+Karl G Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I'm trying to track down an odd issue to see if it is specific to one console/multicart combo, or if it can be replicated by anyone else. Specifically, my game crashed on the Zeropage Homebrew light sixer when loaded with a Harmony Encore. Since then, it has been stable on the same system with an Unocart, and on a different system (a Jr.) with the same Encore cart. On my end, I have had no problems on hardware with an Unocart on my Jr. or on the 7800. To summarize: Game on ZPH light sixer and Harmony Encore: unstable Game on same light sixer with Unocart: stable Game on Atari Jr. with same Harmony Encore: stable Game on my Unocart on my Jr. and 7800: stable The only thing I can think to try is to see if there is instability with the combination of an Encore and a light sizer for anyone else, or if it is an isolated issue. Does anyone have this combo of hardware, and be willing to try loading my game? Thanks in advance for any help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monzamess Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Seems stable to me but I only tried it for about 5 minutes. Light sixer with Harmony Encore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 Great! Thank you for giving it a try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Works on my light sixer; however, it is hit or miss in Stella: I have Stella's Developer mode turned on, I suspect you don't. As a developer you really need to turn it on. It'll expose issues that can cause problems on some, but not all, Atari consoles - which is exactly what we're seeing here for ZPH. A common problem is to leave off a # for an immediate mode instruction, such as using LDA $02 when you meant to use LDA #$02. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 Thank you for trying it out. I have been developing with developer options enabled, actually, and I have caught a number of bugs that way. My posted version isn't my current version since I switched to my own world map because I want to avoid spoilers. I was thinking my last posted version was stable, however. It is possible that I have fixed whatever problems you have encountered in the midst of my development since then. Could I send you my current version privately, perchance? I appreciate your advice and help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Sure thing, I'll check it out this evening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 is there a 32k version availble at all for regular harmony cart, maybe an earlier build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Was waiting for a compile so did some quick tests. Works fine on my light sixer. Works much better in Stella, though still "crashes" on occasion: What's interesting is I've never seen RWP in the Breakpoint Status box below the TIA ZOOM before. I suspect, but don't know for sure as I don't see it in the online help, that it's for Break on Reads from Write Ports. Based on the different random images being drawn for each crash, I suspect RAM isn't getting initialized. So I typed RESET and stepped scanline by scanline thru the init process and watched as zero-page RAM was initialized (green arrow), but never saw cartridge RAM (purple arrow) get initialized. So the first thing I suggest is to modify your init routine so it also zeros out cartridge RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 It's true that I don't initialize SC RAM, but I also use every byte of it for my tiled display, status bar and message bar, so it all gets written to within the first few frames before it is read from. I can certainly add that as a precaution, though. I'll take a look at the option to break when reading from write ports to see if I can get that to trigger. If you happen to see any steps to reproduce a crash, please let me know. Thanks again for taking a look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Cartridge RAM definitely appears to be used before it's initialized. Enter the debugger then type: reset frame frame you'll end up with garbage graphics. Type frame once more and you'll see the expected graphics.This reminds me of a bug I had in Stay Frosty 2, caused by using a variable for the snowball that wasn't initialized before the first frame of the game screen was drawn. At the time Stella didn't have ARM support, so I recorded my display then stepped thru it frame by frame to figure out what was wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 You were right - I was reading before doing my initial write. I would think that in this case the difference would just be cosmetic if the eye could catch it. I added the initialization to a known value (blank tile for map, and space character for status/text bars). It looks like the debugger option to break when reading from write ports is already enabled. I haven't gotten it to trigger so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I haven't gotten it to trigger so far. It's not common. load game wait for game screen hit CONTROL-R goto 2 Just did that 30 times and the debugger trapped 4 times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 Excellent. I can get it to trip by the same way. Once I added the RAM init code, I can't any longer. One bug gone, thanks to you. Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Awesome! Hopefully ZPH can run it on his sixer now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) If I could hijack this thread to continue on with discussing the issue I have with my Harmony Encore, my RGB Modded Light Sixer and Penult as I think I've stumbled on to something today. I just made a connection between a number of games that I've been having trouble running on my system that all seem to have the same issue: 1) Penult (EFSC* 64K) 2) Robot Zed (EF* 64K) 3) Distopia (EFSC* 64K) 4) Abyss of Chernobyl (EFSC* 64K) 5) Zippy the Porcupine (EF* 64K) <-- EDIT: Added When booting them, I'll see the normal loading screen and then see the 'e' filling up (indicating that it's using the Encore abilities of the cart). The game starts and plays for seconds/minutes, usually with visual glitches but always ends up freezing at some point. The audio will sometimes stick on a tone, the screen will always flicker, sometimes with vertical lines running down the screen and then usually go blank. Here's a video demonstrating some of the behaviour of the above games: Note: 1) Penult actually ran longer than usual and took a while to crash, but it did. 2) Robot Zed was constantly resetting which it shouldn't be doing, it also drew a maze wrong that I was barely able to get past. It eventually crashed though. 3) I couldn't get it to crash this time on Distopia but it normally does. This game has line count issues causing screen jump, sorry for the visuals. 4) Could get through the menu but froze just before the game started. 5) Numerous graphical glitches, game resetting and finally crashing GAMES 1-4: (BE SURE TO SET TO 1080P 60FPS!!) GAME 5: (BE SURE TO SET TO 1080P 60FPS!!) - I don't have any issues with playing any games on the Harmony Encore on my RGB light sixer that don't use the Encore part of the cart. - All of these games play perfectly with my Harmony Encore Cart in my unmodded Atari Jr. and other unmodded systems - It doesn't seem to point specifically to the Encore or my Light Sixer specifically but ONLY the combination of the two Does anyone know if the Encore part of the cart uses more power to run games than non-Encore games? Could it be my RGB mod is sapping *just* enough power that there's not enough left for the Encore? Does anybody know of other games/demos that use the Encore part of the Harmony Encore? It's driving me crazy. Edited September 10, 2019 by ZeroPage Homebrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 I just tried out Penult and Robot Zed on my Harmony Encore that is in my Light Sixer. I do NOT have an RGB mod. However, I do have a simple composite mod. I did not experience any issues at all. My power supply is an original 9VDC 500ma. ZPH, I see you mention yours is RGB modded. Possibly there is a power supply issue and you're not getting enough amps to power your set up? I would start there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, chad5200 said: I just tried out Penult and Robot Zed on my Harmony Encore that is in my Light Sixer. I do NOT have an RGB mod. However, I do have a simple composite mod. I did not experience any issues at all. My power supply is an original 9VDC 500ma. ZPH, I see you mention yours is RGB modded. Possibly there is a power supply issue and you're not getting enough amps to power your set up? I would start there. Thanks for testing @chad5200, and I think you're right, all signs point to power supply at this moment. I think the power required for the RGB board plus the additional power needed for the Encore puts it over the top. I asked the ZPH viewers today on our Twitch livestream and that's the conclusion they came to as well. It was recommended I get a 9V 800mA power supply to test with next. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick3092 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 4 hours ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said: Thanks for testing @chad5200, and I think you're right, all signs point to power supply at this moment. I think the power required for the RGB board plus the additional power needed for the Encore puts it over the top. I asked the ZPH viewers today on our Twitch livestream and that's the conclusion they came to as well. It was recommended I get a 9V 800mA power supply to test with next. Thanks! I believe the original 2600 voltage regulator is only rated for 500ma. If you think you are hitting that limit, you should replace it with a 1A rated one (if you haven't yet). A cap kit like those sold by Console5 come with a 1A regulator as well. And it can't hurt to also replace the caps if you haven't yet either. Especially the main filter cap if you are suspecting power issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 I bought a 9A 1000mA power supply today and soldered on a 2.5mm jack on it. It powers the system but sadly it doesn't behave any differently than the original power supply and is still crashing all the 64K games that use the Encore part of the cart. https://leeselectronic.com/en/product/1451.html @nick3092, which of the Console5 cap kits should I get for my light sixer? I'm guessing by 'Early 6-Switch' they mean heavy sixers and not light sixers? Atari 2600 4-Switch / Late 6-switch / Junior : https://console5.com/store/atari-2600-junior-refresh-cap-kit-new-capacitors-and-more.html Atari 2600 Early 6-Switch Total Refresh Tune-Up & Cap Kit https://console5.com/store/atari-2600-total-refresh-kit-new-capacitors.