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Atari : A Visual History Book is now LIVE on Kickstarter


Greyfox

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As a whole, a picture forms when a person reads across the threads and starts becoming more additive as it builds. They bleed together in the mind. How that lack of compartmentalization and the degree one can or can't compartmentalize such is innate to each person. However, with little exception, if you talk a different opinion or thought from those whom seem to enjoy endless verbal splitting of hairs and seem to be english majors skilled at parsing in a way that is always advantageous to their position. You do get the sense that the goal posts are always moving. You feel as though your words don't mean what you say after the newly parsed response has it's spin laden understanding of it posted. It sounds so good people post likes on it. Someone may take those likes as people for or against them as well.

I assume that this is a reference to my earlier post (#286 in this thread), in which I attempted to explain why the comments that JoSch claimed to be "bullying" did not meet that definition as I understand it. All I'll say about that is that "bullying" is a specific term which has a specific definition; if it is stretched to include "any negative input that is perhaps expressed more rudely than necessary," then the term would lose all meaning. If I were to allow the perception that "AtariAge tolerates bullying" to take hold, I wouldn't be doing my job as a moderator, so that is why I felt the need to address it when I did. I don't see how "moving the goalposts" (which is a term that JoSch also used) is even relevant here; it's not "moving the goalposts" to clarify what "bullying" means when asking someone who is leveling that charge to produce supporting examples.

 

As for the issue of the comments in this thread prompting certain people to quit the forums ... to be honest, my first reaction is to ask "what is wrong with these people?" There are plenty of topics here to participate in. If you see something that bothers you, just ignore it and move on to the next thread. If you are tired of seeing a particular member's posts, block them. If you get tired of the forums in general, take a break for a while. There is no need for anyone to allow anything that has been said here to ruin their enjoyment of the hobby, certainly not to the point of damaging friendships or abandoning projects.

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the generalized comment was made and is indicative of the trend and mentions the bleeding across threads. It is a heads up.

 

There is nothing 'wrong' with people who don't get a good vibe or don't wish to see, be hit with, or have conflict in their lives.

 

Membership participation is down, I'd like more folks from the Lehigh Valley and surrounding Area to make a home here.

 

It's not going well, I've cited some of the reasons and perceptions. I don't wish to go down the road of the current bullying or whatever thing is.

 

If using similar cliche's means I'm siding with someone, I'm not.

 

We really don't need stuff always becoming a turn off or downer is all.

Edited by _The Doctor__
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There is nothing 'wrong' with people who don't get a good vibe or don't wish to see, be hit with, or have conflict in their lives.

We really don't need stuff always becoming a turn off or downer is all.

I agree. That's why everyone should remember to use the tools that they already have at their disposal to create the kind of experience that they want here on the forums, whether that means blocking people that they find to be unpleasant, avoiding topics that they know they tend to get emotional about, or whatever. Those tools also include the little "Report" button that you'll find at the bottom of each and every post; if you see something that you think is out of line, use that button to report it to the moderating team along with a brief explanation of why you think so, and we'll look into it. That's why it's there.

 

Another general rule that would be helpful to remember is to assume benevolent intentions unless there are clear grounds to believe otherwise. When people communicate in writing, especially if they don't do a lot of writing every day, it's easy for their remarks to come across as excessively blunt or terse, even if that was not their intention, or to use words that carry connotations that they may not even be aware of. The fact that there are many people here whose native language is not English makes this an even more likely occurrence. Reading over the grievances that have been airing so far, I get the impression that what is most upsetting to some people is not so much the substance of what was said, but how it was said, or what someone was understood to really be saying, or what someone was really trying to convey when they "liked" somebody else's post, etc. These perceptions and implications may be entirely imaginary, so before you blow your top, ask for clarification, either in a public post or with a private message (which, again, is a tool that is there to be used).

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We really don't need stuff always becoming a turn off or downer is all.

 

I agree, but it should not be a downer for people just helping out that don't meet the dev criteria..

 

I don't see 100% eye with FJC, we have had our mini moments but when it comes to his work I have nothing but praise for him and have recommended him numerous times and marvel at his coding.....So if I argue a point its usually for a good reason..Should I be made to feel unwelcome for that...No. not in my books..

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well, Mclaneinc, i just popped in to read the whole thread as a whole story...

...and somehow i thought... could "JoSch" and "emkay" possibly be the same person? :-D

 

 

Possibly, they share a similar arguing skill :)

 

Still, he got his book that he wanted so much so I'm pleased for him....He fought a little too hard but if you believe in something I guess you will..

