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Phoenix video output


Yurkie

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess the ultimate way to test it is find someone who can beat Lady Bug’s Second Cucumber Level. (That’s when it starts going hyper fast enough where fractions of frames will be felt..) On lskill level one, on a CRT TV it's possible to beat because enemies are fast yet dumb. Then see if they do it on an HDMI connection and on an Analog input connector.

 

Go to the 10:40 point of this video to see how this would be a good test of ping time on Colecovision:

 

 

However if it is low enough lag where proper Gaming (4 ms or less ping) TV display can let you beat that Lady Bug level, then I guess I’ll have to buy a low-ping gaming monitor with HDMI. I’ll ned it for meodern games anyway

 

Then I’ll have 3 TVs, a CRT for Light Gun Games, a gaming monitor for low ping HDMI stuff, and the Playstaiton 3D monitor for 3D movies and games, which had a good-at-the-time 33 ms ping. And that was well before people complained about ping on TV.

 

I would like to buy a Collectorvision Phoenix because it’s a real Colecovision + 2600 + Super Game Module. A Colleoctorvision costs $200 vs $100 for adding a SGM on a flakey CV. If I’m going to buy a new CV, let the C stand for "Collector". But Collectorvision also Sells Super Action Modules for $100.

 

I’ve got 2 "mostly working" Colecovisions, a working 2600 Jr and a working Gemini don’t need if I buy this. I’ll post my 2 colecos on a separate place on AtariAge, and see how much these are worth as parts vs getting them repaired and sold as refurbished.

 

If I want to avoid the Ping issue totally, I can pay for a Composite and/or S-Video Mod. I would do component, but my TV and PVR don't do 240p component. They only do 480i component.

 

So with someone concerned about ping what’s the cheapest option? Sell one CV and have modded the other for composite/S-Video and later add the SGM? Sell both, buy a Collectorvision, and hope the composite adapter is zero ping and buy that? Or do the same, except buy a gaming monitor which I may need anyway for modern games, but that gives me 3 monitors all with "partial purposes", light gun/most retro, 3D, and modern gaming + Collectorvision.

 

By the way, if one doesn’t care about collectability of CollectorVision games, and just wants to play them, what’s cheaper? Buying an Everdrive CV and downloading the games, or buying loose cartridges individually?

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If the output via HDMI has low lag already, and hy all accounts it is, tyrn there's realpy no point to have an analog out other than to satisfy purists. Which I can understand...and this is the only FPGA I can think of that would be great to have analogs outs as well as HDMI, for the reasons mentioned above with Ladybug.

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If the output via HDMI has low lag already, and hy all accounts it is, tyrn there's realpy no point to have an analog out other than to satisfy purists. Which I can understand...and this is the only FPGA I can think of that would be great to have analogs outs as well as HDMI, for the reasons mentioned above with Ladybug.

 

The main reason I want analog out is a purely practical reason. If I’m going to beat the speed-up level on Lady Bug, with the way it is currently, I have to buy a THIRD TV, in addition to a light gun TV and a 3D TV I already have. I’ll be playing musical monitors. The analog outputs do two things, allow for future Colectorvision CV light gun games, and use a cheap method of hooking up to a guaranteed low ping TV. I think my 33 mm is too much for Lady Bug, and that was good in 2012, but there’s no way to replace my 3D monitor with a Low-ping 3D monitor, even if I go on Ebay.

 

So the Composite and/or S-Video input can help me put off both the purchase and the day I’ll play musical monitors. But I will purchase a gaming Shutter-based 3CD Monitor, if they make such thing.

 

Or if they don’t an invention similar to Sega Scope 3D can add 3D to existing 2D TVs. The reason why that wasn’t pulled off yet was the problem withccompensating for ping ranging from 1 ms to 100 ms, and expecting a good 3D image on all tof them. Luckily since a light gun is turly a TIMING device in nature, and not a posiitonal device, it can be used to adjust the timing based on the TV to even more accurate than a microsecond, or 0.001 ms

 

And I insist on Shutter 3D. With Polar 3D, if you tilt your head more than 2 degrees, it will make a partial exposure,(Normally, it should be a total block of one of the 2 images), which causes a double image, which confuses your eyes, which causes most of the 3D nausea. My mom is a test case of 3D Nausea being almost nullified by Shutter based 3D at home vs Polar based 3D at theaters. She never took off her 3D glasses at home due to nausea. She requested to move to a 2D showing in the theater. The true test is if she can sit through the 3D version of a movie she loves in 2D, like either Frozen 3D, Tron Legacy 3D, or Incredibles 2 3D and be wowed and not nauseous.

