Jump to content
Flojomojo

Dumping ROMs without consent of machine owner

Recommended Posts

I thought it was a fascinating article as well, though I'm not sure I believe the "sneaky technician" bit either. Whatever the truth, I'm happy it's out there now. Let me just append Akka Arrh to my backlog of games I need to get around to playing. There we go: #11,421 - should be any day now.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love to question things and come up with comparisons that make people think about something differently.

 

What if the tech was repairing the games, and instead found some topless photos of the owners wife, the published them online? I mean, the owner was hoarding them, and it's just a copy- he still has full access to his wife (presumably).

 

Right? Who is harmed. Were there damages? I guess the arcade machine is not a person with rights, where the wife is, but let's pretend instead the owner was the topless woman in question instead.

 

 

:)

Edited by R.Cade
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love to question things and come up with comparisons that make people think about something differently.

 

What if the tech was repairing the games, and instead found some topless photos of the owners wife, the published them online? I mean, the owner was hoarding them, and it's just a copy- he still has full access to his wife (presumably).

 

Right? Who is harmed. Were there damages? I guess the arcade machine is not a person with rights, where the wife is, but let's pretend instead the owner was the topless woman in question instead.

 

 

:)

[insert Rodney Dangerfield ugly wife joke here]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would someone cook up a villainous side story? Wouldn't coming off as the Good Guy be easier and better all around? As far as I can tell Billy Mitchell was not involved. It would get the same level of attention either way.

 

They all know each other. If you want to stay on friendly terms with the others, why would you disclose that you're the one that released rom dumps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

They all know each other. If you want to stay on friendly terms with the others, why would you disclose that you're the one that released rom dumps?

That's not a crowd worth befriending.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727AZ using Tapatalk

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has MAME not released this yet or is it still only in the big 60GB MAMEdev rom packs? Just wondering because I can't find it online on its own.

i found it on its own in 5 minutes using google.

 

 

OZ2eJde.png

vdYNAca.png

9CuCYIZ.png

 

1lDtjfl.png

 

TrYGcj0.png

 

x0y9Pzj.png

its awesome, i am using a trackball to play.

 

later

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[insert Rodney Dangerfield ugly wife joke here]

That game was so bad, Atari had to hang a pork chop on the controls so the dog would play it.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To use an analogy, he didn't steal your rake, he just borrowed it without asking. Not cool, but don't try to frame it as theft when that's not what it is.

 

 

I thought that is theft? If not, I'm gonna stop buying games and just go by the GameStore and borrow titles without asking. :-D I'll be like "don't bother calling the cops, I'll bring it back in a few days."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't believe the story and suspect it's just a cover story for an owner that decided they wanted these to be released.

 

That said, has anyone fired it up? Curious about thoughts on how the game plays. Didn't have any luck personally in tracking it down, so will wait a while and let it spread further.

It's awesome, because i love trackball games.

 

It's part missile command, liberator, with a dash of star castle (when zoomed in),

with a tiny bit of reactor.

 

classic atari gameplay, graphics, sounds from 1982.

 

i would have played it to death if it had made it out.

but at least we get to play it now.

 

later

-1

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that is theft? If not, I'm gonna stop buying games and just go by the GameStore and borrow titles without asking. :-D I'll be like "don't bother calling the cops, I'll bring it back in a few days."

gamestop has a 48 hour return policy now i think.

not sure if that applies to opened games. it should.

 

later

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with others that have said, if the story is true, then the breach of ethics by the tech is inexcusable. But it's not infringing the machine owner's copyrights, since he has none.

 

I am presently in possession of non-public console ROMs, which were provided to me for technical consultation. Even though I personally believe all ROMs should be eventually released to the public (after the commercial life of the ROM is done) I can't release the ones I have. My word is my bond.

 

However now that the Akka Arrh roms are out there, I don't believe it's any less ethical to download them than downloading pac-man, dig dug, etc.

 

What if the tech was repairing the games, and instead found some topless photos of the owners wife, the published them online? I mean, the owner was hoarding them, and it's just a copy- he still has full access to his wife (presumably).

The analogy doesn't quite fit. Maybe if the owner purchased the pictures of his topless wife from a company that used to profit from topless wife photos, but no longer does so because the general public lost interest in topless wife photos. If said photo holder then went to topless wife conventions and allowed random people to peep at them, then the analogy might fit.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with others that have said, if the story is true, then the breach of ethics by the tech is inexcusable. But it's not infringing the machine owner's copyrights, since he has none.

 

I am presently in possession of non-public console ROMs, which were provided to me for technical consultation. Even though I personally believe all ROMs should be eventually released to the public (after the commercial life of the ROM is done) I can't release the ones I have. My word is my bond.

 

However now that the Akka Arrh roms are out there, I don't believe it's any less ethical to download them than downloading pac-man, dig dug, etc.

 

 

The analogy doesn't quite fit. Maybe if the owner purchased the pictures of his topless wife from a company that used to profit from topless wife photos, but no longer does so because the general public lost interest in topless wife photos. If said photo holder then went to topless wife conventions and allowed random people to peep at them, then the analogy might fit.

