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I just recently became aware of this newer device. A more powerful system, supposedly. Does anyone here have one yet? Any thoughts of advantages of one over the other? I can think of one -- MIST can be purchased off-the-shelf, while MISTER may need DIY daughter boards, (which I don't really understand.) I've watched Nir's nice video on the MISTER, but still leaves questions about the boards.

 

I did find this thread here:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/260994-mist-experience-with-atari-8-bit/?hl=+mister

 

-Larry

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MiSTer is much more powerful than MIST. It has a much bigger FPGA and a much more powerful processor. MiSTer requires a couple of add-on boards. The reason is that MiSTer leverages a mass produced board targeted for education purposes and subsidized by the FPGA manufacturer. That is why you can get much more powerful hardware at such a low cost in the first place. The add-on boards are designed as DIY, but there are a few sellers that sell them at reasonable cost. It is very simple to install them, no soldering required. But you can buy the whole thing already assembled if you want. The add-on boards are not strictly mandatory, but you really want at least the SDRAM board.

 

With more powerful hardware MiSTer can run cores and emulate systems that would be impossible on the original MiST. MiSTer has an HDMI video interface while MiST uses a legacy analog VGA output. MiSTer runs full Linux. It can use bluetooth periperhals and can be easily networked among other things. But the bottom line depends on which cores you want to run.

Edited by ijor
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I have one and enjoy it. Keeping up with all the different cores (arcade machine / computers / game consoles) can be a weekly task if you want to keep everything updated to bleeding edge.

 

There are scripts available to help automate downloaded updates. I have the SDRAM and I/O board with fan installed on my DE-10 and a small heat sink on the FPGA. I currently have it living in a generic 3D printed enclosure.

 

Definitely more of a DIY build, you also need a mini-usb hub as the DE-10 nano only has the one mini usb port. Most users want to add a mouse, keyboard and game pad. Some are now using usb bluetooth and wifi dongles as well.

 

It's a very active project. The main developer along with contributors stay busy. :)

 

 

Edit: The add-on boards are being sold by various individuals with the know-how and skills to make them up. There is a seller thread on atari-forum dedicated to the add-ons.

Edited by RodLightning
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Thanks for he informative replies and links! I know a lot more than a couple of days ago!

 

Where did you guys purchase your de-10 main board? Assembled?

 

Can anyone confirm that the "kit" on Amazon is assembled? Looking at it, it is difficult to imagine it would require actual assembly and soldering.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B89YHSB?pf_rd_p=76bd99fd-409f-46a4-9ff6-b66b5703e95b&pf_rd_r=N9B44VEBHGH4AV393K15

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From the pictures on that Amazon listing, I thought for a minute they were including a smaller GPIO board with it, but I think those are just examples.

 

Yes, that's the correct board. It works out of the box, similar to a raspberry pi in that respect. Digikey also sells them: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/terasic-inc/P0496/P0496-ND/6817231

 

To make it run MiSTer, you would need to go here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel

 

There is a sd card formatter to create a bootable MiSTer setup. You can use the 8gb card that comes with the DE-10, or use a larger card (I have a 64gb sandisk in mine).

 

The wiki with all the other info is here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

 

Copying the cores over is easy enough, making the arcade ROMs (not included) is a little more difficult, but instructions are there.

 

You can use MAME ROMs or everdrive sets for the various cores. There is a learning curve there, but not terribly difficult. Info is all online, albeit a bit scattered sometimes in forum threads.

 

Some of the cores use the built-in DDR3 sdram in the DE-10 nano, others need the slower SDRAM board to properly implement older hardware such as the classic computers.

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Where did you guys purchase your de-10 main board? Assembled?

Can anyone confirm that the "kit" on Amazon is assembled? Looking at it, it is difficult to imagine it would require actual assembly and soldering.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B89YHSB?pf_rd_p=76bd99fd-409f-46a4-9ff6-b66b5703e95b&pf_rd_r=N9B44VEBHGH4AV393K15

 

That's the bare Terasic DE-10 Nano board as sold by the official Terasic store at Amazon. It doesn't require any assembling in itself, but it doesn't include any of the specific MiSTer stuff either. For most cores you need at least the SDRAM board. That is sold separately if you don't want to build it yourself. You can start just with the Terasic board alone because some cores don't require any of the optional boards. All you need in such a case is a right image on the SD card as already mentioned.

 

If you want to purchase any specific MiSTer stuff see this thread at Atari-forum: http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=33613&sid=d28b5e392ec91cfb2f2c06cca0a50b7c

 

Edit: If you qualify for an educational purchase you can get it directly at Terasic at an even lower price: https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&No=1046

Edited by ijor
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I have both, but typically use the MiST over the MiSTer.

 

While the MiSTer is undoubtedly more powerful with more long term potential, it's also quite a bit more work to get up and running. The MiST is much more straightforward; complete out of the box. All you need to do is provide an SD card with the appropriate cores and images.

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Thanks for all the added information! I certainly understand the potential future benefits of the MISTer, but it strikes me that for running an 8-bit computer (or even Amiga or ST), the MIST has shown to be very adequate. That makes the out-of-the-box MIST solution from Lotharek certainly looks inviting. Maybe the MISTer will be better with a bit more development of the cores?

