Lack of microcomputer cores in Retroarch

[youxia]

I made a remark on this subject in the Status updates but these things move fast so I thought I'd try again here.

 

Basically I got a desktop PC again but it's for work and most of my gaming is on Raspberry. I did fire up Retroarch recently just for kicks but then I was impressed by the shaders and had a closer look. Turns out that while most platforms are covered there are serious gaps such as Apple II or proper Amiga (the one included is poorly documented and requires some esoteric steps). There's also a few of the less popular machines such as TRS, Oric, TI-99 or BBC missing.

 

So, I wonder what's the reason for that? None of the explanations proposed in the SU seem feasible to me: there are already cores which use keyboards and obviously it's not about performance since Retroarch does support demanding cores such as Dreamcast, latest MAME or N64. Is it all about popularity and total Nintendo/consoles dominance of the retro scene then? Even so, people added these other platforms to RetroPie which is perhaps less or equally popular as RA...

[mr_me]

Retroarch has direct cores for atari st, ms-dos, msx, zx spectrum, nec pc-fx/98, amstrad, thomson. If it supports the latest Mame than it has support for lots of different classic computers.

 

But you're right. If you want to emulate old computers it's probably best not to use libretro/retroarch. And that's probably the reason; it's not needed. People are volunteering their time to implement libretro cores, so they have to choose projects that are worthwhile to them.

[youxia]

What does it mean, "not needed"? Are they "needed' in Retropie, which covers nearly everything and is similarly a volunteer project? The point is that Retroarch is trying to be a universal platform, not just 50 shades of Nintendo and friends.There is no reason why old computers shouldn't be included and indeed a lot of them are.

 

I'd like to use it is because of extensive shader support, unavailable in most individual emus, and convenience of using one frontend for everything, instead of having countless dedicated setups.

 

You have a good point about MAME though, I did completely forget that they are MESS now. Still, I haven't touched it for more than a decade and am a bit scared.

[Osgeld]

Its open source, quit complaining and go ahead and take care of it

 

Otherwise you get what you pay for

[youxia]

I actually had a secret bet with myself on how long will it take before somebody pops in with this DIY trope. Much shorter than I expected.

 

Thanks for, ahem, contributing. And missing the point by a country mile too.

[Osgeld]

I'm not missing the point thousands of man hours have gone into handing the emulation world to you in a tidy package just for someone to fuss about what Amiga emulator was chosen

[mr_me]

What does it mean, "not needed"? Are they "needed' in Retropie, which covers nearly everything and is similarly a volunteer project? The point is that Retroarch is trying to be a universal platform, not just 50 shades of Nintendo and friends.There is no reason why old computers shouldn't be included and indeed a lot of them are.

 

I'd like to use it is because of extensive shader support, unavailable in most individual emus, and convenience of using one frontend for everything, instead of having countless dedicated setups.

 

You have a good point about MAME though, I did completely forget that they are MESS now. Still, I haven't touched it for more than a decade and am a bit scared.

Retropie doesn't have cores, it's a collection of existing emulators. With Retroarch/Libretto an emulator has to be ported to the retroarch/libretro system. So if a high quality emulator already exists, porting it to retroarch/libretro is not necessary to use it. There's other front-ends that you can use. Retroarch/libretro does have some unique features. Unfortunately they don't always get implemented for every core e.g. netplay. Also the controller abstraction layer can be limiting for some systems. Edited May 8, 2019 by mr_me

[Flojomojo]

I'm with Osgeld here. One can run other emulators on a Pi but RetroPie (a nice skin for RetroArch, right?) is geared around simple game controller inputs, or an arcade cabinet.

 

I would load up a microSD with vanilla Rasbian or the desktop environment and run the computer emulators there.

 

Like described here

http://ivanx.com/raspberrypi/raspberrypi_emulators.html

 

With all the free, open-source options for software on the Pi, it seems ungenerous to complain about what might be missing.

[Keatah]

All it takes is a skilled developer with interest in a platform.