 

Also the 2 biggest culprits of ping are the TV itself, and resolution change, no mater whether it’s uspscaling, downscaling, interlacing, or progressivizing, always cause delay. I have a theory that Press Your Luck for PS3 is natively 1080p, and trying to play in 480i analog adds ping as it has to both downscale and interlace. When why I can’t do m usually Press Your Luck strateguy of starring at the "always big bucks and a spin" square and pressing X the instant I see it. Ping time kills that strategy. I got the ultimate ping test. The only version I can use that strategy on was a Flash game version with a CRT monitor built into iMac. I got 150K and that is an epic feat worthy of game show history, plus Whammy was proud to say they randomized anything, so a Michael Larson pattern would no longer work, yet I was only in the top 100, so a few other people had the same strategy. By the way, #1 got a score of 10 million.

 

I agree game output sources ARE Zero Ping by nature, assuming you play at the default resolution. Some game may not be sophisticated enough to generate content at more than one level natively, or runs differently at 2 specific resolution and be low ping in both. if the Coleocvision is natively either 240p or 480i and the Phoenix is natively generated 1080p, 1) does it really improve the game without working off the 240p/480i master and not have ping to ruin it? and 2) even if Low Ping can be achieved with 1080p working off 240p/480i media, even with a 1 ms TV, why sabotage it when going BACK to 480i/240p. I don’t want a Composite/S-Video for their sakes. I want it because it is low ping.

Edited by tripletopper
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The main reason I want analog out is a purely practical reason. If I’m going to beat the speed-up level on Lady Bug, with the way it is currently, I have to buy a THIRD TV, in addition to a light gun TV and a 3D TV I already have. I’ll be playing musical monitors. The analog outputs do two things, allow for future Colectorvision CV light gun games, and use a cheap method of hooking up to a guaranteed low ping TV. I think my 33 mm is too much for Lady Bug, and that was good in 2012, but there’s no way to replace my 3D monitor with a Low-ping 3D monitor, even if I go on Ebay.

 

So the Composite and/or S-Video input can help me put off both the purchase and the day I’ll play musical monitors. But I will purchase a gaming Shutter-based 3CD Monitor, if they make such thing.

 

Or if they don’t an invention similar to Sega Scope 3D can add 3D to existing 2D TVs. The reason why that wasn’t pulled off yet was the problem withccompensating for ping ranging from 1 ms to 100 ms, and expecting a good 3D image on all tof them. Luckily since a light gun is turly a TIMING device in nature, and not a posiitonal device, it can be used to adjust the timing based on the TV to even more accurate than a microsecond, or 0.001 ms

 

And I insist on Shutter 3D. With Polar 3D, if you tilt your head more than 2 degrees, it will make a partial exposure,(Normally, it should be a total block of one of the 2 images), which causes a double image, which confuses your eyes, which causes most of the 3D nausea. My mom is a test case of 3D Nausea being almost nullified by Shutter based 3D at home vs Polar based 3D at theaters. She never took off her 3D glasses at home due to nausea. She requested to move to a 2D showing in the theater. The true test is if she can sit through the 3D version of a movie she loves in 2D, like either Frozen 3D, Tron Legacy 3D, or Incredibles 2 3D and be wowed and not nauseous.

 

Also the 2 biggest culprits of ping are the TV itself, and resolution change, no mater whether it’s uspscaling, downscaling, interlacing, or progressivizing, always cause delay. I have a theory that Press Your Luck for PS3 is natively 1080p, and trying to play in 480i analog adds ping as it has to both downscale and interlace. When why I can’t do m usually Press Your Luck strateguy of starring at the "always big bucks and a spin" square and pressing X the instant I see it. Ping time kills that strategy. I got the ultimate ping test. The only version I can use that strategy on was a Flash game version with a CRT monitor built into iMac. I got 150K and that is an epic feat worthy of game show history, plus Whammy was proud to say they randomized anything, so a Michael Larson pattern would no longer work, yet I was only in the top 100, so a few other people had the same strategy. By the way, #1 got a score of 10 million.

 

I agree game output sources ARE Zero Ping by nature, assuming you play at the default resolution. Some game may not be sophisticated enough to generate content at more than one level natively, or runs differently at 2 specific resolution and be low ping in both. if the Coleocvision is natively either 240p or 480i and the Phoenix is natively generated 1080p, 1) does it really improve the game without working off the 240p/480i master and not have ping to ruin it? and 2) even if Low Ping can be achieved with 1080p working off 240p/480i media, even with a 1 ms TV, why sabotage it when going BACK to 480i/240p. I don’t want a Composite/S-Video for their sakes. I want it because it is low ping.

 

What the hell is wrong with you?

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I though, analog outputs would be practical, because you can guarantee a low ping output without having to buy a specialized gaming monitor. Add that to the fact that I already have a CRT TV and a 3D TV, neither of which is easily replaceable, then the Composite option would be welcome on the Phoenix. I just plug into my CRT TV.

 

If the Composite adapter adds ping because the phoenix natively displays in 1080p, then the resolution change kills the exact reason why would want a CRT TV adapter. It’s not because I like lugging heavy TVs. It’s not necessarily because I like the additive effect over the subtractive effect, It’s because they are so low ping, light gun games work. And most HDMI TVs have about 33 ms ping and some even more.

