why I hate commodore 64

[shoestring]

Doesn't surprise me. There are too many places to get it and its already on archive.org.

[Gunstar]

Nintendo sucks. I'm referring to the company leadership, not the products.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Gunstar

[shoestring]

They’ve been unfairly targetting Modern Vintage Gamer’s channel and taking down his Nintendo switch homebrew videos. These are manual flags by the way, so someone at Nintendo obviously doesn’t like what he is doing.

[empsolo]

I don't get the excitement surrounding SMB.

 

Despite being a blatant ripoff, IMO Great Gianna Sisters is a better game. To the point that Nintendo themselves actually released it for the DS.

Not really? Gianna Sisters suffers from the fact that it is an early 80’s European platform game. It’s not as well designed in terms of level design and controls next to SMB and other games that would be released by Japanese developers during this period.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ilmenit]

Does anyone knows how many sprites and of what sizesSMB requires on screen at the same time?

[Irgendwer]

Does anyone knows how many sprites and of what sizesSMB requires on screen at the same time?

 

Not really, but the turning flames alone would be a challenge on the A8 (in some situation there are 4 of them visible at the same time):

[R0ger]

I don't understand what they were thinking. Nintendo is known for being very strict about copyrights.

[_The Doctor__]

but I love the flames in donkey kong

[emkay]

24 of those fireballs, at least 20 fps. Plus Super Mario and some other objects, flames a.s.o.

 

Antic D plus PM multiplexing/flicker could solve this. Possibly that D and E interleaved mode.

Using the hardware scrolling would make Antic D needed for sure.

[+CharlieChaplin]

However in other news Nintendo also has found out about this fan made game and have now issued global DMCA takedowns to various sites hosting it. Yes, it is IP infringement of the most obvious kind but kind of cute that Nintendo reacts so strongly about a free game for a system which has been commercially dead for 25 years. At least it tells something to anyone trying to make a pixel perfect port of SMB or any other Nintendo IP to the Atari 8-bits that once you have published, you can expect a C&D letter within 2-3 days.

 

So, some months later we can answer the question of another topic here:

 

"What about the Commodore community?"

 

- It had been sued, taken to prison, tortured and killed by Nintendo.

 

Hey, Spectrum community, what about an SMB conversion for your systems ? (evil Atari grin)

[carlsson]

Hm, better hope no evil C64 coders will infiltrate the Atari 8-bit community and make great games based on Nintendo's intellectual properties.

[_The Doctor__]

Hm, better hope no evil C64 coders will infiltrate the Atari 8-bit community and make great games based on Nintendo's intellectual properties.

oh, I'd prefer evil c64 coders would infiltrate making only great Atari 8 bit games, especially if they are super terrific great ones, once the genie is out of the bottle they can't put it back in, and the community will be safely insulated in more ways than one at that point.

Edited April 23, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[Mclaneinc]

super terrific great ones?

 

​Can a game of this magnitude actually exist in the real world... Would be written by Emk*y no less!!

Edited April 23, 2019 by Mclaneinc

[+CharlieChaplin]

The "A8 community" already created Dr. Mario - but Nintendo did not notice it seems...

 

"Bros." and "Monster Hunt" were bad enough, so that no-one takes them as serious SMB clones (not even Nintendo).

[Lord Thag]

No surprise nintendo shut them down, they're legendary for that crap.

I've seen quite a few people get away with making games like this over the years, but they have to be pretty under the radar. If a game hits the mainline game sites, it's game over.

[FifthPlayer]

Not a copyright lawyer, but I have read that a company like Nintendo is pretty much obligated to police their IP and issue take-down notices for copycat games. If they fail to do so, they run the risk of losing their copyright. From their point of view, they're willing to accept a few pissed off enthusiasts to maintain ownership of their IP.

[carlsson]

Yes, that is true. As long as they're aware of IP infringement, they need to act (but how long can they pretend to not be aware about it?). Possibly they could issue a license to use the IP but it might be tricky business.

 

Same goes for most intellectual properties and probably is one of the reasons why the owners of the Smurfs trademark in particular are known for reacting so fast and powerful to any unlicensed use of their characters.

[Marius]

Deleted post

Edited April 24, 2019 by Marius

[ilmenit]

Seems that C64 SMB is using flickering to bypass limits of too many objects, which especially in case of flames is acceptable: https://youtu.be/6jIrR9Iqq4Q?t=1518

[emkay]

Seems that C64 SMB is using flickering to bypass limits of too many objects, which especially in case of flames is acceptable: https://youtu.be/6jIrR9Iqq4Q?t=1518

The slowdowns are interesting. As on the C64 up to 63 bytes can be moved by just setting x,y,z

Shortest LDA STA ROW is 5 cycles

It costs 5 cycles to move a sprite horizontal, vertical...