[youxia]

Sorry, but going down this whining/ungenerous route here is ridiculous. Read the OP please. I'm actually praising Retroarch (if it's not clear enough: it's AWESOME and I've been using it for years on RPi, now appreciate the shaders on PC, and usually defend it when people bitch about how terribly complex and unfriendly it is).

 

Sure, it is disappointing that some of the important platforms are missing. Yet still, I'm not demanding for them to be implemented, merely being curious why this is the case. And hoping we could talk about it like adults, not bunch of teens jumping on a poor excuse to start a condescending/pointless argument.

 

To further reiterate: this is about Retroarch on PC, not RetroPie. I brought up RetroPie in comparison, to point out that it actually has all these platforms. RetroPie also is not at all just oriented toward arcades or has limited controls schemes, to the contrary.

 

 

Retropie doesn't have cores, it's a collection of existing emulators. With Retroarch/Libretto an emulator has to be ported to the retroarch/libretro system. So if a high quality emulator already exists, porting it to retroarch/libretro is not necessary to use it. There's other front-ends that you can use. Retroarch/libretro does have some unique features. Unfortunately they don't always get implemented for every core e.g. netplay. Also the controller abstraction layer can be limiting for some systems.

 

Retropie uses Retroarch for a bulk of its emus and in Retroarch emulators are called cores, so... There are other standalone emus in RetroPie, true, but people often port them to the lr- side anyway, because of the added features the libretro environ/retroarch gui offers. Again, the controls for even the problematic platforms have been mostly ironed out over the years. But now we're talking about RPi again, not sure why...

 

I have no need to use other front ends or individual emus because Retroarch is the only one to offer extensive shader support in unified package. Again, it's not even about that, more about being curious why there are gaps in such important platforms given how popular and distributed Retroarch is and given how many different and varied cores its console side has in comparison. If anybody's interested in discussing that then you're welcome, otherwise feel free to ride your high horse and tell me more about entitlement, whining etc - it'll be ignored though.

[zzip]

I actually had a secret bet with myself on how long will it take before somebody pops in with this DIY trope. Much shorter than I expected.

 

Thanks for, ahem, contributing. And missing the point by a country mile too.

It's true though, for emulators to come to fruition, you need a large enough, dedicated enough and technical enough fanbase of the platform to pull it off. Most missing platforms are

lacking in at least one of these areas

[Flojomojo]

If anybody's interested in discussing that then you're welcome, otherwise feel free to ride your high horse and tell me more about entitlement, whining etc - it'll be ignored though.

 

They have forums, Discord, and Twitter. You can ask them directly. https://www.libretro.com

 

When you said

Basically I got a desktop PC again but it's for work and most of my gaming is on Raspberry. I did fire up Retroarch recently just for kicks but then I was impressed by the shaders and had a closer look.

I did not understand that you were taking issue with the app that was running on your desktop PC until you clarified later.

 

This is whiny AF, own it.

What does it mean, "not needed"? Are they "needed' in Retropie, which covers nearly everything and is similarly a volunteer project? The point is that Retroarch is trying to be a universal platform, not just 50 shades of Nintendo and friends.There is no reason why old computers shouldn't be included and indeed a lot of them are.

I'd like to use it is because of extensive shader support, unavailable in most individual emus, and convenience of using one frontend for everything, instead of having countless dedicated setups.

 

I actually had a secret bet with myself on how long will it take before somebody pops in with this DIY trope. Much shorter than I expected.

Thanks for, ahem, contributing. And missing the point by a country mile too.

 

That's not discussion, that's just insulting. If you want to communicate with people, you have to meet them at least half way. No one is capable of or interested in reading your mind. Your unclear communication does not mean others are on a high horse. Frustration with poor communication works both ways. Thanks for, ahem, your apology.

 

The PC cores have not been implemented in RetroArch because no one has gotten to it at this time, what more is there to discuss as an end user? https://forums.libretro.com/search?q=pc%20cores

[Flojomojo]

P.S. Sorry to be so pissy about it.

