emkay Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 He quotes and says Remind me to never use you as a lawyer, with those deductive reasoning skills based on what *I* said I 'd be locked up forever......Man takes words, make's own new sentence that pleases him.....SUCCESS....But only for him.. And I often wonder , why some realistic words hurt people that much? Does it also hurt, if you read something like 3-2=1 ? Sorry, but, if you only have 3 Pears, you eat one Pear, then you naturally have only 2 Pears left. In a more realistic way you'll lose the others, if you don't eat them quick, they may get rotten early. Eventually, they will reappear on a tree some decades later.... So, after the Pears were rotten before you ate them, why not blaming emkay for that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Have a look at this one: What could it be, that such(this) game never made it to the Atari ? It does a software character mode that allows 40x50 pixels. C64 needs CPU time for that. The Atari could build that by setting the DL. CPU is the same type... so ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Back to topic: The game is made in Turbo Basic. Double Scanline mode made it possible there. So, there ARE possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Oh, my God! The gall I have!! Maybe you use it as a glorified toy, I run my business with it, successfully. And you're the one who needs to grow up if you feel the need to used obscenities, just shows a lack of vocabulary and intelligent articulation to me...if it's just a glorified toy, why get so upset over it? Again, it's not me that needs to grow up, I'm not throwing temper-tantrums like a five-year-old over somebody knocking a kids game or "glorified toy." So, is everything that is considered obsolete by tech standards become a "glorified toy" in your little brain? BITD, we were at a department store (Rikes, which became Lazarus, which became Macy's) and they had a display with a TI-99/4a. There was a salesguy standing next to it playing some space game. My friend and I asked him if they had any REAL computer stuff and he said, like what? We said Atari. He was like those are toys. And I said, This coming from the guy playing a space game on a TI-99/4a. Alsol, I used to have this printed from an Okimate 10 on the wall near my Ataris (again BITD). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Back to topic: The game is made in Turbo Basic. Double Scanline mode made it possible there. So, there ARE possibilities. My little brother use to play this game BITD, no scrolling, it's screen to screen, one enemy per screen, shitty animation, terrible controls...so yeah, plenty of possibilities if you want a terrible game. Impressive for Turbo Basic though, I give it that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 just as I was green with envy 30-something years ago, i'm green with envy now. No need for envy. According to the developers: * the game uses "Variable-Screen-Positioning" which may overcharges 64's abilities. It tends to crash the emulator or real hardware. "Solution": Try another machine. * Music replay can be faster as intended * Fireballs may not fly over the screen as desired * Famicon is about 70% faster, slow-downs are about to be expected in several situations (Source (German): https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Klempner-geht-fremd-Super-Mario-Bros-auf-dem-C64-zocken-4404180.html ) Don't get me wrong: This a really a nice effort and seven years of development shows real dedication, but don't judge a production by only watching an image or some footage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) Have a look at this one: What could it be, that such(this) game never made it to the Atari ? It does a software character mode that allows 40x50 pixels. C64 needs CPU time for that. The Atari could build that by setting the DL. CPU is the same type... so ? There are about a dozen of demos for the Atari that have similar 3D corridor visuals that could be considered "proof of concept," not to mention that Wolfenstein 3D "M4" demo or whatever it was called and Numen demo. I don't recall if I've seen one that's a much larger window like this one, but I'm sure it could be done if more time was spent on it than the average demo. Edited April 22, 2019 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 And I often wonder , why some realistic words hurt people that much? Does it also hurt, if you read something like 3-2=1 ? Sorry, but, if you only have 3 Pears, you eat one Pear, then you naturally have only 2 Pears left. In a more realistic way you'll lose the others, if you don't eat them quick, they may get rotten early. Eventually, they will reappear on a tree some decades later.... So, after the Pears were rotten before you ate them, why not blaming emkay for that ? Excuse the utter bollocks just posted, how do you take what I said about being excited to see all computers / consoles of a retro age performing better than ever to make an assumption that I was talking about one being better at 3D than the other? Sorry, its just a usual deliberate ploy to crap on a thread... Btw, pears are so overrated, well to you they are....You really should spend time on the free thinking threads or the like....They often like to talk utter clap trap on the hope it sounds clever.. Sigh....Pick something else than this predictable strategy of yours...enter thread, disagree, attempt to show us your deep ultra Cosmic multidimensional thinking of yours and then talk crap..Predictable... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) Excuse the utter bollocks just posted, how do you take what I said about being excited to see all computers / consoles of a retro age performing better than ever to make an assumption that I was talking about one being better at 3D than the other? Sorry, its just a usual deliberate ploy to crap on a thread... Btw, pears are so overrated, well to you they are....You really should spend time on the free thinking threads or the like....They often like to talk utter clap trap on the hope it sounds clever.. Sigh....Pick something else than this predictable strategy of yours...enter thread, disagree, attempt to show us your deep ultra Cosmic multidimensional thinking of yours and then talk crap..Predictable... I have no clue what Emkay is on about in his posts 90% of the time. The words are English, the sentences complete, as individual sentences they make sense, but when grouped together the meanings and ideas he is attempting to tell seem like total gibberish to me most of the time. Including this one. I sit there with a scowl on my face re-reading them and trying to make sense of them, but can't. Edited April 22, 2019 by Gunstar 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 no scrolling, it's screen to screen, one enemy per screen, shitty animation, terrible controls... For what it is worth, Nintendo officially released Super Mario Bros to the NEC PC-88 and Sharp X1, two business computers with rather basic gaming capacity. In both these cases, the game plays as flip screen and are far inferior to the NES/Famicom version. I think the reason they released it for the Sharp is due to their hardware cooperation (and that Sharp had the rights to the Famicom trademark before Nintendo coined it), not sure what NEC's hold was on Nintendo. But yes, a game that abuses the hardware to a such point that many computers are not "compatible" to play it can be a sour discovery. I think most of the upper end C64 emulators should be VSP safe, but as Irgendwer noted, far from all real C64's are. If the same would be true about Atari 8-bits, that you made a game that only works on a fraction of the existing machines, most people over here would be dissatisfied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emux Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) For what it is worth, Nintendo officially released Super Mario Bros to the NEC PC-88 and Sharp X1, two business computers with rather basic gaming capacity. In both these cases, the game plays as flip screen and are far inferior to the NES/Famicom version. I think the reason they released it for the Sharp is due to their hardware cooperation (and that Sharp had the rights to the Famicom trademark before Nintendo coined it), not sure what NEC's hold was on Nintendo. But yes, a game that abuses the hardware to a such point that many computers are not "compatible" to play it can be a sour discovery. I think most of the upper end C64 emulators should be VSP safe, but as Irgendwer noted, far from all real C64's are. If the same would be true about Atari 8-bits, that you made a game that only works on a fraction of the existing machines, most people over here would be dissatisfied. I don't think it's true to say that it "only works on a fraction of the exist machines". I've tested over 20 C64's and all of them apart from one was VSP safe, so only one failed the test. Also I'm not seeing much feedback from user's saying that this port is crashing on their machines. Also all of the C64 emulators are VSP safe as well as the C64 Re-Loaded 1&2, Ultimate 64 and TC64 - all VSP safe. It's such an obscure problem that an emulator would have to build it in rather than it happen by default. Edited April 22, 2019 by emux 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Hm, ok. Based on what people in the Commodore community are willing to pay for a machine that is tested and verified as being VSP safe, I thought the failure rate was higher than 1/20 or perhaps it depends on exactly which VIC-II chip and motherboard you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emux Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Hm, ok. Based on what people in the Commodore community are willing to pay for a machine that is tested and verified as being VSP safe, I thought the failure rate was higher than 1/20 or perhaps it depends on exactly which VIC-II chip and motherboard you have. That was just my collection which I was cataloging a few years ago so it's not what you might call a scientific result but my feeling at the time was that the VSP problem was not that widespread. The machine that failed was a later HMOS - C64C type machine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I