Various DOS releases - the ultimate DOS?

[6BQ5]

I know many DOS'es have been released for the 8-bit machines. There's Atari DOS, SpartaDOS, and MyDOS among others.

 

Has one version won out over all others? Is there an "ultimate DOS" that the community has embrace and migrated to?

 

I remember using DOS 2.0 and DOS 2.5 back in the 80s on my 800 machine with a 1050 drive. Now I have a 130XE, a XF551, and a SIO2PC-USB from AtariMax.

 

Thanks!

[Rybags]

Back in the day is somewhat different to this century. The vast majority of people had stock RAM amounts and only an 810, 1050 or maybe XF551.

 

Such a config (Ram at least) lends well to just using plain old Dos 2.x - specifically 2.5 if your drive does better than 88K per side SD.

 

In the modern day IMO SpartaDosX is king insofar as capability but even then it needs to run from a modern day Rom solution to properly shine. And preferably 128K of Ram or better.

 

The peripheral in use matters too. Even an emulated floppy solution like SIO2SD or SIO2PC at low speeds can benefit from the "better" Doses due to support for much bigger ATRs (most 2.x only compatible Doses won't do more than 1,024 sectors).

 

 

Note of course though that SpartaDos is one of the few that have continued to evolve and improve in the last 25 years.

RealDos also worth a mention as one still updated but I've not had a lot to do with it.

[+slx]

I don't think there's "one to rule them all". SpartaDOS looks quite formidable (though I haven't explored a quarter of it yet), but might still be overkill for many who just want to load and store some files. There's extra small LiteDOS, some people prefer command lines like DOS XL or XDOS, others prefer menus.

[1050]

One version?

 

No. Beginners continue to use all the early ones while

sophisticates tend toward SDX. I make do with MyDOS.

It's never going to change much this late in the game.

[toddtmw]

I know many DOS'es have been released for the 8-bit machines. There's Atari DOS, SpartaDOS, and MyDOS among others.

 

Has one version won out over all others? Is there an "ultimate DOS" that the community has embrace and migrated to?

 

I remember using DOS 2.0 and DOS 2.5 back in the 80s on my 800 machine with a 1050 drive. Now I have a 130XE, a XF551, and a SIO2PC-USB from AtariMax.

 

Thanks!

 

Shhhhh!

 

You wanna start a rumble??

[Gunstar]

The most powerful DOS on the Atari is SpartaDOS X, bar none, by a HUGE margian. But as stated, there is no definitive standard. Most at this point have broken into two camps for use with modern media solutions, the main two capable of handling the modern media; either the DOS 2/2.5 compatible MyDOS 4.x or SpartaDOS X 4.x. I don't see this changing ever at this point. Maybe a new DOS 2 compatible DOS might come along to supplant MyDOS, since I don't think it's updated any longer, but it will always be a DOS 2.5 compatible vs. SpartaDOS X.

 

I've been in the SpartaDOS camp since '86, only using MyDOS when I have to be DOS 2 compatible for legacy commercial software. But if I have to use a DOS 2 compatible, it's MyDOS.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Gunstar

[6BQ5]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I randomly tried a few DOS'es like SpartaDOS and MyDOS with my SIO2PC-USB. Wow-wee they sure are a leap above and beyond DOS 2.5!!

 

I don't have a programmable ROM cart and I only have 128k memory in my stock 130XE. Some of those high horsepower DOS'es may be too much for me.

 

I think all I need is something that supports DS-DD floppies (360k) with my XF551 and maybe a RAM disk. Dos 1.0 XE seemed clumsy and awkward to me. DOS 2.5 is the most familiar but doesn't support 360k floppies.

 

Shhhhh!

 

You wanna start a rumble??

 

Why, yes, I do.

[dmsc]

Hi!

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

I randomly tried a few DOS'es like SpartaDOS and MyDOS with my SIO2PC-USB. Wow-wee they sure are a leap above and beyond DOS 2.5!!

 

I don't have a programmable ROM cart and I only have 128k memory in my stock 130XE. Some of those high horsepower DOS'es may be too much for me.

 

I think all I need is something that supports DS-DD floppies (360k) with my XF551 and maybe a RAM disk. Dos 1.0 XE seemed clumsy and awkward to me. DOS 2.5 is the most familiar but doesn't support 360k floppies.

 

 

Why, yes, I do.

Then, try BW-DOS ( https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=BEWE%20DOS%201.30%20Manual#attach), it is like SpartaDOS but smaller, leaving all extended memory for applications.

