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Tommy Tallarico - Fun Amico Conversations

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Tommy, so I was wondering, since it was said Cornhole was more difficult to make because of the lack of the sensor bar to determine arm movement for arc and no magnetometer, like in smart phones, could there be an advanced version of the game that uses the magnetometer and altimeter in the phone?

 

Edit: Unless they come up with something new, an altimeter is only accurate to within 15 feet or maybe meters, either way, not applicable. However, I have heard from several people that the wii remote did not require the sensor bar after the gyroscope was added, which is why the Switch Joycons do not need one. There is basically nothing on the web about Wii Motion Plus vs Joycon capabilities. One joycon has a camera, but it is apparently no for motion sensing as there is no sensor bar either visible or hidden.

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1 hour ago, Swami said:

However, I have heard from several people that the wii remote did not require the sensor bar after the gyroscope was added, which is why the Switch Joycons do not need one. There is basically nothing on the web about Wii Motion Plus vs Joycon capabilities. One joycon has a camera, but it is apparently no for motion sensing as there is no sensor bar either visible or hidden.

 

The Wii sensor bar is not actually a sensor but two IR emitters.  The sensor is in the Wiimote itself.  Kind of like a light gun. If you don't have a bar, you could actually just use two tea candles and get the remote to work that way.  Sadly the little LED fake candles do not seem to work.

 

In any case, I don't believe you need the sensor bar for anything but using the onscreen pointer in most games.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think most of the motion controls used the accelerometer or whatever was in there pre-MotionPlus and just essentially mapped button presses to readings on that, which explains why so much of the motion controls were bad on it.

 

The Switch seems to have better gear inside, but I think it's all the same principle.  If I'm not mistaken, the camera in the right-hand one can be used essentially the same way as the Wiimote pointer, but the camera can actually read the position on the TV itself rather than rely on the emitters to find the position.

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2 hours ago, MrTrust said:

 

The Switch seems to have better gear inside, but I think it's all the same principle.  If I'm not mistaken, the camera in the right-hand one can be used essentially the same way as the Wiimote pointer, but the camera can actually read the position on the TV itself rather than rely on the emitters to find the position.

Where did you read that the camera in the remote can aim using the TV itself. I know there is all the Labo activities, but I'm skeptical it can do that. Also, motion games like Exercise Boxing on the Switch use both Joycons. You have to aim to hit your target/opponent.

 

My question then would be, though, if you don't need the sensor bar and camera for "motion plus" or Switch games, why is it necessary to measure how far your arm moves in Cornhole to determine arc on the fly?

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Okay. So this video explains it all. The Switch motion controls are doing the best they can with accelerometer and gyroscope and no absolute frame of reference like the sensor bar allows. You can see he is doing everything with the IR sensor pointed away from the screen towards himself. However, without the sensor bar, you have what is called gyroscopic drift, because you don't have an absolute frame of reference like you do with the sensor bar. Instead, if you drift, due to moving your body's center of mass position around a lot or having it pointing off screen a lot or just using it for a long time, you have to center it on the screen and press "+" to recalibrate. BTW, you had to do this with the OF Wii sometimes if the OG wiimote lost track of the sensor bar a lot or with games like Skyward Sword that didn't use the sensor bar except for the initial calibration. However, this doesn't tell me much about what, if anything, the sensor bar would add to determining Cornhole throwing arc.

 

So, more questions:

1. How does the WiiWare title's Bags determine arc or does it use a preset one?

2. Is there a cornhole type of game on the Switch and how does it determine how far your arm moves, when most of the swing is off-screen?

3. Am I completely off and arc setting is just optional in Amico Cornhole?

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

@Tommy Tallarico

I was in the grocery store this morning and while walking around I saw kool-aid.

Was thinking the Amico target audience and the Kool-Aid target audience is pretty aligned.

 

Maybe Intellivision and Kool-Aid need to reunite.  I have no clue/concept of a game..  But it could be super exclusive.  Only available for package points. 

Of course, I would then need to buy kool-aid.  I haven't tasted that stuff since 1984 or so. 

 

Maybe a pacman type game that you crash through the wall after eating all the sugar cubes?  Wait, do we still allow sugar these days?  sweetener packets!

