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why I hate commodore 64

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This is great, it's what we should see. Optimists will create success, Pessimists will cause nothing good to happen (as usual) [emkay].

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This is great, it's what we should see. Optimists will create success, Pessimists will cause nothing good to happen (as usual) [emkay].

This has nothing to do with something pessimistic . It is more pessimistic to drop the real Atari hardware, to use faster CPU boards , and then to tell how good the machine is. Shifting the position doesn't mean to stand on a point.

 

According to the meaning of the thread, "I hate the C64" , because people want to do everything on it. Even if the result might look odd, weak or great. Keeping the core as is, but allow to use external hardware that makes development easier. But they just do it, to have it on their machine.

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but I also now understood from emkay's post, that this kind of port would not be viable for 8bit Atari. I didn't fully realised this real sprite difference, so thanks for explaing this.

If you check the "Demos" in post #25 , all of them put the machine to extremes, without having the game running.

The "Probe" demo is a possible solution. The flickering "sprites" help solving the "sprite limit" problem, but there is not much CPU left, so the playfield is reduced to 32 , which means 40 bytes per scanline.

If flicker is no problem, there is "hope", in the case of good visuals for the Atari conversion, if there will ever be any...

 

Look at Crownland:

 

 

The game looks good and plays nice. It even has been pushing the limits, on the "Background" side.

 

but , the CPU time seems that problematic, the coder also switched to 32 bytes width, while the demo looked really fantastic:

 

 

But particular this type of games take everything (CPU Hardware and Brain ;) ) , while those scenes cost almost nothing on the C64, for the Sprites. The background is a different thing. this costs a lot more CPU than on the Atari to do the scrolling.

Crownland is optimized for the Atari's hardware, SMB need the "special" view, if you understand.

It is not impossible, to do the game on the Atari, but it costs a lot more time to develop.

And that's why some games ended up as "Rampage" or "Green Beret" . It shows the "similar" amount of work on both machines.

Edited by emkay

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Some tiles and sprites look to be Nintendo sized and others look C64 wide pixel-ish. I guess what I'm trying to say is some elements look like they're in a different resolution. Why is that?

 

Not saying fake as I already ate my shoe with Super Mario World 64 (Sega Genesis).

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Badly named thread title as noted but the honest point here is that things like that on the c64 CAN be done on the Atari, they just have not been done yet. We all see stunning things turning up on the Atari that many would have said "that cannot be done on this machine" but eat humble pie when they see the amazing uses of the Atari. Yes the C64 has later hardware and the sprite situation helps it here but NEVER put down the genius of our devs, they pull out every trick in the book and blow our minds.

 

Me, I love to see ALL machines being pushed, there's nothing more exciting than seeing a 20, 30 - 40yr old machine playing a game that was classed as NOT POSSIBLE...

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Me, I love to see ALL machines being pushed, there's nothing more exciting than seeing a 20, 30 - 40yr old machine playing a game that was classed as NOT POSSIBLE...

Let's have some summary:

 

The Atari is the better machine for any 3D than the C64

 

C64

 

Endless 3D games ... check

Doom ... check

 

Atari

 

...

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Let's have some summary:

 

The Atari is the better machine for any 3D than the C64

 

C64

 

Endless 3D games ... check

Doom ... check

 

Atari

 

...

 

Please don't attempt to derail this thread like so many others.

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Let's have some summary:

 

The Atari is the better machine for any 3D than the C64

 

C64

 

Endless 3D games ... check

Doom ... check

 

Atari

 

...

I guess it means what you mean by "3D"...vectors, polygons, raycasters or just general FPV games...because on MY Atari I don't see 3D as "..."

 

Atari

 

Ball Blazer

Rescue On Fractalus

Koronis Rift

The Eidolon

Tomahawk

F-15 Strike Eagle

Mercenary

Wilmunder Star Raiders 2

Battlezone

Dimension X

Encounter

Blaster

MidiMaze

Stuntcar Racer

Total Eclipse

On

and

On

and

On...

 

yes, I know the C64 has a lot of these too, not the point. Every 3D game ported to Atari from C64 is better...Stuntcar Racer, Total Eclipse...

 

The REAL point is, when C64 can do a Space Harrier as good as the Atari's version, I'll take notice. No, not considering it a "3D" game...just saying...

I don't give a damn about C64's extra sprites, there is so much more the Atari can do so much better out of the realm of tiny sprites...still not a C64 hater though, I owned one and I will again.

 

I gotta go see just how bad DOOM on the C64 sucks now...but if the C64 CAN do it, I'm positive the Atari can do it better!

Edited by Gunstar
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Uhh..C64 Doom on 20Mhz Super CPU and 16MB address space? No problem, I'm sure a VBXE/Rapidus combo can STILL blow it away since we don't have to stay "stock." :roll: And yes, the C64 Super CPU DOOM looks like TOTAL crap and appears to play the same...I'm sure VBXE/Rapidus could easily put it to shame...hell, just Rapidus&GTIA&ANTIC could do better...

Edited by Gunstar
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Some tiles and sprites look to be Nintendo sized and others look C64 wide pixel-ish. I guess what I'm trying to say is some elements look like they're in a different resolution. Why is that?

 

Not saying fake as I already ate my shoe with Super Mario World 64 (Sega Genesis).

 

The C64 VIC chip has a text mode where you can independently select hi-res or low-res for each character on screen. See section 3.7.3.2. "Multicolor text mode (ECM/BMM/MCM=0/0/1)" in VIC-Article.txt. You can see this being used in myriad C64 games and demos, e.g. the Turrican series.

 

The hi-res characters all have to use the same background color but can select one of 8 colors for the foreground.

