Expensive NES Clones

[English Invader]

I'm dubious about these. I recently picked up a Hyperkin Retron HD from my local Game at the knockdown price of £19.99 and it has a lot of features for the money:

- upscales to 720p
- switchable between 50 and 60 Hz
- offers composite output for CRT
- has original NES controller ports
- comes with a very good controller that is more comfortable to use than the original NES gamepad

By contrast the much vaunted AVS sells for $185, offers the same 720p upscaling without the option for composite, provides the same support for old NES gamepads without providing any controllers as part of the package but instead offer a wireless controller for an additional $60. As far as I know, shipping a console without any gamepads is an industry first and. for the money they're getting, Retro USB should be able to manage a couple of wired controllers as part of the deal. I have original NES controllers but that's not the point.

So far, I've been very happy with the Retron HD. With some games, some of the colours are a little bit off but in the case of Paperboy that actually works in the game's favour and there are a couple of games that don't work but it's definitely a workable solution for getting your old NES games onto an HDTV. And, yes according to the reviews it also runs Castlevania 3. The only snags are that the Retron HD is not compatible with the Everdrive and there is no support for Famicom carts (these are two areas where the AVS wins out along with built-in Game Genie support and customisable display settings).

The reviews tend to focus on fashionable games like Mario 3, New Ghostbusters II and Castlevania 3 but for me the acid test for HD conversion is Galaga. This game is a joy to behold on a CRT but virtually unplayable on a flatscreen through composite and even HD doesn't quite provide that wonderful glow to expose the universe in all its glory. If Retro USB can show me an HD upscale of Galaga that equals or surpasses CRT, they have my money.

Anyone else here have experience of HD NES clones (expensive and inexpensive alike)?

[godslabrat]

You do realize there is a giant, MASSIVE difference in quality between the AVS and the Retron, right? Controllers included or not isn't even factored in here...

[English Invader]

Just found a good comparison review between the two systems and there is definitely a quality improvement with the AVS. The reviewer also makes a good choice of game for his comparison (Splatterhouse) which is on the dark side and a lot more apt to reveal shortcomings than something like Mario 3:

[Austin]

The FPGA consoles are in a totally different league. No input lag, no screen tearing, more accurate compatibility, better sound, etc. You are paying a premium for more premium experience. The cheaper clones will be fine for some people and they serve a necessary role in the market by offering an affordable (say, entry level) way to play some of these old games. However, as the saying goes, you get what you pay for and once you go FPGA, there's no going back.

[DragonGrafx-16]

I have no "HD" clone consoles because I have no need for them. As long as I have a CRT and my real consoles still work I will never go clone... though back when I used a HDTV with them it looked fine... but my HDTV is 10 years old now an it actually has good composite picture.

[derFunkenstein]

I cant handle the color palette issues and audio inaccuracies of these cheap NES clones. Youre better off emulating than using a RetroN HD.

[Newsdee]

If one doesn't care about carts, putting money into getting a MiSTer (or MiST) may be a better investment over buying these other clones. Not only you get a NES FPGA core with zero lag, but also it is open source code that is being constantly updated by various people (e.g. MiSTer now has HDMI light gun support via Wiimotes if you use Dolphinbar).

 

If one does care about carts, the real difference is whether you are getting an emulator on a box that reads (dumps) carts, or a fully compatible hardware clone.

 

If you do not care about HDMI, an AV Famicom / NES 2 may be best since it's the original. Otherwise, there are various cheap Chinese clones that work with the Everdrive. The reason the Retron 1 does not is that they dump the cart (similar to the Retron 5). Also the Retrons rely on a DB of known games (last I checked) so they are not compatible with all carts.

 

The AVS is a NES/Famicom fully compatible with everything, including the Famicom Disk Sytem expansion hardware. It only lacks lightgun support.

 

So in my opinion there are much better options than the Retron 1 at various prices.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Newsdee

[Tanooki]

The AVS and really more so the Retron HD just seem like nonsense to me in the end. I went with using a spare top loader I had at the time and put a HiDefNES kit in there with Kevin Hortons solid work on his FPGA and I've got no complaints, a great blend of old and new that works marvelously. Sure it lacks the famicom support, but I've had a honeybee for years anyway so no biggie. I prefer using real games or an everdrive than just some lame rom loading box alone, nothing but trouble when you can have more than you can ever handle a push button away.

 

I'd just in general say to avoid anything from Hyperkin in general outside of a rare chance they get one right, which they did on the Supaboy S/SFC as it seems to run SNES/SFC stuff 100%, all chips, all weird one off quirks in games emulator stumble on, but that's about it. But even at that level if you're still going to use a TV the SuperNT handles that far prettier, but as a handheld it shouldn't be ignored.