——————————————————————————-

There was the Kool-Aid Man game on the Intellivision back in the day. Maybe a reimagined version of that game? 

 

 

Edited by timbofry1
Separate my post from original…

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7 hours ago, Swami said:

Where did you read that the camera in the remote can aim using the TV itself. I know there is all the Labo activities, but I'm skeptical it can do that.

 

It was long enough ago I'd never be able to find it again.  I thought it was a review of some old Wii game that was rereleased and they were complaining specifically about gyro aiming.  Whether or not it actually works I wouldn't know.  I've never seen or played a game that uses it for anything.  I doesn't seem all that far fetched to me if you either had it tracking the reticle itself, or a cleverly disguised set of bright spots on the HUD or something like that.

 

7 hours ago, Swami said:

My question then would be, though, if you don't need the sensor bar and camera for "motion plus" or Switch games, why is it necessary to measure how far your arm moves in Cornhole to determine arc on the fly?

 

"Determine arc" could have a few different meanings, but like the Wiimote can't distinguish between a fast flick of the wrist or an actual hard bowling stroke (grow up, snickerers), or if it can, no actual game I encountered on it did, you might have a similar problem on Amico.

 

Again, the sensor bar isn't a sensor bar and the IR camera on the Wii just basically gives you mouse coordinates, which you theoretically could use to adjust the direction of your throw.  Similar to how golf video games have you pull the thumbstick down and then push it up as straight as possible, or use a trackball for the same thing.  Other than that, it's tough to see how it would give you information about the velocity with much range.

5 hours ago, Swami said:

1. How does the WiiWare title's Bags determine arc or does it use a preset one?

 

Port of an arcade game.  You pre-aim and it uses the accelerometer to get the "power" of the throw.  Probably not very accurate.

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7 hours ago, Swami said:

So, more questions:

1. How does the WiiWare title's Bags determine arc or does it use a preset one?

2. Is there a cornhole type of game on the Switch and how does it determine how far your arm moves, when most of the swing is off-screen?

3. Am I completely off and arc setting is just optional in Amico Cornhole?

 

 

 

To answer Question #2, Party Arcade (which goes for $20 on Amazon and at Wal-Mart here in the States) has a cornhole game on it, along with a few others.  Also Carnival Games, while I don't think it has cornhole on it, does have skee ball and 19 other co-op games.

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1 hour ago, Hwlngmad said:

To answer Question #2, Party Arcade (which goes for $20 on Amazon and at Wal-Mart here in the States) has a cornhole game on it, along with a few others.  Also Carnival Games, while I don't think it has cornhole on it, does have skee ball and 19 other co-op games.

I played a lot of those games on the Wii. Been too long to remember. I seem to remember a skeeball game had pretty much everything pre-set. Ultimately, all you have to know, then, is how to set the presets. Aiming becomes pointless. Haven't tried them on the Switch. I'll have to check out some videos. Maybe somebody's played them recently on Switch and seen if you can affect arc by how high you swing your arm before releasing the thrown object.

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23 minutes ago, Swami said:

I played a lot of those games on the Wii. Been too long to remember. I seem to remember a skeeball game had pretty much everything pre-set. Ultimately, all you have to know, then, is how to set the presets. Aiming becomes pointless. Haven't tried them on the Switch. I'll have to check out some videos. Maybe somebody's played them recently on Switch and seen if you can affect arc by how high you swing your arm before releasing the thrown object.

I have a Skee Ball game on the Switch.  It's okay, you have to use both Joy-Cons to play.  When trying to throw the ball it doesn't always go the way you think it will.  It just feels weird playing the game.  The calibration seems to go crazy at times.  Like after throwing the ball the arrow indicator starts facing a different direction.  Also, there's this issue that occurs with the ball at the bottom of the screen where it starts slowly moving to the left for some reason before you throw it.  Not sure what that's about?  Probably a glitch.  Overall the game is decent but not like the real thing.  I prefer playing Skee Ball in real life compared to a simulation.  Funny enough I'm better at the real thing then the video game.  

 

By the way, Tommy said that there would be a Skee Ball game on Amico.  I hope it's better than the Switch version.

