MIST vs MISTER?

[eightbit]

Revisiting this topic after over a year to see where we stand with pricing. Recently I had thought of building a new MiSTer primarily for Amiga. The price is NOT cheap anymore. The pandemic has apparently caused some issues. Looking at Digikey when I last placed by order of the DE-10 Nano board it was $136. Now the unit price for the same board is $208....and none in stock right now to boot.

 

Building up a decent MiSTer is no longer cheap. As a matter of fact in order to build one up to at least what is included with the original MiST (which is still available) can cost quite a penny more than the original MiST does.

 

Of course the MiSTer is capable of much more, but as it stands now if you wanted to build one up it is going to cost some money. The same unit that ran me around $450 to build in 2019 would now cost $600 or more. That being the DE-10 with 128MB, proper USB hub board, case, etc etc.

 

All of that said, I went and ordered an original MiST from Lotharek since my goal is playing some Amiga stuff again. That ran me about $260 with shipping.

 

Funny how the pandemic has turned the tides of cost from one to another.

Edited January 10, 2022 by eightbit

[tuf]

19 minutes ago, eightbit said:

Funny how the pandemic has turned the tides of cost from one to another.

 

Yep - my cars are all worth more now than when I bought them.  Crazy times.

[youxia]

4 hours ago, eightbit said:

Of course the MiSTer is capable of much more, but as it stands now if you wanted to build one up it is going to cost some money. The same unit that ran me around $450 to build in 2019 would now cost $600 or more. That being the DE-10 with 128MB, proper USB hub board, case, etc etc.

 

All of that said, I went and ordered an original MiST from Lotharek since my goal is playing some Amiga stuff again. That ran me about $260 with shipping.

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. You can have a fully functional MiSTer for about ~250 USD (DE10+32MB SDRAM). This will run ~98% of available stuff, barring few big arcade games. All the other bits and pieces are unnecessary for normal operation. And even the fully stacked unit won't cost 600 USD, probably still possible to do it for less than 500.

[+5-11under]

2 hours ago, youxia said:

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. You can have a fully functional MiSTer for about ~250 USD (DE10+32MB SDRAM). This will run ~98% of available stuff, barring few big arcade games. All the other bits and pieces are unnecessary for normal operation. And even the fully stacked unit won't cost 600 USD, probably still possible to do it for less than 500.

That's what I've got. I threw in a cheap USB hub (OTG), and an aluminum case I already had, and it works great. After that, a cheap USB controller of your favorite flavor will get you going.

[eightbit]

4 hours ago, youxia said:

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. You can have a fully functional MiSTer for about ~250 USD (DE10+32MB SDRAM). This will run ~98% of available stuff, barring few big arcade games. All the other bits and pieces are unnecessary for normal operation. And even the fully stacked unit won't cost 600 USD, probably still possible to do it for less than 500.

 

I said the same unit that RAN ME around $450 to build now costs $600 or more. I am not referring to a bare bones gimped MiSTer with no daughter boards and 32MB of SDRAM. I am talking about a nice complete setup using quality parts (not from Aliexpress) and the nice metal case. 

 

I realize all of that is not necessary, but I wasn't referring to what was necessary or not to use a MiSTer. I was more referring to what it would take nowadays to build one up like I did a few years ago using all of the best stuff.

 

But, if you are talking about just the bare minimum to use it, yeah...I guess maybe you can get away with having a DE10-NANO board laying there with a 32MB SDRAM module...and some cheap hub hanging out of it. Not really appealing to me, but I guess that would do.

 

The benefit of the MiST (if your intention is to use specific cores it has available which is mine...Amiga specifically) is that for the same price as above you get it already in a nice metal case, four full sized USB ports, two 9-pin ports for vintage controllers, two MIDI ports, buttons for reset and menu, 32MB integrated, etc. It's a more retail package for the same price (now) as just a DE10-NANO board, 32MB of ram and a cheap hub.

 

Now, two years ago that was not the case when the DE-10 was $120-$130. But those prices are up 80% or more now...while the original MiST price remains the same because those are already manufactured and have been sitting in Lotharek's inventory.

