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Atari : A Visual History Book is now LIVE on Kickstarter

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At least we know the spelling is OK on that page.

 

With a copy-and-paste like that? It better be!

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Posted (edited)

If only the people directed this kind of crap at the myriads of folks who steal music or re arrange the same giving no credit to the original works.... I mean how many clone games are out there now, and even back in the day? Sorry can't stand the hypocrisy.... Yeah the cover was a straight rip and he was trying to get permission or replace it.. you'd think everyone owns the information and the original artwork. I just don't understand it is all. Everything turns into a free for all melee on AA anymore and the usual suspects pile on.

 

I hope whatever concerns are addressed and it gets a really hard long edit / scrub and writing changes as needed and we end up with something nice. Who knows if we will or won't... but at this rate we've lost so many people and too much talent these last few years that I really want happiness and success all around. Shame, a real shame all around. Regular people are trying hard to do something and look what they get, even the companies trying to do things get the same. Just hope we all can get along instead always joining the pile on of dog poo that keeps happening over and over. I always thought we were better than this kind of thing. Yet another thread I am walking away from...

Edited by _The Doctor__
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Posted (edited)

Last post...And Last edit..

 

I also think as a community we care for others and what they get, I got pretty grotty treatment as did others and some pointed out actual real issues with the so called finished book and that is WITHOUT the cover..Maybe they should not have bothered and left people POSSIBLY moaning about what they got..

 

They did bother because they care and now its time to sink the boot in for them...

 

And that is why the forums can clash....

 

Put it another way, how many times have people got this deep in to the content of another book over the years?

 

I can't remember any and I have been here 20 ish years or maybe more in one way or another. Maybe there's been the odd comment over magazine scores or content they thought wasn't given enough time but usually its keen support and thank you's all around, makes you wonder why there was a difference this time and I think it was the right thing to do because it isn't what it says on the tin.

 

That matters..

 

Over and OUT...

Edited by Mclaneinc
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It's a hopeful sign that people aren't just accepting things at face value any more, people are starting to get used to checking sources for information they get from others. It's a good sign that maybe #fakenews won't be able to influence people the way it has recently any more.

 

I know that when someone tells me something my first instinct now is to check the sources or try to find them for myself before passing the info on. We no longer live in a world where we can believe what people say. I think that's a sad thing, but it is a sign of the times.

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So, that's the reason, you all came down on him like we were on FB.

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I think everyone is now coming down on each other more than on Greyfoxx. ;)

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Not just FB, you can't trust anyone, anywhere any more (that is sadly becoming more true all the time) so a level of scepticism that we didn't need in the past is now 'the norm' and innocent things people say get more scrutiny than they used to. Everyone has an agenda and it isn't always the agenda they say it is. Believing everything you hear on the news is still a problem, the news isn't purely fact driven any more, every station is driving a political bias. It never used to be like that.

 

Other things have changed. One I noticed just recently is that when I was a kid, we were taught to answer the phone when it rang. Nowadays kids are taught not to answer the phone unless they know who is calling. As a result spam, scam and nuisance calls are only an issue for people over 40 and we all now need to learn to silence or ignore a ringing phone.

 

post-62759-0-06969600-1559053987.jpg

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So, that's the reason, you all came down on him like we were on FB.

 

or more to the point: people have raised valid concerns - many of which the seller has still to address.

 

let's face some facts here. if you went to buy a brand car and found the wheels were "borrowed" from another car, the paintjob was full of cracks and the registration/service record were full of errors and inconsistencies, would you still buy that car?

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Posted (edited)

It seems to me prudent to exercise critical thinking when the assurance that "it's all gonna be great when it's finished!" is undermined by much of the available evidence. "We have taken every detail to ensure..." the Kickstarter blurb begins. It appears I am to believe this passage was composed by an aspiring professional writer who is trying to sell his product on the grounds of quality and attention to detail. The fact such observations elicit nothing but excuses and/or accusations of ill-will or pedantry are entirely unsurprising, since that's the way it always goes with these projects.

Edited by flashjazzcat
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My point is that much of the criticism, now veiled as "critical thinking" and "valid concerns", were arrogant and unfair. The critisicm often were not about cracks in the paint, but rather about not offering exactly the shade of my favorite colour, the manufacturer doesn't have.

But, we can still waste our time going in circle about a dead horse and continue beating it.

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if a writer wants to get their first book published the conventional way, then they have to do so by dealing with publishers. Said publishers - if they even like the idea itself - will employ staff to run over every aspect of the book with a fine-tooth comb. Only then - if they still want to back it - will they proceed.

 

In Darren's instance, KS backers and those considering investing, are his publishers. It's the right of anyone considering backing such a project to voice their concerns, and - most importantly - have guarantees from the writer, that ALL will be addressed and dealt with prior to printing.

 

If people on an internet forum think it's unreasonable for potential buyers to ask questions/voice concerns, then there's something really wrong with those people. why would anyone (whether you've noticed/ignored/raised the concerns yourself) want to go ahead and buy something that really isn't anywhere near as good as it claims to be?

 

Those people, clearly have far too much money!

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Posted (edited)

My point is that much of the criticism, now veiled as "critical thinking" and "valid concerns", were arrogant and unfair. The critisicm often were not about cracks in the paint, but rather about not offering exactly the shade of my favorite colour, the manufacturer doesn't have.