 

Paul..

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I'm curious to see how the book turns out now that it's funded.

This topic has produced plenty of remarks and suggestions for improvement. Now it is up to the author to take these and make it a better book for the backers.

 

In the mean time, following Fred_M's tip I bought The Atari Book, which is indeed a great magazine book. The second edition is available from https://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/gaming/the-atari-book-second-edition/ .

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Wow - been a long time lurker/reader of Atariage forums and have gleaned a ton of great info over the years - thanks for that to all you regulars :)

 

I happened to read about this thread from a post on Facebook late yesterday where someone had complaints about constantly seeing the book being hawked everywhere and that they couldn't wait for he campaign to be over so they didn't have to see it any longer. I thought that was a bit rude, but they pointed here for people to understand why. I had already backed the book without too much thought, I had even tweeted and retweeted a few times links to the campaign for the book in the final few days to see if I could help get the funding pushed across the line. So I came and read the whole shebang...

I am really glad I read all the way. As a result, I pulled my backing last night. I don't want to beat a dead horse - but as a contributing author and technical editor on 6 traditionally published software development books over the years through publishers like Peachpit, Wiley, New Riders, and others, many things I read here last night, just didn't sit well with me, so I pulled out.

 

FWIW, I do hope since it was actually funded that a lot of the concerns that were shared and surfaced up will be addressed and that it turns out well in the end for everyone.

 

Lots of great lessons here to be learned with an open mind and I would say definitely keep this thread open for any who did back the project to report back and let us know how it turns out.

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Wow - been a long time lurker/reader of Atariage forums and have gleaned a ton of great info over the years - thanks for that to all you regulars :)

 

I happened to read about this thread from a post on Facebook late yesterday where someone had complaints about constantly seeing the book being hawked everywhere and that they couldn't wait for he campaign to be over so they didn't have to see it any longer. I thought that was a bit rude, but they pointed here for people to understand why. I had already backed the book without too much thought, I had even tweeted and retweeted a few times links to the campaign for the book in the final few days to see if I could help get the funding pushed across the line. So I came and read the whole shebang...

 

I am really glad I read all the way. As a result, I pulled my backing last night. I don't want to beat a dead horse - but as a contributing author and technical editor on 6 traditionally published software development books over the years through publishers like Peachpit, Wiley, New Riders, and others, many things I read here last night, just didn't sit well with me, so I pulled out.

 

FWIW, I do hope since it was actually funded that a lot of the concerns that were shared and surfaced up will be addressed and that it turns out well in the end for everyone.

 

Lots of great lessons here to be learned with an open mind and I would say definitely keep this thread open for any who did back the project to report back and let us know how it turns out.

Welcome, and thank you! I don't have any intention of closing this thread; as far as I'm concerned, the Kickstarter isn't truly "over" until and unless the backers have a book that they can be happy with.

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And SERIOUSLY, I really REALLY hope that is what they get..No sarcasm, no jokes...That has been most of the point of the thread..It may not have always looked that way depending on your viewpoint but that is the way it is..Why do I care, well if it is handled right and is a great book then I'd hope for a 2nd print run so I can buy one as can anyone who had reservations. That makes it a win win..Darren can poke his nose at us and I'll smile and agree...The book being good is all we care about..

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Wow, what a thread :-o I backed the book although I found it rather expensive, but then there aren't that many Atari books around and "Atari Gamer" had been quite decent (except for one article that would have needed some more editorial oversight. Not up to the quality of Excel Magazine, but good enough for me.

 

I wouldn't say I don't care about Darren violating the copyright of a 30-year old book's cover design but let's not be overly strict with this. If the owners of the copyright care, they can sue him. I won't.

 

I will not judge the book by its cover but wait for it to arrive and then I'll pass my verdict.

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Some may think, why didn't those of us that commented just wait for the book and see if its good or not but with the cost and the content issues, bad spelling and Atari related mistakes let alone c&p wiki stuff some felt that it might be too late to wait for people to pay such an amount to get a possible dud. Darren has published before so the KS should have been a show stopper in the right way.

 

On my part the treatment of possible contributors was very slack and rude and I know Darren has apologised so this is just a retro note.

 

With all that it seemed someone needed to say something, if it was taken on my part as rude then I apologise BUT there was just as rude (if you like) coming back at me so no one is above reproach here..

 

So as Six rightly says, wait for the book, give your verdict and I'm sure all that commented against the KS for good reason hope that you will be giving it a HUGE thumbs up...If not then vent at Darren and NOT me please...I tried to help..