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) On Console5's web site... if you go to the "Atari 2600 (Light Sixer)" page it shows the "ATARI 2600 6-SWITCH, 4-SWITCH, AND JUNIOR TUNE UP REFRESH & CAP KITS - NEW CAPACITORS AND MORE!" kit. https://console5.com/store/cap-kits.html?console_type_revision=181 EDIT: oh dang... then the link there leads to both choices... hmmm.... Edited September 13, 2019 by chad5200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick3092 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 I would assume he is calling light sixers the late sixers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 On 9/12/2019 at 6:40 PM, ZeroPage Homebrew said: I bought a 9A 1000mA power supply today and soldered on a 2.5mm jack on it. It powers the system but sadly it doesn't behave any differently than the original power supply and is still crashing all the 64K games that use the Encore part of the cart. https://leeselectronic.com/en/product/1451.html @nick3092, which of the Console5 cap kits should I get for my light sixer? I'm guessing by 'Early 6-Switch' they mean heavy sixers and not light sixers? Atari 2600 4-Switch / Late 6-switch / Junior : https://console5.com/store/atari-2600-junior-refresh-cap-kit-new-capacitors-and-more.html Atari 2600 Early 6-Switch Total Refresh Tune-Up & Cap Kit https://console5.com/store/atari-2600-total-refresh-kit-new-capacitors.html PM me and I'll get another Harmony Encore out to you to try out, so we can at least see if yours has a hardware fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) NEW DEVELOPMENT! I recently got my RGB light-sixer repaired (thanks @Nathan Strum!) so I was able to do more testing with Penult and the other four 'Encore Only' games. Sadly they still crashed... I also had a loaner S-Video modded four-switch (thanks @Albert!) while my RGB was being repaired and the exact same issue happened on that console with the five games. I tried two different Harmony Encore carts in both systems (thanks @batari!), three different power supplies and two different displays. Every time the games would crash in the same way. I also tried the five games on a composite modded system and an RF unmodded system, both work with all five games using the Harmony Encore cart. BUT... My UnoCart now DOES work thanks to the repair, so I loaded up the five games onto the UnoCart and my RGB light-sixer and THEY ALL WORKED! No crashing or display glitches at all. The UnoCart also worked on the S-Video four-switch. This seems to now point away from an possible incompatibility between the games and the RGB/S-Vid mod and more toward the RGB/S-Vid mod and the Harmony Encore. In Summary: CRASH: Harmony Encore + RGB /S-Video WORKS: Harmony Encore + Composite/RF WORKS: UnoCart + RGB/S-Video/Composite/RF What could this be? Difference in power requirements between the Encore and UnoCart when you have a modded system? The way the Encore talks to a modded system? Anybody else out there have an S-Video or RGB modded system to test these games out with a Harmony Encore? - James Edited August 2, 2020 by ZeroPage Homebrew 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+groundtrooper Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 @ZeroPage Homebrew Besides Penult what are the other 3 games? Are the publicly available? I have a light sixer that is AV/SVideo Modded and an Encore. I could drop them on my SD card and see what they do? Do they crash right out of the gate? Let me know and I would be happy to see what they do on mine. It's been a while since I watched the Penult episode and can't remember what was going on, and I watched all the episodes that you played in Stella so I just need a refresher replicating the crash if it is something other than a loading crash. It's great that Nathan could fix your console and you are back playing on really hardware with RGB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, groundtrooper said: Besides Penult what are the other 3 games? Are the publicly available? Here's the list of five games. There are builds of all of them publicly available to test with, I've linked to each of them now. 1) Penult (EFSC* 64K) 2) Robot Zed (EF* 64K) 3) Dystopia (EFSC* 64K) 4) Abyss of Chernobyl (EFSC* 64K) 5) Zippy the Porcupine (EF* 64K) Quote I have a light sixer that is AV/SVideo Modded and an Encore. I could drop them on my SD card and see what they do? Do they crash right out of the gate? Let me know and I would be happy to see what they do on mine. It's been a while since I watched the Penult episode and can't remember what was going on, and I watched all the episodes that you played in Stella so I just need a refresher replicating the crash if it is something other than a loading crash. It's great that Nathan could fix your console and you are back playing on really hardware with RGB. That's awesome, thanks for helping out @groundtrooper!! Penult is the easiest to test with, it will crash shortly after you appear in the open world map right after you build your character. The visuals will start glitching out and either go to black or solid vertical (playfield?) stripes on the screen, very similar to the screenshots that Darrell posted earlier. The other four games will crash at random places but usually not too far into starting to play them. Sometimes they'll reset to the title screen and then crash fully later. - James Edited August 2, 2020 by ZeroPage Homebrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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