NTSC only
Dell U2412M: NTSC only
Dell U2913WM: NTSC/PAL
Dell U3011 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ?/PAL
Dell U3014: NTSC & PAL

HANNS-G, Modell HC194D 1280x1024 ? / PAL
HP EliteDisplay E241i 1536x960 ? / PAL
HP Compag LA2405x 1536x960 ? / PAL
HP LP2065 1536x960 ? / PAL
HP LP2465 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ? / PAL

LG 24MP47HQ: NTSC only
LG 42LW650S (HD TV) 1600:900 NTSC only
LG 55UH8509 (4K TV) 1600:900 NTSC / ?
LG DM2352D-PZ (HD Monitor) 1600:900 NTSC & PAL OK
LG E2242T: NTSC only
LG E2441V: NTSC only
LG IPS LED 24EB23 1536x960 ? / PAL
LG W2600H: NTSC and PAL

NEC Multisync LCD1970NX 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
NEC Multisync EA190M (Rev 1A) 1280x1024 NTSC / ?

HP LP2465 NTSC & PAL

Samsung SyncMaster 2443BW 1536x960 ? / PAL


Not working:

Acer S243HL monitor
Dell U2713HM
DVDO iScan VP50 scaler (!)
JVC DILA X7500 projector
HDFury Vertex
HP Compaq LA2205wg
Lumagen Vision HDP scaler (!)
Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M (Elite 141 series) television

Edited by Sleepy

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Yes CRTs can be extremely fast, with minimal lag time, but 2 ms is 100 times faster than the average younger person's reaction time. And if you are over 24 years old it only gets worse. So I would conclude that a 2 ms lag would not be noticeable, and certainly not affect your game play. Not unless you are an AI on a super computer :) .

I think I've confused people about what I'm saying. Hopefully this screen shot clears it up. CRT on the left, LCD on the right. You can see the lag, guy on the left has completed his somersault. But more importantly the response time and the point I was trying to make in the other posts, a ghost/fuzzy/blurry image, because the pixels can't update fast enough. ;-)

 

 

YouTube video where screen shot was taken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JUbCoLKxs

post-40949-0-69808600-1550259297_thumb.jpg

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exactly, and the still frame fuzz etc. is what they call motion blurring in an effort to cover for and to fool your brain into thinking the motion is smooth...

 

thank you for the side by side actual on this, as folks seeing may lead to understanding and believing the truth of the matter....

Edited by _The Doctor__
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Am I the only one who gets an image from Sophia just fine, but the monitor displays an error over the screen until the OSD times out and then the screen goes to sleep?

 

I have an HP S2031 (NTSC). I get a white box in the middle of a perfect Atari screen that says:

 

Input out of range

Change settings to 1600 x 900 60Hz

If I go to monitor status it says:

Current settings: H=62.8KHz V=60Hz

Recommended settings: 1600x900 - 60Hz

WTF does 62.8KHz by 60Hz mean and why does the monitor display it but not like it? Before someone states the obvious, yes I know the horizontal frequency is 62.8 KHz and the vertical frequency is 60 Hz. I mean in the scheme of things, what does 62.8KHz x 60Hz mean as far as resolutions?

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Compatible monitor with HDMI port:

 

AOC E2070Sw +/? (NTSC works, PAL unknown)

 

One caveat, this monitor has no controls other than power so switching between the VGA and HDMI ports is a bit difficult. I have my PC's VGA going to the monitor through a VGA extension cable and I"m unplugging the extension to break the VGA so I can use the Atari. Conversely, the HDMI signal has to be cut before it will switch back to VGA.

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I'm trying to get in touch with Simius to see if I can purchase one of his Sophia rev.C DVI boards, but I had a question about video inputs that are required from the monitor. Because of this thread, I assume it isn't as easy as plugging into a DVI port, or an HDMI port with a DVI to HDMI converter. Someone mentioned to me that I need to make certain the monitor is capable of accepting a 15kHz signal and that didn't make any sense to me. I know that's an issue with the analog signal when trying to connect an ST to a later VGA monitor, but I didn't think this was an issue with something like the Sophia. I thought I'd read that Sophia outputs a completely digital signal, so the horizontal frequency issue should be out the window, right?