 

Oh, as for the cover issue, maybe it got blown up a little too large BUT its was on top of all the already found other stuff which sort of an icing on the cake, yes it did get overly mentioned but it was a bad choice on an already set of bad choices by Darren.

Edited by Mclaneinc
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@Six:As one of the team behind Atari Gamer, that needed a damn sight more than further editorial work on 1 article

 

We should of done a lot more fact checking for starters, even though 1 claim we incorrectly stated, is still presented as fact on it's Atarimania section to this day, but glad you liked the magazine despite our failures.

 

Your the reason i reluctantly return here, it's nice to engage with those who purchased something i helped out with.

 

Whilst i am on here, it's worth pointing out that despite best intentions and resources, mistakes do crop in on an awful lot of books and magazines and those that i have purchased over the years.

 

 

The Atari Inc Volume 1 book would of benifitted greatly from a decent editor and proof reader and i believe changes were being made for Volume II ? (which itself seems stuck in limbo).

 

If anyone has spent over £15 as i just have for The Nostalgia Nerd's Retro Tech: Computer, Consoles And Games book, they will of been just as surprised as i was to find the section on the NEC TURBODRAFIX-16 Console.

 

That got through the proof reader as did the claims of the 7800 release, which does not take into account the limited test market release of the system in America.

 

2 minor slip ups, but they got through.

 

As a long term subscriber to RetroGamer magazine, my mind returns to the front covers of issue 44 and The Making Of Rescue On Fractulas with the text proclaiming it as...

 

 

"The Star Wars pitch that launched an Atari 2600 Classic"

 

 

Issue 111...cover annoucing a feature inside on IMAGITECH DESIGN. .an extra H appearing from nowhere.

 

 

But again i implore Greyfox to delay the book and get a fresh team of professional proof readers and fact checkers onboard before the book goes any further.

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Didn't say that in my first post, but poor spelling is inexcusable for anything published in the age of instant, inline spellchecking. Bad grammar is a bit more tricky (though software helps on that, too). Proofreaders need not be professional and paid for, a dozen eyes will see more than those who wrote it. I have not written a book but a couple 30-to-100-page docs and even if you read through them a dozen times and with the spell checker engaged, you always find something wrong every time you read it. I think it's just our brain getting tired of repetition and skipping parts it thinks we know already...

 

I do agree on the Atari history book, found a couple of errors there, too.

 

Maybe the rest of Atari Gamer wasn't error free, but I just looked at the mail I wrote to Darren after reading it and hope it wasn't just politeness that let me write that one article would have needed more polishing. The remainder obviously didn't jar me enough to warrant mention in my mail.

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I also purchased the Atari History book via the thread that was made in here, I enjoyed it, there were some bits I wasn't blown away by BUT I did enjoy it which is the most important part..

 

Slightly related, just saw the Retro Gamer Hardware new book, yet again the Atari 8 bit computer gets no mention (as usual) yet the PC Engine which I don't think had an official release here gets one...

 

So the book is UK based but yet the 8 bit computer never had the same following as some of the machines according to the non show...Shocking...

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I also purchased the Atari History book via the thread that was made in here, I enjoyed it, there were some bits I wasn't blown away by BUT I did enjoy it which is the most important part..

 

Slightly related, just saw the Retro Gamer Hardware new book, yet again the Atari 8 bit computer gets no mention (as usual) yet the PC Engine which I don't think had an official release here gets one...

 

So the book is UK based but yet the 8 bit computer never had the same following as some of the machines according to the non show...Shocking...

 

Retrogamer Magazine is NOT Atari friendly. They pay lip service, and have over the years changed their tune slightly fron "The Amiga version was just a toss ST port" to "There is little separating the ST and Amiga ports". They sometimes cover Atari, but not in every issue. Their "books" are a kind of a joke (although I own most of them).

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Wow, what a thread :-o I backed the book although I found it rather expensive, but then there aren't that many Atari books around and "Atari Gamer" had been quite decent (except for one article that would have needed some more editorial oversight. Not up to the quality of Excel Magazine, but good enough for me.

 

I wouldn't say I don't care about Darren violating the copyright of a 30-year old book's cover design but let's not be overly strict with this. If the owners of the copyright care, they can sue him. I won't.

 

I will not judge the book by its cover but wait for it to arrive and then I'll pass my verdict.