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1 hour ago, Intellivision Master said:

I have a Skee Ball game on the Switch.  It's okay, you have to use both Joy-Cons to play.  When trying to throw the ball it doesn't always go the way you think it will.  It just feels weird playing the game.  The calibration seems to go crazy at times.  Like after throwing the ball the arrow indicator starts facing a different direction.  Also, there's this issue that occurs with the ball at the bottom of the screen where it starts slowly moving to the left for some reason before you throw it.  Not sure what that's about?  Probably a glitch.  Overall the game is decent but not like the real thing.  I prefer playing Skee Ball in real life compared to a simulation.  Funny enough I'm better at the real thing then the video game.  

 

By the way, Tommy said that there would be a Skee Ball game on Amico.  I hope it's better than the Switch version.

Yeah. This Xavix bowling shows some weird quirks. Should have been more Xavix games like these, just for the collecting fun of it.

 

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I’m ready for launch date news. If not In October then hopefully some units by the end of the year. Honestly, parts being expensive will not change overnight or anytime soon. It will be a gradual process. They might be more expensive for months or years so they need to find solutions for that problem. I don’t want to hear that this is still a problem in a year.  (Assuming the games are actually ready of course, can’t launch without games 😜 ) I will pay anything  💰 😎

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27 minutes ago, Cranker said:

I’m ready for launch date news. If not In October then hopefully some units by the end of the year. Honestly, parts being expensive will not change overnight or anytime soon. It will be a gradual process. They might be more expensive for months or years so they need to find solutions for that problem. I don’t want to hear that this is still a problem in a year.  (Assuming the games are actually ready of course, can’t launch without games 😜 ) I will pay anything  💰 😎

$30 or $50 more may not sway you or me (and preorders not withstanding), but it would likely result in thousands or 10’s of thousands less units sold. That being said, think typical business practice for current supply would be to release the first non-presale units at a higher price then reduce as things are able to scale (from a purely supply/demand price perspective, there are always other considerations) 

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4 hours ago, Starpaddler said:

$30 or $50 more may not sway you or me (and preorders not withstanding), but it would likely result in thousands or 10’s of thousands less units sold. That being said, think typical business practice for current supply would be to release the first non-presale units at a higher price then reduce as things are able to scale (from a purely supply/demand price perspective, there are always other considerations) 

I agree with what you said. I guess following the news basically everyday will make it extra frustrating if there are no units rehearsed this year.  

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Will people really care when this releases a decade from now? This should have come out two years ago and for the price point you can get a Nintendo Switch with the same type of games albeit shovel ware off of the e-Shop. Tommy mishandled this console from the start and bit off more than he could chew. 

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Let me expand on "wack":

 

They need to delay the launch and fix Cornhole, if necessary.  It needs to be full motion control or nothing.  Personally, I would never play this game in its current iteration. They need to continue to be honest and open about what happened.  Don't get me wrong, I want this thing released as soon as possible.  The other games look good and ready to go, so I don't know what happened. Maybe, replace Cornhole as a pack-in game?

 

You can only make a first impression once, so the launch needs to be perfect.

 

The console's target is fun and simple game play.  What I saw with the Cornhole game play is the antithesis of fun and simple.

Edited by Stoke
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3 minutes ago, Stoke said:

Let me expand on "wack":

 

They need to delay the launch and fix Cornhole, if necessary.  It needs to be full motion control or nothing.  Personally, I would never play this game in its current iteration. They need to continue to be honest and open about what happened.  Don't get me wrong, I want this thing released as soon as possible.  The other games look good and ready to go, so I don't know what happened. Maybe, replace Cornhole as a pack-in game?

 

I have a Founders and VIP on order. I am also an investor.  You can only make a first impression once, so the launch needs to be perfect.

 

The console's target is fun and simple game play.  What I saw with the Cornhole game play is the antithesis of simplicity.

Concerning to say the least. Saw very little footage when the game looked great. Now see new footage of some very complicated motion controls.

 

At least for they are working on it.

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4 hours ago, Q_BertZ said:

Will people really care when this releases a decade from now? This should have come out two years ago and for the price point you can get a Nintendo Switch with the same type of games albeit shovel ware off of the e-Shop. Tommy mishandled this console from the start and bit off more than he could chew. 