 

Or am I completely missing the boat on something?

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I'm trying to get in touch with Simius to see if I can purchase one of his Sophia rev.C DVI boards, but I had a question about video inputs that are required from the monitor. Because of this thread, I assume it isn't as easy as plugging into a DVI port, or an HDMI port with a DVI to HDMI converter. Someone mentioned to me that I need to make certain the monitor is capable of accepting a 15kHz signal and that didn't make any sense to me. I know that's an issue with the analog signal when trying to connect an ST to a later VGA monitor, but I didn't think this was an issue with something like the Sophia. I thought I'd read that Sophia outputs a completely digital signal, so the horizontal frequency issue should be out the window, right?

 

Or am I completely missing the boat on something?

My HP s2031, although not liking the video signal, said the input signal was H: 62.8KHz and V: 60Hz. I still do not know exactly what the HP monitor didn't like about the signal since 62.8KHz is well within its supported horizontal frequencies.

 

And YES, it is an ALL DIGITAL signal but the monitor still requires a horizontal frequency otherwise as I understand it, you would have a straight vertical line instead of an image.

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I'm trying to get in touch with Simius to see if I can purchase one of his Sophia rev.C DVI boards, but I had a question about video inputs that are required from the monitor. Because of this thread, I assume it isn't as easy as plugging into a DVI port, or an HDMI port with a DVI to HDMI converter. Someone mentioned to me that I need to make certain the monitor is capable of accepting a 15kHz signal and that didn't make any sense to me. I know that's an issue with the analog signal when trying to connect an ST to a later VGA monitor, but I didn't think this was an issue with something like the Sophia. I thought I'd read that Sophia outputs a completely digital signal, so the horizontal frequency issue should be out the window, right?

 

Or am I completely missing the boat on something?

The 15khz signal they’re referring to was probably in reference to Simius’s other product, the Sophia RGB board. It outputs an analogue RGB signal at 15khz horizontal refresh.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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I bought my Sophia rev C DVI board from Simius and have had it for a couple of weeks. I had no luck with the initial resolution on anything that I tried. With Simius' help, I was able to reprogram my Sophia for 1280x1024 and I am now looking at a beautiful picture on an older ASUS monitor. Now that I know it's working, I'll try it on every display I have in the house, monitors and TVs and will post my results. They will be a mix of ASUS, Samsung and NEC monitors and Samsung and LG TVs.

 

Man! What a beautiful image!

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OK, I've checked my 800XL with Sophia Rev.C DVI with every display in the house. I can confirm that, at 1536x960, it worked with none of my three main monitors. At 1280x1024, it worked with every display in the house except for my ASUS gaming monitor. Every screen that it worked on had an unbelievably clear, beautiful image. Most screens tended to stretch the image initially, but the 4:3 aspect ratio was easily selectable from the menu of every display I tried. Here's the detail.


Asus PG279Q 27" 1440p Gaming Monitor
1536x960 - Doesn't work
1280x1024 - Doesn't work

ASUS VW246H 24" 1080p Widescreen LCD Monitor
1536x960 - Doesn't work
1280x1024 - Works

NEC 19" MultiSync LCD1970VX LCD Monitor
1536x960 - Doesn't work
1280x1024 - Works

Samsung 398 Series C27F398 27" 16:9 Curved LCD Monitor
1536x960 - Didn't test
1280x1024 - Works

Samsung LN22C450 22-Inch 720p LCD HD TV
1536x960 - Doesn't work
1280x1024 - Works

Samsung 32"-LED-1080p-Smart-HD TV-UN32M5300A
1536x960 - Didn't test
1280x1024 - Works

Samsung 32"-LED-720p-Smart-TV-UN32J4500A
1536x960 - Didn't test
1280x1024 - Works

Samsung 50"-LED-2160p-Smart-4K Ultra HD TV-UN50KU6300
1536x960 - Didn't test
1280x1024 - Works

Samsung 55"-LED-2160p-Smart-4K Ultra HD TV-UN55HU8550
1536x960 - Didn't test
1280x1024 - Works

LG OLED65C8PUA 65" 4K Ultra HD Smart OLED TV
1536x960 - Didn't test
1280x1024 - Works

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I updated the complete list with my results from my previous post:

 

 

List updated.