found it easier to play on VICE with SCPU support....Plays like a dream then....Not tested on my C64 on the bench here as the bench in covered in cables here doe to a sort out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 But yes, a game that abuses the hardware to a such point that many computers are not "compatible" to play it can be a sour discovery. I think most of the upper end C64 emulators should be VSP safe, but as Irgendwer noted, far from all real C64's are. If the same would be true about Atari 8-bits, that you made a game that only works on a fraction of the existing machines, most people over here would be dissatisfied. I wonder why they used that? The C64 has games that show a lot more moving sprites on the screen, using the standard scrolling. And it won't help with missing colors either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 dusted off the c128, in 64 mode it failed. Yet another disappointment, I really should learn by now not to waste my time. The wife shakes her head at me asks why I bother. She nearly dropped dead when I told here she was right... oh well, back in the box it goes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Wouldn’t be fast enough using traditional methods. In a nutshell, VSP allows you do fast scrolling without having to copy data, this frees up the cpu to do other things. Unfortunately microsecond timing is required, so pcb layout and temperature can affect the reliability of the technique. Thankfully my breadbin appears to be immune to it. The reloaded board has a workaround to prevent VSP related crashes. http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/VSP-Fix 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 The C64 HAS this game since decades. It's exactly the same game. Just exchange the content of the graphics, the sprites , and the music, to make Super Mario Bros out of the Great Giana Sister.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari_Falcon Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Or just look at crownland. It's awesome. The Atari 8 bit has very talented coders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 The C64 HAS this game since decades. It's exactly the same game. Just exchange the content of the graphics, the sprites , and the music, to make Super Mario Bros out of the Great Giana Sister.... Yes, I came across a SMB hack out of GS several decades ago, before I discovered the original game. But replacing the sprites doesn't change the physics, the level designs or power ups. It is like putting a bow on the Pac-Man sprite and call it Ms. Pac-Man without expanding the game to run over multiple mazes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Giana Sisters is one of the most hacked games out there on the Commie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) An interesting side note is that Rainbow Arts (who published Giana Sisters) briefly released a shoot 'em up called Katakis (8.6 / 10 on Lemon64), which was taken out of distribution by Activision because it strongly resembled R-Type for which they had the conversion rights. However Activision didn't get anywhere in porting R-Type and hired the Katakis programming team to do it for them in 6 weeks, which resulted in a so-so port (though rated 7.8 on Lemon64). Rainbow Arts later reworked the original game into Denaris (8.2). The reason for bringing this up is that of course Super Mario Bros was the "killer app" for selling the NES and a strong reason why Nintendo wouldn't want it ported to more formats than strictly required. If other conditions had applied and they had wanted SMB on competitor's systems, they may as well have hired the GS team to rework it into a better SMB port. Of course there's the reworked/sequel Hard 'n Heavy by reLINE but it is nowhere as famous as Giana Sisters were. Edited April 23, 2019 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/VSP-Fix Thanks for the link. I didn't know that f.e. "Mayhem in Monsterland" also makes use of VSP. It's quite interesting that these games work "on the edge" or "out of" the C64's spec. Edited April 23, 2019 by Irgendwer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I don't get the excitement surrounding SMB. Despite being a blatant ripoff, IMO Great Gianna Sisters is a better game. To the point that Nintendo themselves actually released it for the DS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Many people - even Commodorians - think the opposite but each to their own. However in other news Nintendo also has found out about this fan made game and have now issued global DMCA takedowns to various sites hosting it. Yes, it is IP infringement of the most obvious kind but kind of cute that Nintendo reacts so strongly about a free game for a system which has been commercially dead for 25 years. At least it tells something to anyone trying to make a pixel perfect port of SMB or any other Nintendo IP to the Atari 8-bits that once you have published, you can expect a C&D letter within 2-3 days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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