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410 not working


johndotpizza

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What happens if you try this without a cassette in it? Do the capstans, etc. turn if the play button is engaged?

 

I'd also recommend checking to see if the tape counter advances (or regresses) under fast forward, rewind, and playback.

 

 

If you have an audio cassette try putting it in and BASIC cart

Type in:

POKE 54018,52

You should be able to hear the audio play through your Atari/TV speakers

 

Tried all of this. Nothing will "play" the tape. It never budges.

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At this point, it's not clear if the problem is in the 410 or the 800. My gut tells me it's probably the 410, but there are a couple of things in the 800 that could be causing this. Without having another known-working cassette drive, though, there's no quick & easy test to determine if it's the computer or the drive.

 

One other possibility is that the SIO cable attached to the 410 has an internal break or bad pins at the connector, but, again, there's no quick & easy test for that; if you're OK with opening up the drive and checking continuity at the PCB, though, it's a possibility.

 

Have you gone through any of the steps in the service manual?

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At this point, it's not clear if the problem is in the 410 or the 800. My gut tells me it's probably the 410, but there are a couple of things in the 800 that could be causing this. Without having another known-working cassette drive, though, there's no quick & easy test to determine if it's the computer or the drive.

 

One other possibility is that the SIO cable attached to the 410 has an internal break or bad pins at the connector, but, again, there's no quick & easy test for that; if you're OK with opening up the drive and checking continuity at the PCB, though, it's a possibility.

 

Have you gone through any of the steps in the service manual?

I have not. Other than the belt that needed replacing everything seems to be in good condition inside and out. I also replaced the entire power board in the 800 since the original was fried. The new one was advertised as tested and working so hopefully that applies to the serial connection as well. I don't know much about this stuff so I don't know what to look for.

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I have not. Other than the belt that needed replacing everything seems to be in good condition inside and out. I also replaced the entire power board in the 800 since the original was fried. The new one was advertised as tested and working so hopefully that applies to the serial connection as well. I don't know much about this stuff so I don't know what to look for.

 

Since you say you have a replacement power PCB arriving for the 800, replace that first and see what happens. If it doesn't fix the problem, you're going to have to open the 410 up again and spend some quality time with it, the field service manual, and a multimeter.

 

From what I recall, motor control power to the 410 (or other Atari cassette drives) is provided from the motherboard of the host computer via the SIO cable, not from the internal power supply in the 410. Make sure that those voltages are making it through correctly.

 

If something is not right with the play switch on the 410, that could conceivably be preventing playback (or recording, for that matter) even if the motor control voltages check out OK.

 

Also check the pins on the SIO connector at the 800 to verify that the control voltage are actually being sent. Having an SIO cable around to use as an extension / breakout lead makes this a lot easier to deal with, but will rule out that potential problem as being centred on the 800 or the 410.

 

We've probably gone about as far as we can with remote troubleshooting for the time being. Opening things up and poking around is going to be necessary if the 800 power PCB replacement doesn't fix the issue.

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Since you say you have a replacement power PCB arriving for the 800, replace that first and see what happens. If it doesn't fix the problem, you're going to have to open the 410 up again and spend some quality time with it, the field service manual, and a multimeter.

 

From what I recall, motor control power to the 410 (or other Atari cassette drives) is provided from the motherboard of the host computer via the SIO cable, not from the internal power supply in the 410. Make sure that those voltages are making it through correctly.

 

If something is not right with the play switch on the 410, that could conceivably be preventing playback (or recording, for that matter) even if the motor control voltages check out OK.

 

Also check the pins on the SIO connector at the 800 to verify that the control voltage are actually being sent. Having an SIO cable around to use as an extension / breakout lead makes this a lot easier to deal with, but will rule out that potential problem as being centred on the 800 or the 410.

 

We've probably gone about as far as we can with remote troubleshooting for the time being. Opening things up and poking around is going to be necessary if the 800 power PCB replacement doesn't fix the issue.