[DavidMil]

Many DOS's were modified to allow them to work better with certain apps, and to do certain things better than others. For example;

working with limited RAM. It depends on what you want to do with what you have that should suggest a specific DOS to use. Just

try to run Sparta X on a 400 with 16K...

 

David

[+MrFish]

You can clearly see what the standards are in this poll: DOS Used on Real Hardware

[E474]

Hi,

 

I've settled on using MyDos as it supports using up to 64K of sectors (e.g. 16MB ATR files on SIO2PI setups), large ramdisks (512K of Sys-Check 2 ram) and also supports sub-directories. It's also supported by dir2atr, and works well with Hias's high-speed OS which is installed in the Sys-Check 2, and also upgraded (true double density) drives like Happy, US-Doubler, etc.

 

I haven't used SpartaDos X, just SpartaDos 3.2 bitd, though everything that I've heard tells me it's an excellent DOS, I just don't have the cartridge (?) hardware to run it.

[Gunstar]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I randomly tried a few DOS'es like SpartaDOS and MyDOS with my SIO2PC-USB. Wow-wee they sure are a leap above and beyond DOS 2.5!!

 

I don't have a programmable ROM cart and I only have 128k memory in my stock 130XE. Some of those high horsepower DOS'es may be too much for me.

 

I think all I need is something that supports DS-DD floppies (360k) with my XF551 and maybe a RAM disk. Dos 1.0 XE seemed clumsy and awkward to me. DOS 2.5 is the most familiar but doesn't support 360k floppies.

 

 

Why, yes, I do.

There is no reason to let MyDOS overwhelm you if you are used to DOS 2.5. Just use what you know from 2.5 and learn the new stuff in time. And it can format your DSDD 360K disks.

[toddtmw]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Smart DOS. I eventually ended up using that near the end.

 

Is there something wrong with it that I didn't know about BITD?

[6BQ5]

I stayed up late last night ... way too late ... playing around with MyDOS. After getting used to it I felt like it was a natural extension of Atari DOS 2.5. I even managed to create a 16 MB high capacity partition with APE and it worked beautifully with my 130XE. Loved it!

 

I think it was RealDOS that overwhelmed. Can't remember the name. The ATR I tried had delays, loaded something called Wedge, did lots of hardware checks. Took a while for it to boot.

 

Looks like I got a few more suggestions here to explore : LiteDOS, SmartDOS, and BW-DOS,

Edited April 7, 2019 by 6BQ5

[E474]

Hi,

 

This might be a useful thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/287920-ramdisk-driver-for-mydos4534-and-sys-check-2-512k-ram/- the ramdisk in the ATR is persistent after a cold boot, so you can run at address E477 (cold-start), and not lose the contents of your ramdisk (you might need to save the settings for your memory config at some point).

 

One feature of MyDos I forgot to mention is that it supports larger file sizes than DOS 2.5. The manual is at Mathy's website, which is linked to in the above thread.

 

I am sure I have used SmartDos in the past, I can't remember why I didn't give it a go when I was testing DOSs that worked with ramdisks/large files, I think I'll try it out when I'm not out of town.

 

Hope this helps!

[gozar]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Smart DOS. I eventually ended up using that near the end.

 

Is there something wrong with it that I didn't know about BITD?

 

I don't think so, but I used DOS 3 for the longest time. It was what came with my 1050 and I didn't have a modem or local BBSes, so basically, there was no way to change DOSes. After I installed the US Doubler in my drive I moved to SparaDOS, and by that time I had access to DOS 2.5 and MyDOS. Those were needed so I could use TurboBasic XL.

[Gunstar]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Smart DOS. I eventually ended up using that near the end.

 

Is there something wrong with it that I didn't know about BITD?

I've heard it's a great DOS, as well as many others. In fact I've collected most of them off the net and have many, including Smart DOS on real floppy disk, but I just never tried them, Atari is blessed with lots of great DOS's to choose from. But I moved straight from DOS 2.5 to SpartaDOS, and once you go off the deep end with SpartaDOS, there's no going back. I've not bothered to try anything else except MyDOS. I've had no reason too, content with Sparta. MyDOS when I have to becuase I know it can handle large drives, the only reason I choose it when forced to deviate from SpartaDOS.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Gunstar

[+Nezgar]

SmartDOS was mostly based on a Atari DOS 2.0 with a significantly enhanced DUP.SYS primarily driven by the need for good double density support - "smart density" - to automatically switch between densities, and was the first DOS that didn't require you to reboot every time you wanted to switch densities.