This is a strange thing to say. I’m not sure how you think this was mishandled but nobody saw a global pandemic happening that basically shut down the world for a year+.  There is no way to plan for that or the fact that shipping costs would triple or that parts would get so expensive because of the long shutdown/slowdown of manufacturing and scarcity 

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1 hour ago, Stoke said:

Let me expand on "wack":

 

They need to delay the launch and fix Cornhole, if necessary.  It needs to be full motion control or nothing.  Personally, I would never play this game in its current iteration. They need to continue to be honest and open about what happened.  Don't get me wrong, I want this thing released as soon as possible.  The other games look good and ready to go, so I don't know what happened. Maybe, replace Cornhole as a pack-in game?

 

You can only make a first impression once, so the launch needs to be perfect.

 

The console's target is fun and simple game play.  What I saw with the Cornhole game play is the antithesis of fun and simple.

 

1 hour ago, MarioMan88 said:

Concerning to say the least. Saw very little footage when the game looked great. Now see new footage of some very complicated motion controls.

 

At least for they are working on it.

It’s not clear there is a problem with the game. Horizontal positioning using the controller dpad is pretty common to help avoid furniture. Even Wii bowling and most of its tennis games had it. In tennis, running to the ball was often automatic. It’s uncertain whether anything like the Wii or Switch could do arc fully with motion control. You might only be able to do that with VR where you have sensors in corners of the room. If you are setting the actual path from the thrower to the hole, like in some cheap Wii bowling games, that would be different, but from what I could see, after setting the arc, if you twist your wrist, it goes off course, so your path is not preset.  I think I would need a little more information before making any conclusions about the game’s state. Also, I don’t recall Nintendo or any of its third party groups revealing what physics are and are not completely motion dependent in motion games like bowling and tennis games. 

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There's no way the computer/controller can know where you are standing and what direction you are throwing in.  That has to be done visually with on screen graphics.  That leaves the vertical angle and velocity.  Both are being done with motion control and doesn't look complicated at all.  Although the vertical angle isn't being done by a throwing motion it's still using intuitive motion control.

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2 minutes ago, mr_me said:

There's no way the computer/controller can know where you are standing and what direction you are throwing in.  That has to be done visually with on screen graphics.  That leaves the vertical angle and velocity.  Both are being done with motion control and doesn't look complicated at all.  Although the vertical angle isn't being done by a throwing motion it's still using intuitive motion control.


Exactly.

I would kindly ask that folks judge the controls after they had a chance to play it. 

Folks may not remember that the first thing you do in Wii Bowling is position the player where you want to stand.

The controls for Cornhole were never "broken"... they just weren't in a place where we wanted them to be from a FUN factor.  I guess if you wanted to say they were broken from a fun standpoint... you could make that argument. 

At some point I think people need to realize that we are making the games as fun as possible and that we know what we're doing. 

There have been dozens of people who have played Amico and reported on how fun it was and how great the games were. 

Zero reason for us to want to sabotage a pack-in game.  

:)

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

At some point I think people need to realize that we are making the games as fun as possible and that we know what we're doing. 

 

That was a real standout point for me at the Frisco event, the games are straight up fun (and that is a lot harder to achieve that some may think). There are tons of games that are all graphics but simply aren't that great of games *cough*Assassin Creed Unity*cough, *cough*No Mans Sky (before they fixed the gameplay)*cough*. Amico game graphics are good, but are only like quality indie games & the while the audio is typically exceptional, you kind of expect that with Tommy being involved. The playability, however, is solidly very high - they are simply fun to play. Super Mario is still fun to play & the cloud graphics are also the bushes. Tetris graphics are laughable by today's standards but it still is a great game. Candy Crush & Plants v Zombies wouldn't strain the humblest modern processor but have sold in the 100 millions. Retro people know the fun isn't in the graphics or the sound (although can help somewhat) but is in the mechanics.

 

Kudo's to Intellivision for making sure the motion controls in Cornhole are solid. That is showing the commitment to making each game worthy of your purchase - and this one is included, you don't even have to buy it - which is even more impressive.

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