 

Looking at what it would run me now to build MY old decked out MiSTer setup (again, as you say it is not necessary but what I consider the complete setup):

 

DE10-Nano - $208

I/O Board - $55

128MB SDRAM - $55

Metal case - $50

USB hub board - $50

Noctua fan - $14

Heavy duty mean well PSU (5A) - $25

Mister SNAC board - $34

Various SNAC controller adapters - $50

RTC board - $20

 

$561 total

$33.66 NJ sales tax

 

$594.66 total (not including shipping costs for anything)

 

 

 

I build up this same setup two years ago and it ran me around $450 total with tax and shipping. A lot more now if I wanted to do it again. A lot of that cost now is that increase on that DE10-NANO board. 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by eightbit

[youxia]

17 minutes ago, eightbit said:

bare bones gimped MiSTer...cheap hub...bare minimum...get away with

This is the kind of condescending nonsense people repeat all around the web and create completely unrealistic image of what the real cost and use of this thing is. This is really off putting for newcomers, and the reason I objected to your calculation. There's absolutely nothing "gimped" about the basic setup I mentioned, because most people will never utilise the additional functions, and other stuff like reset or analogue video is available anyway. The OTG hub is way cheaper than official board yet works exactly the same, metal case from Ali can be as "nice" as the one from an "official" seller, 128MB RAM will make zilch difference for your Amiga use (plus most everything else) and so on and on. The only price that really went up is DE10 itself, the rest is pretty much as it was before. And then there's the fact that MiST doesn't offer HDMI, and that's what most people really are after (and not MIDI).

 

That's not to say MiST is a bad setup itself but, tbh, now that there are way cheaper options such as SiDi, which are pretty much 100% compatible with its cores it does look a little bit long in the tooth.

 

 

[eightbit]

25 minutes ago, youxia said:

This is the kind of condescending nonsense people repeat all around the web and create completely unrealistic image of what the real cost and use of this thing is.

 

 

If my post was read correctly there would be no confusion. Nowhere did I say that the cost I was quoting would be for what you needed at bare minimum setup just to run some stuff. As a matter of fact, I am not sure where you got out of my post that I was even remotely referring to "what it costs you just to get it running". I think I was pretty clear that I was referring to what it costs now vs then for someone to build a complete deluxe setup as I had years ago.

 

As for a DE10-Nano board only with a 32MB SDRAM module and a cheap hub hanging out...I'll stand by my words that that is a gimped setup  I don't even know why someone wouldn't drop the extra $20 and get the 128MB module and at least get 100% (for now) software compatibility. I mean, you are already in for $250 for it as it stands, and you don't have a proper case.

 

I guess when I am referring to "gimped" I am mostly referring to its presentation of course. A lone board with a 32GB ram module and a OTG hub laying out there for $250 just personally makes me cringe. But, if you are just looking to "get it going", yeah, that would be correct....you can do it for $250 or so.

 

As for HDMI being what most people are after...maybe or maybe not. I find the inclusion of the MIDI ports on the MiST very cool (and useful) and something that is currently not offered on any other device of this type (afaik).

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by eightbit

[+5-11under]

5 hours ago, youxia said:

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. You can have a fully functional MiSTer for about ~250 USD (DE10+32MB SDRAM). This will run ~98% of available stuff, barring few big arcade games.

I wish more of the suppliers would provide this simpler set-up, with OTG hub and a decent case, ready to go. Of the YouTube videos I've seen, 90%+ of the set-ups I see are full-blown expensive set-ups, where many people could easily get away with the simpler/cheaper version.

[eightbit]

46 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

I wish more of the suppliers would provide this simpler set-up, with OTG hub and a decent case, ready to go. Of the YouTube videos I've seen, 90%+ of the set-ups I see are full-blown expensive set-ups, where many people could easily get away with the simpler/cheaper version.

 

I don't think that would be too hard to be honest. The hardest part really only being the increased price of the DE10-NANO now. If it had still been $120 as it used to be, I could see a nice cased 32MB version with a hub sell for $300 (and still leave a decent profit for the supplier). If the DE10-NANO comes down in price it can be done. But, from everything I have been hearing Terasic has no plans to reduce the price. 

 

Although the SiDi device was not the subject of this thread, the SiDi youxia mentioned in the previous post is probably the best deal monetarily at the moment for an FPGA device of this type...if you can find one. I would imagine again that the lack of stock is due to supply constraints so I doubt we will see that back in stock for the $110 this was selling for when it was available. But, the thing that really turned me off regarding this product was the fact that there was no source, etc. It just seemed like it just stole the efforts of others...that I do not like.

 

Sure the original MiST is an older device and certainly not as capable as the MiSTer (although it is still pretty capable) but I find it funny how while two years ago it was not such a great deal in comparison...it kind of is now when you look at the inclusions for the price vs what you get for a "bare bones" MiSTer.