[youxia]

It's true though, for emulators to come to fruition, you need a large enough, dedicated enough and technical enough fanbase of the platform to pull it off. Most missing platforms are

lacking in at least one of these areas

 

This is the thing which puzzles me, because Retroarch is big and is everywhere. It's probably "bigger" than Retropie, and Retropie has these things covered (several Amiga emulators - one dedicated -, Apple, and multum of obscure platforms). I thought one reason could be because Retropie devs are from Europe and it's generally more popular there - but I don't think it really is the case. Plus for example, while Amiga wasn't so popular in the US, Apple definitely was.

 

 

That's not discussion, that's just insulting. If you want to communicate with people, you have to meet them at least half way. No one is capable of or interested in reading your mind. Your unclear communication does not mean others are on a high horse. Frustration with poor communication works both ways. Thanks for, ahem, your apology.

 

The PC cores have not been implemented in RetroArch because no one has gotten to it at this time, what more is there to discuss as an end user? https://forums.libretro.com/search?q=pc%20cores

 

 

There was no - and won't be any - apologies for responses to intentionally thread-shitting posts, most likely made because the author is incapable of letting go of a grudge from some other thread. I'm no saint and can give as good as I get.

 

If my initial post is in any way unclear then it's possible to either avoid it or ask for clarification, instead of launching a slew of condescending and immature replies, then being surprised when I respond in kind. Telling me to go and discuss it elsewhere* (ok, but let's also delete half of other OPs on this forum while we are a at it) or posting a completely irrelevant (did somebody ask about PC Engine core?) link kinda qualifies here too.

 

*by the way, I did that already some time ago. One of the devs mentioned that more people registering interest could help - obviously. Well, I tried

[Osgeld]

There was no - and won't be any - apologies for responses to intentionally thread-shitting posts

 

its hard to thread shit when the Original Post was a whine about free software

 

its very simple ... why isnt XYZ better, well sir you have all the same resources as everyone else, if it were easy anyone would do it .. I never said DIY, I said contribute and you have displayed nothing but attitude since

 

why isnt XYZ better, cause its hard, and the interest is low, sorry you can't be bothered to install applewin and god help your precious finger from clicking a second icon on the desktop

[tschak909]

It's free software.

 

Free software literally lives and dies by its contributions. FULL FUCKING STOP.

 

If you don't do it, you have to wait for someone else to do it, and being passive-aggressive in an attempt to guilt someone into doing it basically shows that you're acting like a douchebag.

 

-THom

[mr_me]

 

This is the thing which puzzles me, because Retroarch is big and is everywhere. It's probably "bigger" than Retropie, and Retropie has these things covered (several Amiga emulators - one dedicated -, Apple, and multum of obscure platforms). I thought one reason could be because Retropie devs are from Europe and it's generally more popular there - but I don't think it really is the case. Plus for example, while Amiga wasn't so popular in the US, Apple definitely was.

 

...

Retropie is nothing more than a collection of emulators on a Linux platform. Linux is a far more popular platform than retroarch/libretro.

[zzip]

This is the thing which puzzles me, because Retroarch is big and is everywhere. It's probably "bigger" than Retropie, and Retropie has these things covered (several Amiga emulators - one dedicated -, Apple, and multum of obscure platforms). I thought one reason could be because Retropie devs are from Europe and it's generally more popular there - but I don't think it really is the case. Plus for example, while Amiga wasn't so popular in the US, Apple definitely was.

Retropie has several forks of the same Amiga emulator - UAE. UAE has been in development since the mid-90s and is probably the only decent Amiga emulator in existance

 

The Apple II emulator scene is just dismal. Lots of half finished projects, I haven't found a good polished one yet. I had to hack up a IIgs emulator myself to give it the features I needed, and I'm not really an emulator coder. My suspicion was the Apples were just too expensive for many of the 80s hacker kids to own. Those 80s hacker kids are the ones who created the emulation project explosion in the 90s emulating their favorite systems.