 

Good interview with Ron Bieber, one of the authors here: http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-41-ron-bieber-smartdos

 

According to the interview, it was originally planned to be named "Density Smart DOS" but it had so many other features, they stuck with "SmartDOS". It was licensed and included with Aastra and Rana drives. It was offered to Indus as well, but they never heard back.

 

They chose not to support 1050 enhanced density because they thought it was a stupid idea. (Just like everyone else lol)

 

Originally it was provided as a tool to patch Atari DOS, but they later got a license from Atari to distribute it in it's modified form to begin with.

[6BQ5]

 

They chose not to support 1050 enhanced density because they thought it was a stupid idea. (Just like everyone else lol)

 

 

Just curious ... why was enhanced density a bad idea?

Edited April 8, 2019 by 6BQ5

[Rybags]

720 to 1040 sectors wasn't much of an improvement considering with not much extra effort they could and should have done proper double density, ie 720 sectors of 256 bytes each.

 

And given the 10-bit link structure the last 16 sectors went to waste as well.

[tschak909]

I really do think the 1050 was hobbled by a manager who said, "We are _NOT_ spending another $3 on another 128 bytes of SRAM"

 

-Thom

[baktra]

720 to 1040 sectors wasn't much of an improvement considering with not much extra effort they could and should have done proper double density, ie 720 sectors of 256 bytes each.

 

And given the 10-bit link structure the last 16 sectors went to waste as well.

 

That's where DOS 3 stepped in with the new disk layout. But... felt into oblivion.

Keeping the sector size probably turned to be the easisest way to provide compatible upgrade at the time. Art of the possible.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

I am using SuperDos since 1988 or so... One thing I like about superdos is, that you can go to BASIC anytime. (works great when programming in BASIC). It also supports SD,ED and DD diskformats.

 

I plan to learn Spartados X in the future, to be able to work a bit with SIDE2 harddrive on Atari 130XE.

[mchorvat]

SpartaDOS X. on a cartridge. real time clock. subdirectories. large ATR support. 128/256/512byte per sector support. file timestamps. allows to easily configure external RAM (512KB/1MB). VERY low memlo. FILE TIMESTAMPS. batch files. quick boot. HDD support. APT support. command line parameters. high speed SIO routines. the list goes on... did i mention file timestamps?

 

This is the DOS that rules them all.

 

The ONLY drawback for me is that it cannot read 360k (DS/DD or Quad) disks formatted by BiboDos 6.4 - it just reads 707 sectors (ataridos double), and not all 1427. And boy i have tons of these from 90-ies...

Edited April 8, 2019 by mchorvat

[+Nezgar]

Just curious ... why was enhanced density a bad idea?

 

Atari established the single density standard with the 810 in 1979, and double density with the 815 and DOS 2.0D in June 1980. According to the FAQ "The 815 would not have a single density (810-compatible) operation mode (a shortcoming that would inspire Percom to invent the "Percom configuration block" as a standard for density-configurable Atari disk drives")"

 

First with the release of Percoms first true double density capable drives in March 1982, then soon followed by other drive manufacturers also adopting double density and it became 'de facto' standard "second" density with users. An easy upgrade since Atari's own DOS 2.0D already supported it.

 

Atari released the 1050 in June 1983, introducing the Dual/Enhanced density that was 1. incompatible with any other drive at the time of release, and 2. inferior capacity compared to the already established true double density, and lastly 3. no existing software supported it. Even Atari themselves did not start shipping DOS 3.0 to officially support the new density until 1.5 years later in winter 1984! (And not until 2.5 years later - Fall 1985 - for DOS 2.5!)

 

So there was 2.5 years where there was a lot of DOS 2.0 'hacks' to access the additional space, there's articles in ANTIC to such effect. They were a) dangerous to use with original unpatched DOS disks and vice versa, and b) unreadable in drives capable of only single and true double density.

 

Many of the original true double-density capable drives that were released prior to the introduction of the 1050 such as Percom, TRAK, Rana (maybe?) remained incapable of reading 1050 enhanced density disks, further reducing the popularity of the format... (for exchange at least)

 

And yes... the fact that the 1050 is fully capable of reading/writing true double density with as little as only a ROM change (Turbo 1050) or a ROM + 128 additional bytes of RAM (US Doubler) is testament to the silliness of creating a new standard to accommodate the intentional RAM deficiency...