 

For around $250 you can get the DE10 Nano, a 32MB SDRAM module, a cheap OTG USB hub...and not much else. For the same amount you can get a MiST that is in a metal case, includes four USB's, two midi's, two legacy joystick ports. A complete nice looking box. It really all depends on what you are getting the device for. If for Amiga or ST (and some consoles excluding Neo-Geo) its a pretty good buy now all things considered regarding the features included. It outputs VGA (as previously mentioned) so that is something to consider if that is an issue for you as well.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by eightbit

[mimo]

I ordered a de10 nano from mouser on 31st October last year. I placed a pre order at $138 , was supposed to be shipped in November as it was going to be a Xmas present. Then shipping end of December, so it was going to become a birthday present. Shipping has been delayed until end January now, so it's probably going to be a nice Easter present 

[eightbit]

6 hours ago, mimo said:

I ordered a de10 nano from mouser on 31st October last year. I placed a pre order at $138 , was supposed to be shipped in November as it was going to be a Xmas present. Then shipping end of December, so it was going to become a birthday present. Shipping has been delayed until end January now, so it's probably going to be a nice Easter present 

 

It's really great you got that order locked in that at price. Even direct from Terasic it is now $208 (for non-EDU individuals). The price really skyrocketed for this board. Had I predicted the future I would have ordered two from DigiKey when I placed my order at $120!

[mimo]

9 hours ago, eightbit said:

 

It's really great you got that order locked in that at price. Even direct from Terasic it is now $208 (for non-EDU individuals). The price really skyrocketed for this board. Had I predicted the future I would have ordered two from DigiKey when I placed my order at $120!

I just hope that they honor the order, hopefully they do because I have wanted one of these for a couple of years. Was a big surprise when my wife told me I should buy one for xmas. THe price had always put me off a bit, and the new prices would certainly be a no go for me 

[eightbit]

Received my MiST v1.4 from Lotharek today. I used to own one of these boxes many moons ago. Wow, cores got so much more advanced. 

 

TG16, SNES, Genesis, A800, 2600, Ti994A, SMS, Amiga (of course) Atari ST, Vic-20 and C64 were tested and I can't find any compatibility issues. Amiga AGA is incredibly awesome. 

 

Still, it is of course the MiSTer can do more (Neo-Geo comes to mind) but for what it can do it is truly astounding. Amazing work on all of these cores. I think if you do not own an FPGA device you will be super happy with either. 

 

I'll need to try all of these arcade cores next. I will give it to the MiSTer for the fact that there is a tool that connects to the net and pulls everything down for you. With the MiST, you are manually downloading the cores and setting up the folders yourself. A completely offline DIY experience. But, somehow I find that a bit more interesting. I like setting things up on my own and figuring out how to make it work.

Edited January 23, 2022 by eightbit

[eightbit]

To follow up on this after using the MiST for a couple of weeks now....it is excellent. So much so that I ordered a second one. There's really not much missed between it and the MiSTer to be honest. I can deal without Neo-Geo and CPS2 stuff, which is really all I can see that I am really missing. Oh, and the Sega Genesis core does not support ISO images. 

 

But, the rest is great. The TG16 core does support ISO images, all of the other cores are exactly the same as the MiSTer of course. 

 

The price shipped using paypal is $268. For that you get a nice metal boxed computer with four USB ports, two legacy 9-pin joystick ports, MIDI in and out (which I am dying to try with a Roland MT-32 should I find one!) and LED "knight rider" effects to boot

 

Its the best FPGA deal on the market now for an all in one solution in which you just plug it in and go. Certainly recommended...while they last in this day and age of shortages.

[eightbit]

Ahh, finally scored a MIDI synth! So difficult to obtain these in the States....this one came from Canada for $60 plus $22 shipping...which I think is a mighty good deal if I do say so myself!

 

Using the MiST with the Next186 core, DOSMID and DOS Navigator and I made myself a damn excellent MIDI jukebox. Of course games with MIDI work too, but I really wanted to pump MIDI tunes through this excellent vintage hardware and see what I had missed all of those years ago.

 

I am loving it. The inclusion of those MIDI ports on the MiST and the inclusion of the audio in mixing abilities of the Roland SC-50 synth made this a plug and play snap to get going. 

 

How did I ever live without this? The awesome incredible sound, buttons, big orange screen. Well, I'll tell you back in the day I had no choice as this little sucker was round about $795 in 1994...with inflation that is $1508 today! I wasn't making that much working at the movie theatre back then...that's for sure!

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by eightbit