Sorry should have been more clear. I replaced the power board a couple weeks ago because the original was fried and didn't work at all. I mentioned that because the eBay listing for the new (current) one said it was tested so I'm hoping that goes for the serial connection as well.

 

Is there somewhere I could send this in to be fixed? I don't really want to spend any more time on trying to get it to work. Just don't have the time right now and I really just want it to work for a video project. Maybe buying a used, working one would be cheaper than a fix?

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Sorry should have been more clear. I replaced the power board a couple weeks ago because the original was fried and didn't work at all. I mentioned that because the eBay listing for the new (current) one said it was tested so I'm hoping that goes for the serial connection as well.

 

Is there somewhere I could send this in to be fixed? I don't really want to spend any more time on trying to get it to work. Just don't have the time right now and I really just want it to work for a video project. Maybe buying a used, working one would be cheaper than a fix?

 

Here's the thing: there are two sides to this equation - power from the 800 to the 410, and the 410 itself. It's not clear where the problem actually is at this time because (AFAIK) there hasn't been any testing of the 800.

 

You can buy a 410 that's sold as working, but if the problem is in the 800 then you're back to square one, and you've uneccessarily bought a second 410.

 

My gut feeling is that the issue is in the 410, but without doing the testing outlined previously, there's no definitive proof of that. Your call on how to proceed, but if I were in your shoes I would (at the very least) go as far as troubleshooting it per the field service manual as I could before buying another one.

 

We'll be happy to help troubleshoot it if you get stuck at any point, but these are pretty much the options you have right now.

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  • 3 years later...

The Antic Magazine referenced earlier is vol 2 num 11 p.76 

it involves replacing 2 resistors 240K and 330K originally sourced as 10% tolerance with 1% tolerance resistors.

in the repair manual only one resistor is 240K - R114 (1/2 watt)

3 are 330K - R101, 110, 117 (1/4 watt)

article states 1/10 watt is fine due to the circuit being 1/10000 watt

410 board.png

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2 hours ago, Rocinante800 said:

The Antic Magazine referenced earlier is vol 2 num 11 p.76 

it involves replacing 2 resistors 240K and 330K originally sourced as 10% tolerance with 1% tolerance resistors.

in the repair manual only one resistor is 240K - R114 (1/2 watt)

3 are 330K - R101, 110, 117 (1/4 watt)

article states 1/10 watt is fine due to the circuit being 1/10000 watt

410 board.png

I actually replaced all resistors on a 410 with 1% metal film hoping it was noise in signal causing loading errors but it didn’t fix the issue. Dont recall if there is a opamp in the signal path, that was my next suspect.

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2 hours ago, eizner23 said:

Dont recall if there is a opamp in the signal path, that was my next suspect.

The DATA playback signal first passes thru 2 transistors of an LM3086 Array(A101), then all 4 channels of an LM324 OP-AMP(A100)

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On 8/5/2022 at 3:59 PM, BillC said:

The DATA playback signal first passes thru 2 transistors of an LM3086 Array(A101), then all 4 channels of an LM324 OP-AMP(A100)

Thank you for the reminder. I do not feel lower noise opamp would make any difference. My unit will save and load basic programs from tape but not prerecorded games or games recorded onto fresh tape.  Tried playing with tape leader. Can here the sounds but end up with load error.  Had idea of using cassette adapter feeding signal from .wav on laptop to eliminate 410 as fault.

 

Does the Atari 400 process BASIC signal differently than cassette games?

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34 minutes ago, eizner23 said:

Thank you for the reminder. I do not feel lower noise opamp would make any difference. My unit will save and load basic programs from tape but not prerecorded games or games recorded onto fresh tape.  Tried playing with tape leader. Can here the sounds but end up with load error.  Had idea of using cassette adapter feeding signal from .wav on laptop to eliminate 410 as fault.

 

Does the Atari 400 process BASIC signal differently than cassette games?

No it does not. The signal is physically the same. The only difference is the logical file format.

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