It costs 6 cycles to give the sprite a new face, to read from a 16 bit address.

In graphics in the Atari it means to use 16 bit addresses so 6 cycles used.

6 cycles multiplied with 63 bytes...

 

387 cycles x 8 Sprites = 3024 cycles on the Atari

5 cycles x 8 Sprites = 40 cycles on the C64

 

There is still no bit calculation, no engine for moving every single Sprite. When on the C64 the game is working with no glitches, and on the Atari you see the byte boundaries.

 

But something "lucky" is happening on the Atari. The internal commands of the CPU don't stall, if memory access is blocked. So depending on the command, the DMA cycle stealing is less important.

 

 

Doing that game in Character mode is only usefull , if character movement has priority.

Edited April 24, 2019 by emkay

[Schlortt]

Seems that C64 SMB is using flickering to bypass limits of too many objects, which especially in case of flames is acceptable: https://youtu.be/6jIrR9Iqq4Q?t=1518

Even the original NES version had some flickering. One example is if you don't use the warp in World 1-1. Toward the end of the level, if Mario is on the ground, you have Mario and 4 Goombas on the same horizontal line. Mario and the 1st and 3rd Goombas are solid. The 2nd Goomba flickers slightly while the fourth Goomba is very transparent due to flickering.

 

Watch here: https://youtu.be/1qcTwuKozs8?t=77

 

Obviously, 5 objects that are each composed of two players on the same horizontal line is a nightmare for PM graphics if you are striving for a flicker free game.

 

If someone is considering using character graphics, one thing in the original that bodes well for the A8 is that Goombas share the same colors as the background Black, white? and (orange above ground and blue when underground) so you would have enough colors for the Goombas. Also, when you are underground, I don't think you have anything that you need to mask since the background underground is black. Above ground, there are a lot of shrubs, etc that would create a lot of overhead and tons more work.

[mika]

Even the original NES version had some flickering. One example is if you don't use the warp in World 1-1. Toward the end of the level, if Mario is on the ground, you have Mario and 4 Goombas on the same horizontal line. Mario and the 1st and 3rd Goombas are solid. The 2nd Goomba flickers slightly while the fourth Goomba is very transparent due to flickering.

 

Watch here: https://youtu.be/1qcTwuKozs8?t=77

 

Obviously, 5 objects that are each composed of two players on the same horizontal line is a nightmare for PM graphics if you are striving for a flicker free game.

 

If someone is considering using character graphics, one thing in the original that bodes well for the A8 is that Goombas share the same colors as the background Black, white? and (orange above ground and blue when underground) so you would have enough colors for the Goombas. Also, when you are underground, I don't think you have anything that you need to mask since the background underground is black. Above ground, there are a lot of shrubs, etc that would create a lot of overhead and tons more work.

 

yes, I can confirm that there is quite a lot of flicker in NES, as I've played it yesterday. It also limits number of screen enemies (it may be max.4 at a time, or something like that) it's actually quite a handy "feature", cause you can utilise this to your advantage in later levels when you are chased by Bullet Bills - just don't lose them while they are following you, and tougher enemies will not appear in front of you.

[R0ger]

Well anyway, this port showed beyond doubt, that porting Nintento games is nonsense. I suggest make something original, than you can tune it to Atari hardware from the start.

[emkay]

Well anyway, this port showed beyond doubt, that porting Nintento games is nonsense. I suggest make something original, than you can tune it to Atari hardware from the start.

So we may eventually get a Wolf 3D clone for the Atari?

This would suit way better than any of those "scrolling with sprites" games.

Because there is no need for high resolution. Reminder: Even the PC version runs at approximately 160*100 for the 3D details.

 

But, hey : If games have so suite well to the hardware of the Atari, why not doing the games the way, the Atari could do them ?

Huge memory and no use of horizontal hardware scrolling could help. Shifting the bytes would need 4 different buffers with 4 different color clock settings.

 

 

And, well, Antic D, plus PMg added details, won't look that bad.

Approximately 20 fps isn't a high destination anyways.

 

The real problem is to have the game "fluffy" in controls and animations.

[Gunstar]

 

The real problem is to have the game "fluffy" in controls and animations.

What does the word "fluffy" mean to you? This is what I mean about sometimes you make absolutely no sense. Cotton balls are fluffy, kittens are fluffy, pillows are fluffy...