But, we can still waste our time going in circle about a dead horse and continue beating it.

not having exactly the shade of colour? you mean like having pictures that were the creator's own work, and words presented in an articulate and logical manner.

it's a book - of words and pictures.

■ much of the written word we've actually been privy to is badly written, grammatically poor and - let's face it (unless certain things have been changed) could go to print with "wiki" cut n pastes in place.

■ cover is a copy of someone else's work - how does that inspire anyone about the photographic content within the covers?

■ no permission was gained for use of specific items: "we tried to contact the publisher" is not a response. you don't get permission, then YOU DON'T USE IT.

■ much of the advertising blurb is badly written, grammatically substandard and well let's say truncated. the opening paragraph begins

"We have taken every detail to ensure that the content of the book is second to none" and ends: "how we remastered the boxart that is included in the" who ends a sentence like that? what does that even mean?

 

c'mon, seriously Jochen, this is just a small snapshot of the issues...people are asking very reasonable questions - and they've every right to do so?

 

as we're part of the Atari community, ask yourself this:. someone develops a new piece of Atari hardware and tries to sell it to the community, then we discover...it doesn't work because the coding is error ridden and not only that but half the software won't work with it because a poor batch of ICs was used in the initial build. would you be happy if you bought one?

 

no you wouldn't. and you'd be thankful to those that (during beta testing phase) highlighted the issues, to ensure the product you bought at market was as best it could be.

 

This community has been Darren's beta testers - what he does with that is up to him. but for you to call people flagging up genuine issues "arrogant" is wholly wrong.

Edited by brenski
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And please don't forget this statement:

 

"Everything is ready to go as soon as the funding is met, The book is completed and does not need any additional time to add content, this has been a risk in producing it firstly before going to funding, but I wanted to simply be in a position to deliver the book as soon as possible to everyone, rather than a long wait like many other crowd funded books, So as soon as things start to take shape and we get closer to our goals, the quicker we can all lavish with excitement with this book sitting in our hands."

 

source: kickstarter

 

I think people are allowed to be critical as long as it is fair and not a rant.

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Posted (edited)

And please don't forget this statement:

 

"Everything is ready to go as soon as the funding is met, The book is completed and does not need any additional time to add content, this has been a risk in producing it firstly before going to funding, but I wanted to simply be in a position to deliver the book as soon as possible to everyone, rather than a long wait like many other crowd funded books, So as soon as things start to take shape and we get closer to our goals, the quicker we can all lavish with excitement with this book sitting in our hands."

 

source: kickstarter

 

I think people are allowed to be critical as long as it is fair and not a rant.

@Fred_M bl**dy hell - i never even saw that bit. that indicates no changes at all are to be made.

 

gobsmacked.

Edited by brenski

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Not necessarily, this update was written at the start of the Kickstarter campaign. So a few weeks ago, before the discussion started here.

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Brenski, your whole argument about raising concerns is moot, because all of you dont want to buy the book any way in the first place. I didnt register with me as raising the same reasonable questions.

But we are probably just mindless sheep, who cant make decisions for themselves.

Again, its going circles. There are no new arguments. We heard them all. Nothing to see, move on.

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To stay on your car analogy, you criticize the colour of the car, you dont want anyway.

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But it does indicate that the content as presented in the Kickstarter was deemed 'final' not 'just mockups' as claimed.

 

Who has the content complete and ready to send to a printer but uses images from the initial mockup of the book in the advertising?

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...the quicker we can all lavish with excitement with this book sitting in our hands.

 

What is that even supposed to mean?

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Posted (edited)

To stay on your car analogy, you criticize the colour of the car, you dont want anyway.

you are talking nonsense.

i'd be interested in a good, well-written book that was also an original piece of work.

 

fact: the people complaining that others are "finding fault with this book" will be the very first to complain about the book when it arrives...by which time it's too late.

 

here's a thing: if you promise to stop replying to me, i'll ignore this thread.

 

then, the risk is all your own. but please don't goad me into replying again.

Edited by brenski

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Gawd...I didn't want to post but its just painful to see..

 

JoSch, how is it wrong to post that you see issues in an item, especially if the issues put you off or even if the book is not for you..

 

I don't see how its moot to raise that concern JUST because you don't want it yourself...If you critique on false issues then yes, but all of these are plain to see.

 

I've got some great friends on here, I want the best for them too, in my case Darren made me wanting the book impossible, and then the cracks in what was offered and what was real started to show...You HAVE to include the fact that Darren straight away in PRINT said it was finished and ready to go to the printers, if you just ignore that then it make's a lot of what you said just as moot for different reasons.

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But it does indicate that the content as presented in the Kickstarter was deemed 'final' not 'just mockups' as claimed.

 

Who has the content complete and ready to send to a printer but uses images from the initial mockup of the book in the advertising?

Darren, obviously. Just because you wouldn't do that, you can neither derive any lies or misleading statements nor that Darren is wrong. He might have his reasons, like having a demanding day job, were has to choose what he wants to do with his time, like creating a new cover, drum up more backers. But hey, it's so easy to only accept your own world view and demand of everybody else, it's the only way.

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