[English Invader]

I guess there's no dispute that the AVS is the better upscaler but my Retron still seems like a pretty good deal at the price I paid for it. One thing to consider is that while 60Hz NTSC NES consoles are two a penny in the US, in the UK we have 50Hz PAL with no easy way to upgrade them to access games from the US and Japan at the speed for which they were intended. Most PAL CRT televisions will only give a black and white picture for an NTSC composite connection and RGB-Scart isn't supported by the NES hardware without an expensive mod so, for me, a £20 system that can run NTSC games at 60Hz with a full colour display through HDMI is worth its weight in gold. And, for the record, I haven't experienced any input lag or screen tearing.

 

It's also a shame that more people don't know how good the Hyperkin NES controller is.

[youxia]

I have European CRT sets and they do display NTSC, most new ones have this option. And for 20 quid you can get and mod an old Wii, and display either composite or RGB (RPi is also an option though it's twice the price with an RGB hat, but can do HDMI out of the box).

 

Now 20 pounds is not a lot and if this Retron works for you then fine, just saying there are probably better options in this price range too.

Edited May 1, 2019 by youxia

[newtmonkey]

They're all good for different things. Nothing will beat original hardware hooked up to a CRT, but hooking up an original NES to a modern LCD ruins the experience completely for me due to (depending on the TV) poor handling of 240p, lag, etc.

 

An upscaler with original hardware works beautifully, but that's a ton of money to spend just to play your NES.

 

The Retron is find if all you want to do is fire the flames of nostalgia and play the game how you remembered them from your childhood (sort of). It's a fine device to just pull out of the closet, plug in, and play some Mario or what have you for a night.

 

The AVS is a thing of beauty, and if all you want to do is play NES games with 99.9999% accuracy compared with actual hardware looking beautiful on a modern LCD, I'd recommend it whole-heartedly. Even though I've got a PVM with an actual AV Famicom hooked up in my office, I prefer to play on my AVS hooked up to my living room TV.

[Newsdee]

I agree that 20 GBP is a good price especially if you like the design of the case. There are mere Raspberry Pi enclosures that are more expensive than that.

 

However I don't think it invalidates the value of the more expensive options. I have a Retron 5 (with broken SNES pins) and a Retro Freak. Both have significant input lag compared to original or FPGA solutions. For some games it doesn't matter and the RFreak was my main "alternate" console for a couple of years, before FPGAs got better.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Newsdee

[TheCoolDave]

Expensiove ? Get a Minty orginal NES, restore it, and get a RGB kit for it ($95+shipping).... I have my RGB kit and just need the time to get started on it...

[godslabrat]

This thread has definitely made be wonder about the merits of an AVS vs. getting my top loader HDMI modded. It'd be the same price in the long run... but I've come to hate the jailbars so much, if I spend all that money and wind up with them anyway, I might just wreak havoc on the countryside...

[English Invader]

This thread has definitely made be wonder about the merits of an AVS vs. getting my top loader HDMI modded. It'd be the same price in the long run... but I've come to hate the jailbars so much, if I spend all that money and wind up with them anyway, I might just wreak havoc on the countryside...

 

I would have thought a console specifically designed for HDMI would be a better bet than a modded console. My experience with console mods is that they usually cause a defect or two somewhere along the line (the odd glitch or jittery sound) which is why I try to avoid them where possible. The only exception I've come across is my backlit and biverted original Gameboy.

 

Plus, with the AVS there are going to be regular firmware updates to iron out any bugs or incompatibilities so the AVS seems an infinitely safer bet.

[Newsdee]

Mods also always have a risk of breaking due to aging hardware. I have a modded Famicom which I loved, but had to stop using when the PPU chip stopped working.

 

Before FPGAs the clones always had some kind of caveat, and we had to live with it since it was baked in their chip (e.g. many Chinese clones were composite only with no way to mod, unlike an original FC).

 

The AVS (and others) offer a high level of compatibility and enhance the original in significant ways. And for me, since I am not living in the US or UK, I feel less concerned about not having access to people who can repair old hardware (shipping gets expensive).

Edited May 2, 2019 by Newsdee

[Memblers]

This thread has definitely made be wonder about the merits of an AVS vs. getting my top loader HDMI modded. It'd be the same price in the long run... but I've come to hate the jailbars so much, if I spend all that money and wind up with them anyway, I might just wreak havoc on the countryside...

The Hi-Def and AVS are both great options. Just FYI, the jailbars are an analog effect, presumably caused by electrical interference getting into the power supply and/or video signal. It can't possibly exist in the digital HDMI output. So the countryside is safe, for now.