 

I almost backed the book in spite of the problems, until I realized with shipping it would have been $50. :-o

 

There are several Atari books that have been published over the years that I have collected, at least one that I'm thinking of I haven't seen mentioned here. I'll have to find it at home and see what it was called. Also, the Best catalog was a great book in itself. :-D

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Another general rule that would be helpful to remember is to assume benevolent intentions unless there are clear grounds to believe otherwise. When people communicate in writing, especially if they don't do a lot of writing every day, it's easy for their remarks to come across as excessively blunt or terse, even if that was not their intention, or to use words that carry connotations that they may not even be aware of. The fact that there are many people here whose native language is not English makes this an even more likely occurrence. Reading over the grievances that have been airing so far, I get the impression that what is most upsetting to some people is not so much the substance of what was said, but how it was said, or what someone was understood to really be saying, or what someone was really trying to convey when they "liked" somebody else's post, etc. These perceptions and implications may be entirely imaginary, so before you blow your top, ask for clarification, either in a public post or with a private message (which, again, is a tool that is there to be used).

 

You know, I correspond with police officers on a daily basis at work. I've received several comments over the years from them about the "cold tone" that they perceive from me because I do not use emoticons in professional correspondence. I think that this must partly attributed to generational differences, as I certainly recall being taught not to adopt this tone in my Grade 9 typing class (1986!), and am simply not going to change my style for this...trend. In any case -- as I tell the police -- sometimes an e-mail (or forum post) is just an e-mail, and not some psychosocial weapon.

 

Wow, what a thread :-o

 

...involving forty year-old tech...plagiarized software manuals...and stolen book covers! I see lots of valid points here, but have still wanted to giggle on several occasions over the thought of all this drama. :-D

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I almost backed the book in spite of the problems, until I realized with shipping it would have been $50. :-o

 

 

i'm intrigued to know where exactly your break-points are:

 

■ one or two grammatical errors - $50

■ plentiful grammatical errors - $40

■ plentiful grammatical errors and "borrowed" cover - $30

■ plentiful grammatical errors, "borrowed" cover and wiki cut n pastes - £20

■ plentiful grammatical errors, "borrowed" cover, wiki cut n pastes and use of orginal titles without permission - $10

■ plentiful grammatical errors, "borrowed" cover, wiki cut n pastes, use of original titles without permission & badly written FB/KS/forum comms - $0

 

:)

Edited by Guest
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Retrogamer Magazine is NOT Atari friendly. They pay lip service, and have over the years changed their tune slightly fron "The Amiga version was just a toss ST port" to "There is little separating the ST and Amiga ports". They sometimes cover Atari, but not in every issue. Their "books" are a kind of a joke (although I own most of them).

 

Yes I've followed the Retrogamer trend and its just a little biased..

 

I feel sorry for TMR on here who does their homegrown stuff for the Retrogamer mag and manages to get in Atari 8 bit stuff despite the imbalance by the mag..Fair play to him, Obviously he mentions all computers / consoles worth of homegrown (as he should) but does get our devs some limelight..

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Ive backed the book and am looking forward to it.

 

This thread is very depressing reading. The level of righteousness about copyright is ironic given I would assume everyone in the community has software they dont own, me included.

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Ive backed the book and am looking forward to it.

 

This thread is very depressing reading. The level of righteousness about copyright is ironic given I would assume everyone in the community has software they dont own, me included.

you've missed the point entirely. yes, having software you don't own is illegal, but it's far, far worse to make money by reproducing and then selling original works as your own.

 

i hope you're happy with the book - if and when it materialises.

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ely, I think the copyright issues overshadowed the actual points too much, the actual posts were about the strange poor content of a so called ready to go to the printers book. It on the face of it was riddled with the most basic issues including c&p wiki posts, grammar and spelling issues let alone example pages that were just placeholders...Hardly the best way to promote a book by a known publisher.

 

It was well below the expectations pushed at the KS launch and all there in plain sight to see.

 

But its been funded, we all hope it gets rectified and you guys get a great book..If its great then maybe a 2nd print run will happen and others can get hold of it....

 

Paul..

 

I just hope that IF the book happens and its no different then I do hope people will remember that it was claimed as ready to print by Darren so not one post of all this would have affected the book so not to blame us..

 

We obviously truthfully hope its not like that..

Edited by Mclaneinc
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you've missed the point entirely. yes, having software you don't own is illegal, but it's far, far worse to make money by reproducing and then selling original works as your own.

 

i hope you're happy with the book - if and when it materialises.

Yeah maybe I have, but whatever, life is too short to read pages and pages of this stuff.
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