 

If someone can find me a modern gaming monitor with 4 ms or less ping, understands everything from 240p and 480i up to 2160p with a frame rate that can understand 24 fps x 2 eye programs natively, and has shutter scope 3D, then I can replace my Playstation 3D TV with a low ping 3D monitor that can play all my old games. Otherwise I’d have to rotate between 3 monitors. Heck, if it accepts analog inputs, then I can literally use my CRT ONLY for Light Gun games if it’s low ping enough.

 

And that is subject to a good retro light gun adapter which uses a visible light photography system as opposed to a Wiimote system. There is a retro console gun, it just uses the Wiimote method, which is WAY less accurate than light-and-timing based guns. There is a "visible light camera gun", the problem with that is it requires a computer for it to work. It doesn’t work off of retro consoles.

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Wait! Colecovision has light gun games?

 

Or will Phoenix support light gun games?

It's very complicated, there is monitor ping and 3D shutters and tilting your head 2 degrees ruins the ping lag monitor refresh controller rate. I have 2 DVD players and you can guarantee low analog ping on the optical discs due to the rotation of the laser combined with the pixel outputs and a few extra megabits. However when it comes to Ladybug, you have to take in account the RF interference and I have multiple TVs and 16 Saturn controllers so to get the lowest ping I need to use a Nextel phone to play online. I am considering ordering dinner via GrubHub, but their ping rate is too high so I need to use an analog delivery system. Also I need no whammies, no whammies, stop double Jeopardy on my Atari to play the lowest ping games. In conclusion, the best test is watching Wreck-It Ralph and seeing if you can find the ping pixels via HDMI over analog converting MHz into s-video via an upscaler that downscales into magnetic properties for isolation.

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If the output via HDMI has low lag already, and hy all accounts it is, tyrn there's realpy no point to have an analog out other than to satisfy purists. Which I can understand...and this is the only FPGA I can think of that would be great to have analogs outs as well as HDMI, for the reasons mentioned above with Ladybug.

The system will ship as HDMI only, but we are planning on having an analog video output module available at a later date.

 

How will the system generate the analog out? Will it be a conversion from the HDMI out? Or will the FPGA generate an analog signal in the exact way the original console does?

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It's very complicated, there is monitor ping and 3D shutters and tilting your head 2 degrees ruins the ping lag monitor refresh controller rate. I have 2 DVD players and you can guarantee low analog ping on the optical discs due to the rotation of the laser combined with the pixel outputs and a few extra megabits. However when it comes to Ladybug, you have to take in account the RF interference and I have multiple TVs and 16 Saturn controllers so to get the lowest ping I need to use a Nextel phone to play online. I am considering ordering dinner via GrubHub, but their ping rate is too high so I need to use an analog delivery system. Also I need no whammies, no whammies, stop double Jeopardy on my Atari to play the lowest ping games. In conclusion, the best test is watching Wreck-It Ralph and seeing if you can find the ping pixels via HDMI over analog converting MHz into s-video via an upscaler that downscales into magnetic properties for isolation.

ROTFL ... who's Whammy?

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I though, analog outputs would be practical, because you can guarantee a low ping output without having to buy a specialized gaming monitor. Add that to the fact that I already have a CRT TV and a 3D TV, neither of which is easily replaceable, then the Composite option would be welcome on the Phoenix. I just plug into my CRT TV.

 

If the Composite adapter adds ping because the phoenix natively displays in 1080p, then the resolution change kills the exact reason why would want a CRT TV adapter. It’s not because I like lugging heavy TVs. It’s not necessarily because I like the additive effect over the subtractive effect, It’s because they are so low ping, light gun games work. And most HDMI TVs have about 33 ms ping and some even more.

 

If someone can find me a modern gaming monitor with 4 ms or less ping, understands everything from 240p and 480i up to 2160p with a frame rate that can understand 24 fps x 2 eye programs natively, and has shutter scope 3D, then I can replace my Playstation 3D TV with a low ping 3D monitor that can play all my old games. Otherwise I’d have to rotate between 3 monitors. Heck, if it accepts analog inputs, then I can literally use my CRT ONLY for Light Gun games if it’s low ping enough.

 

And that is subject to a good retro light gun adapter which uses a visible light photography system as opposed to a Wiimote system. There is a retro console gun, it just uses the Wiimote method, which is WAY less accurate than light-and-timing based guns. There is a "visible light camera gun", the problem with that is it requires a computer for it to work. It doesn’t work off of retro consoles.

 

Honest question here... have you ever played a game for fun, or is it only about beating it with a perfect score? Games are supposed to be enjoyed, not obsessed over.

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It's very complicated, there is monitor ping and 3D shutters and tilting your head 2 degrees ruins the ping lag monitor refresh controller rate.

 

And it's very complicated to understand that. It's how the HD TV set works?

 

Maybe a link would be better.

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