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Some tiles and sprites look to be Nintendo sized and others look C64 wide pixel-ish. I guess what I'm trying to say is some elements look like they're in a different resolution. Why is that?

 

Not saying fake as I already ate my shoe with Super Mario World 64 (Sega Genesis).

 

Oh, and each sprite can independently be either be hi-res or lo-res. Again, the hi-res sprites are single-color and transparent, and the lo-res sprites all share two colors and have one independent color. See section 3.8 of VIC-Article.txt.

 

You can overlay hi-res sprites to gain more colors. That appears to be the case for the Mario sprite, for example. And you can reposition already drawn sprites mid-screen to gain more than the eight natural sprites supported by the VIC.

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Crownland is optimized for the Atari's hardware, SMB need the "special" view, if you understand.

 

No, I definitely don't understand what you mean by "special" view, please explain, I see no difference in the "view" of Crownland than SMB...both 2D side-scrollers, other than less sprites and flickering due to multiplexing or whatever in Crownland, they look very similar to me...

 

Actually I could care less if SMB is ever ported to the Atari, whether it could do it well or not. I lost interest in the Mario franchise (except for Mario Kart) when it left the Atari platform, they always felt to me to be games for little kids, as does so much of Nintendo games. I'd much rather have platformers like Metroid if we are going have Nintendo-like games...what we need is more platformers like Draconus, but scrolling, like the Shadow of the Beast "demo." If we are going to look at porting games from 8-bit consoles, I think the time would be much better spent porting Sega Master System games over...

Edited by Gunstar
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Let's see a VIC chip do a DLI. Let's see your slow CPU bang the hardware as fast as we can to create special effects. You will fail.

 

Edit: Referring to stock Commie hardware. BTW, The Rapidus adds an entirely new dimension to our Victory.

 

Commies are done.

 

Edit: also grammar.

Edited by Kyle22
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Let's see a VIC chip do a DLI. Let's see your slow CPU bang the hardware as fast as we can to create special effects. You will fail.

 

Edit: Referring to stock Commie hardware. The Rapidus adds an entire new dimension to our victory.

 

Commies are done.

Or all the software mixed modes we get from mixing Atari's 15 graphic modes and also all the text modes, and all the on screen colors they provide from a 256 color palette...8 multi-color hardware sprites don't begin to make up for the small C64 color palette and 4 graphic and text modes...

Edited by Gunstar
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No, I definitely don't understand what you mean by "special" view, please explain, I see no difference in the "view" of Crownland than SMB...both 2D side-scrollers, other than less sprites and flickering due to multiplexing or whatever in Crownland, they look very similar to me...

 

Actually I could care less if SMB is ever ported to the Atari, whether it could do it well or not. I lost interest in the Mario franchise (except for Mario Kart) when it left the Atari platform, they always felt to me to be games for little kids, as does so much of Nintendo games. I'd much rather have platformers like Metroid if we are going have Nintendo-like games...what we need is more platformers like Draconus, but scrolling, like the Shadow of the Beast "demo." If we are going to look at porting games from 8-bit consoles, I think the time would be much better spent porting Sega Master System games over...

You are commenting on a forum that’s dedicated to a medium that’s basically a fucking glorified toy, and you have the utter gall to be looking down on something that’s for kids? Grow up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Not to get Kyle too riled up, I wonder if it would be possible to have a VIC and an Antic/GTIA coexisting?

 

Because there are video modes in the VIC that would be nice to have in conjunction with what we already do. Of course I'm just talking off the top of my head, and don't know if that would even be possible.

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Not to get Kyle too riled up, I wonder if it would be possible to have a VIC and an Antic/GTIA coexisting?

 

Because there are video modes in the VIC that would be nice to have in conjunction with what we already do. Of course I'm just talking off the top of my head, and don't know if that would even be possible.

It might have been cool, but I don't see much point in a hardware upgrade like that when we have the vastly superior VBXE now...

Edited by Gunstar
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You are commenting on a forum that’s dedicated to a medium that’s basically a fucking glorified toy, and you have the utter gall to be looking down on something that’s for kids? Grow up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, my God! The gall I have!! :rolling: Maybe you use it as a glorified toy, I run my business with it, successfully. :roll: And you're the one who needs to grow up if you feel the need to used obscenities, just shows a lack of vocabulary and intelligent articulation to me...if it's just a glorified toy, why get so upset over it? Again, it's not me that needs to grow up, I'm not throwing temper-tantrums like a five-year-old over somebody knocking a kids game or "glorified toy." So, is everything that is considered obsolete by tech standards become a "glorified toy" in your little brain?

Edited by Gunstar
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Not to get Kyle too riled up, I wonder if it would be possible to have a VIC and an Antic/GTIA coexisting?

 

Because there are video modes in the VIC that would be nice to have in conjunction with what we already do. Of course I'm just talking off the top of my head, and don't know if that would even be possible.

 

I agree with Gunstar. We can do better.

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Please don't attempt to derail this thread like so many others.

4 (possibly more) users of the forums seem to have real perceptual disorders.

The thread has been derailed more than 1 other post(s) before, like many others....

Edited by emkay

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I said : Me, I love to see ALL machines being pushed, there's nothing more exciting than seeing a 20, 30 - 40yr old machine playing a game that was classed as NOT POSSIBLE...

 

 

He quotes and says

 

Let's have some summary:

 

The Atari is the better machine for any 3D than the C64

 

C64

 

Endless 3D games ... check

Doom ... check

 

Atari

 

...

 

Remind me to never use you as a lawyer, with those deductive reasoning skills based on what *I* said I 'd be locked up forever......Man takes words, make's own new sentence that pleases him.....SUCCESS....But only for him..

Edited by Mclaneinc
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