Working:

Model / Resolution / NTSC/PAL:

Acer S200HLBbd 1600:900 NTSC / ?
ASUS VE278Q 1280x1024 NTSC / ? (Using a DVI to HDMI video only cable, couldn't find a spare DVI/DVI cable, will update this soon as I do)
ASUS VW246H 1280x1024 NTSC / ?

BENQ BL3200PT 1280x1024 NTSC / ?

Dell 1905FP 1280x1024 NTSC only
Dell U2412M: NTSC only
Dell U2913WM: NTSC/PAL
Dell U3011 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ?/PAL
Dell U3014: NTSC & PAL

HANNS-G, Modell HC194D 1280x1024 ? / PAL
HP EliteDisplay E241i 1536x960 ? / PAL
HP Compag LA2405x 1536x960 ? / PAL
HP LP2065 1536x960 ? / PAL
HP LP2465 1280x960 & 1280x1024 ? / PAL

LG 24MP47HQ: NTSC only
LG 42LW650S (HD TV) 1600:900 NTSC only
LG 55UH8509 (4K TV) 1600:900 NTSC / ?
LG DM2352D-PZ (HD Monitor) 1600:900 NTSC & PAL OK
LG E2242T: NTSC only
LG E2441V: NTSC only
LG IPS LED 24EB23 1536x960 ? / PAL
LG W2600H: NTSC and PAL

NEC Multisync LCD1970NX 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
NEC MultiSync LCD1970VX 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
NEC Multisync EA190M (Rev 1A) 1280x1024 NTSC / ?

HP LP2465 NTSC & PAL

Samsung SyncMaster 2443BW 1536x960 ? / PAL
Samsung 398 Series C27F398 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
Samsung LN22C450 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
Samsung UN32M5300A 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
Samsung UN32J4500A 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
Samsung UN50KU6300 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
Samsung UN55HU8550 1280x1024 NTSC / ?
LG OLED65C8PUA 1280x1024 NTSC / ?


Not working:

Acer S243HL monitor
Asus PG279Q 27" 1440p Gaming Monitor
ASUS VW246H doesn't work with 1536x960, works with 1280x1024
Dell U2713HM
DVDO iScan VP50 scaler (!)
JVC DILA X7500 projector
HDFury Vertex
HP Compaq LA2205wg
Lumagen Vision HDP scaler (!)
Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M (Elite 141 series) television
Samsung LN22C450 doesn't work with 1536x960, works with 1280x1024

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It would be nice to know how to reprogram the resolutions/timings... any chance you or Simius will share this?

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Posted (edited)

It would be nice to know how to reprogram the resolutions/timings... any chance you or Simius will share this?

 

I had to figure it all out on my own, so I'd be glad to help out with that. It starts out with you getting the proper pof file for the resolution that you want to change to though, and you can only get that from Simius. He doesn't want to make them readily available anywhere and asked me, and I'm assuming everyone else that he's helped, not to share the files, and I have to respect that even if I don't necessarily understand or agree.

 

Understanding that, if you guys want me to put together some kind of work procedure, I'd be glad to.

Edited by bfollowell

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If we can't get the 'pof' files, it's pretty useless. I assume there are only 3 or 4, 1 for each resolution? anyway, would have been nice to do this. Maybe Simius will allow us to share this someday :)

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If we can't get the 'pof' files, it's pretty useless. I assume there are only 3 or 4, 1 for each resolution? anyway, would have been nice to do this. Maybe Simius will allow us to share this someday :)

Well, I got one, and several others have, so I'm assuming pretty much everyone that wants to get one can. It's just that Simius doesn't want to make them readily available for download at will. You just need to contact him directly and ask for the pof file for the specific resolution that you want. It's really not that big a deal. I have no idea why he doesn't want to make them available that way, but he has his reasons and I respect that. It's not like they aren't available.

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