Also makes a difference how good the photos are. Just sayin'.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be surprised if collectors of rare games don't have the roms backed-up. The technician should be thanked.

Edited by mr_me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also on team dump the game while you can. Bit rot is real people! I'm reminded of a incident that happened at a gathering in NJ. I will change the names of the people to protect the innocent and guilty.

In the mid 90s there was a gathering of video gamers that would happen about four times a year. On one particular occasion a collector came from a great distance. We will call him "Richard" or "Dick" for short. He had a copy of an Atari VCS prototype game that nobody really knew existed at this time. The game in question was Aquaventure. The people there were really surprised about this game that was basically complete and unknown.

I got to the gathering after the original collector that brought the game did, so it was cool to find out about it. Richard had spoken to "Clark" the owner of the establishment that hosted the gatherings and told him not to touch the cartridge. He then told "Peter", a well known collector that believes in preservation not to dump the cartridge. Dick was adamant in his resolve to not have this game dumped because it would lessen the value of his collection. So it was at this time that a plan was coming together. These gatherings would usually last way late into the morning of the next day. On this occasion it happened around 1 or 2 in the morning. Several of us started to hang outside the in the parking lot. We got Dick to come out and chill and talk story (I now live in Hawaii and talk story is a thing out here for having a conversation).

While this was happening Peter took the cartridge and put it into the rom dumper that they had there, but respected the wishes of Dick and didn't dump the rom. Clark whom was told not to touch the cartridge did what was asked of him and didn't touch the cartridge, but he did dump the cartridge onto the computer. I'm not sure how many dumps they attempted at this time. It could have been one, or it could have been a couple times. Once this was finished Clark turned the rom dumper off. Peter then took the cartridge out of the rom dumper and placed it back in Dick's collection. At the end of the day, both Clark and Peter respected Dick's wishes. Clark didn't touch the cartridge and Peter didn't dump the cartridge. A couple hours later every attendee that was there at the time (Well maybe not Dick) got a copy of the rom in their emails. Because of this you can now play Aquaventure on your Atari Flashback consoles and your flash cartridges and repros.

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i found it on its own in 5 minutes using google.its awesome, i am using a trackball to play.

 

later

-1

I found a site where I have to give my credit card info to register and another at a russian site with a nonsense website address. Rather wait for the typical sites.

 

--Also beware the NSFW pop-ups for some of these sites ... for example, young lady urinating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also on team dump the game while you can. Bit rot is real people! I'm reminded of a incident that happened at a gathering in NJ. I will change the names of the people to protect the innocent and guilty.

 

In the mid 90s there was a gathering of video gamers that would happen about four times a year. On one particular occasion a collector came from a great distance. We will call him "Richard" or "Dick" for short. He had a copy of an Atari VCS prototype game that nobody really knew existed at this time. The game in question was Aquaventure. The people there were really surprised about this game that was basically complete and unknown.

 

I got to the gathering after the original collector that brought the game did, so it was cool to find out about it. Richard had spoken to "Clark" the owner of the establishment that hosted the gatherings and told him not to touch the cartridge. He then told "Peter", a well known collector that believes in preservation not to dump the cartridge. Dick was adamant in his resolve to not have this game dumped because it would lessen the value of his collection. So it was at this time that a plan was coming together. These gatherings would usually last way late into the morning of the next day. On this occasion it happened around 1 or 2 in the morning. Several of us started to hang outside the in the parking lot. We got Dick to come out and chill and talk story (I now live in Hawaii and talk story is a thing out here for having a conversation).

 

While this was happening Peter took the cartridge and put it into the rom dumper that they had there, but respected the wishes of Dick and didn't dump the rom. Clark whom was told not to touch the cartridge did what was asked of him and didn't touch the cartridge, but he did dump the cartridge onto the computer. I'm not sure how many dumps they attempted at this time. It could have been one, or it could have been a couple times. Once this was finished Clark turned the rom dumper off. Peter then took the cartridge out of the rom dumper and placed it back in Dick's collection. At the end of the day, both Clark and Peter respected Dick's wishes. Clark didn't touch the cartridge and Peter didn't dump the cartridge. A couple hours later every attendee that was there at the time (Well maybe not Dick) got a copy of the rom in their emails. Because of this you can now play Aquaventure on your Atari Flashback consoles and your flash cartridges and repros.

dhMeAzK.gif?noredirect

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a site where I have to give my credit card info to register and another at a russian site with a nonsense website address. Rather wait for the typical sites.

 

--Also beware the NSFW pop-ups for some of these sites ... for example, young lady urinating.

dude, adblockers.. cmon, try something safe like:

 

retroroms info [hint hint]

 

later

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be the jerk on this one or in the right depending how it's viewed, but the fact that something that rare is out there, excellent, overdue, and needed to be done to truly preserve it and have it like a museum accessible to the masses. Sure there are 3 units in existence, because a copy of the ROMS are made does not alter, change, or negate the fact there still are only 3 original boards with the original chips with the original game on it. If you still want to own one of the three and IF it came up on the market, you'll pay dearly for it.

 

The story here is much like a moldy swiss cheese, it's rank, and you can see through the argument all over. It is impossible someone who is that up on the food chain of hoarding expensive goods like that would leave anyone alone for the amount of time need to unsocket and burn each game chip. Now, that could be argued away, the person somehow had early knowledge where the personal copy of the owner was and just USB stick or jacked a CD or drive with it sitting on it. But, can you make that argument given what is said, because that was never mentioned and makes far more sense. Pouring over hours of data from a security system is bs, if that was stolen, and someone was crying about it hours, days, weeks later, you could have already slid through the day or chunk of a day in question already as it would not take long. Yet, this whine fest acts like it needed to still be done which makes zero sense at all.

 

Odds are as others already said all over, a current owner or former owner decided to be cool and museum level preserve it through a dump and MAME inclusion but didn't want to be the jerk in the room to the other 2-3 parties preserving their anonymity.

 

Ultimately though, and it's the biggest elephant in the room is the disgusting arrogance of any so called 'owner' of a prototype. Foolish sorts paying hundreds thousands or tens of thousands for an unreleased game thinking they somehow actually own it lock stock and barrel. All you've done is acquire the materials that store the data, but the data on it is effectively stolen merchandise most likely. Unless you went to the original right holder (or whoever in time from A-B-C... is the holder) and bought the rights to the data, got a licensing agreement to distribute it, or bought the company out that currently own the goods you have no right to pull these stupid little games as it's all criminal. The only one I know of that does this is Eli (Piko) of Piko Interactive. He tracks down dead company owners or those who bought up the rights, or if they still exist talk to them and either buys out the IP or licenses it to do those releases he does.

 

These three little Atari hoarders don't effectively own a damn thing, they're effectively just thieves hoarding stolen merchandise lording it over everyone else. And in turn because of the leak you get to see a rife level of butthurt egotistical whining because the shit they don't actually own got put in the public's hands. Boo hoo.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what I understood:

 

"Your wife is becoming old!!! I will take some pictures of her in the shower for the benefit of the community!!!"

 

Sorry, but there were several types of infringement right there.

 

1. Infringement of owner privacy.

2. Abuse of confidence.

3. And still ROM releases technically aren't legal without authorization of the copyright holder.

(and still releasing pictures of the wife isn't legal without authorization of the wife!!!)

 

Also I see the consequences of this for collectors, now more important unreleased arcade machines will fail because collectors will lose faith in technicians.

 

This was bad with any lens. For one ROM we lose many more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good story. I know we discussed this in the context of Marble Man.

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/after-a-lost-atari-rom-leaks-retro-fans-ask-was-it-stolen/

 

I'm on Team Dump It While You Can And Never Mind The Collectors. Your opinion may well be different.

 

 

Well there's multiple angles, but I hold the view that if you didn't make it, and don't have the right to copy it, then you don't get a say in what happens to it. Regardless.

 

option 1, The ROM was stolen somehow. I, J random person on the internet, might seek it out, see if it works in MAME, play it for 10 minutes, and then forget about it. This is what happens to the vast majority of game ROMS, be them EEPROM's or Blueray discs. The collectors collect things, they see the value in having it, bonus if it works. They want to be the person who "has it".

 

option 2, The ROM was RE'd from some existing code. eg someone produced a counterfeit. This is probably not the case since the collector is upset and seems to "know" it came from their cabinet.

 

option 3, The ROM was backedup at some point , years ago, and the leaker IS the collector, and just wants to deflect attention from themselves.

 

Like of the rare arcade things I'd be interested in, the Marble Madness sequel is the one I would probably want to see emulated. So why Akka Arrh and not Marbleman?

 

If a tech really did "steal it" , how did they get enough time to do so? Regardless of the number of chips, how would they have known WHAT the chips were to have the right hardware to dump them? So my money is on the collector is the leaker, and he either had it dumped personally by someone, and then released it himself, or that "someone" who dumped it, kept a backup and released it themselves for whatever reason. The fact that the account connection is 2005 suggests that this could have happened 14 years ago, and the user was just waiting for a reason to.

 

Like here's a wild possibility, what if someone dumped it 14 years ago, created a draft post on the forum, and then never posted it? And whoever posted it was maybe instead had their account hacked?

 

Who knows.

 

I'm kinda of the mind that if you're holding onto something that can reasonably restored, it should be restored, an arcade cabinet still has value regardless of the game it runs, but you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think you have any rights to the game software. For all intents, if Atari wanted to sell it themselves, the only thing stopping them is a finding the original software and a purpose-built emulator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet it would be pretty interesting (expensive and a pile of lawyers) to even figure out who the real copyright holder is on the name and the code. I'm sure it isn't part of the AtacoBox holdings.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dude, adblockers.. cmon, try something safe like:

 

retroroms info [hint hint]

 

later

-1

 

obviously, if I'm expecting it. But it's an annoyance most of the time.

 

Thanks for the clue. Couldn't find it on the site through the front-end, but found I had to google "akkaarrh.zip" one word and then indirectly found it (google sends me to the wrong folder for some reason). You need an account for retroroms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...