 

Anyway, I'm going to follow the MISTer development, and if folks here know of any major changes, it would be great if they would post the info.

 

-Larry

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MiSTer is really nice, lots of active development on the base system, as well as the various cores.

There are also periodic updates and new addon boards, the schematics are open source, so anyone with the needed skill can build boards.

 

I've been building addon boards for almost a year now, you can find out more at the atari-forum thread, or visit my website at www.legacypixels.com/mister

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On 5/18/2019 at 3:09 PM, ijor said:

MiSTer is much more powerful than MIST. It has a much bigger FPGA and a much more powerful processor. MiSTer requires a couple of add-on boards. The reason is that MiSTer leverages a mass produced board targeted for education purposes and subsidized by the FPGA manufacturer. That is why you can get much more powerful hardware at such a low cost in the first place. The add-on boards are designed as DIY, but there are a few sellers that sell them at reasonable cost. It is very simple to install them, no soldering required. But you can buy the whole thing already assembled if you want. The add-on boards are not strictly mandatory, but you really want at least the SDRAM board.

 

With more powerful hardware MiSTer can run cores and emulate systems that would be impossible on the original MiST. MiSTer has an HDMI video interface while MiST uses a legacy analog VGA output. MiSTer runs full Linux. It can use bluetooth periperhals and can be easily networked among other things. But the bottom line depends on which cores you want to run.

MIST vs MISTer is the question i ask for, before i buy me one of those. Is MISTer really more powerful then the actual Version MIST 1.4 PLUS? That machine offers midi ports for Atari ST.

 

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=45

 

https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

Edited by Sid1968

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On 2/9/2020 at 7:03 AM, Sid1968 said:

MIST vs MISTer is the question i ask for, before i buy me one of those. Is MISTer really more powerful then the actual Version MIST 1.4 PLUS? That machine offers midi ports for Atari ST.

 

All MIST versions are basically the same hardware, with or without MIDI ports already populated. So yes, MiSTer is (still) more powerful. MiSTer, for example, can play MIDI through software emulation because the CPU is much more powerful. Again, this is just an example.

 

However, MiSTer doesn't currently have a true MIDI hardware port.

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The MIST is very easy to buy, but i dont found a shop in Germany or EU to buy the MISTer... that sucks....

Edited by Sid1968

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2 hours ago, Sid1968 said:

The MIST is very easy to buy, but i dont found a shop in Germany or EU to buy the MISTer... that sucks....

Because MIST is a commercial product and MISTer is a kind of hobby project based on the FPGA development board.

Unless you are a 200% nerd 😉 you should rather be very happy with the MIST from @lotharek

With MISTer you will end up with spending much more money, having plenty addon boards and a lot of problems to make it all work.

Edited by TheMontezuma

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I own a MISTer, and can confirm that there is a lot of DIY to it, there are a few places that will sell you fully assembled and software built out, but they charge a pretty excessive premium. It's specifically an issue finding the right SDRAM and a good case arrangement (that supports USB for instance) for the MISTer right now, and you know that lotharek's is all in one, tested and good to go. So there is a chance on the MISTer side that you'll waste money or time trying to get it rolling. I was happy to do that as a project myself, but others might not be. As for the power, I'm not sure it matters if it does what you need. I wanted Atari 8/ST, Amiga primarily. Both could do that fine based on what I can see.

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The MiST has an Altera Cyclone III FPGA, MiSTer a Altera Cyclone V FPGA. Big difference there. The MiSTer is more powerful and the FPGA has more programmable cores. 

 

The MiST also only has VGA output which is quite annoying. 

 

I do like the MiST and am a big fan of Lotharek's work. If the price were significantly less than building a MiSTer I would absolutely recommend it, but it is just as expensive as building a MiSTer for a less powerful machine.

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32 minutes ago, eightbit said:

I do like the MiST and am a big fan of Lotharek's work. If the price were significantly less than building a MiSTer I would absolutely recommend it, but it is just as expensive as building a MiSTer for a less powerful machine.

Thats the main reason why iam interested in MISTer. The cost-benefit ratio is in my opionion bad for the MIST... once upon a time iam sure that it was good... but time has changed. If i read it right Lotharek (who does a great job) descibed the performance limits of the MIST with Amiga 1200/Atari ST. The MIST would be not able to emulate a Motorola 68030. And for those perfomance 200 bugs are too much money today... my opinion.

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1 hour ago, gnusto said:

I own a MISTer, and can confirm that there is a lot of DIY to it, there are a few places that will sell you fully assembled and software built out, but they charge a pretty excessive premium. It's specifically an issue finding the right SDRAM and a good case arrangement (that supports USB for instance) for the MISTer right now, and you know that lotharek's is all in one, tested and good to go. So there is a chance on the MISTer side that you'll waste money or time trying to get it rolling. I was happy to do that as a project myself, but others might not be. As for the power, I'm not sure it matters if it does what you need. I wanted Atari 8/ST, Amiga primarily. Both could do that fine based on what I can see.

Since you seem to be experienced i aks you to describe us what components are needed for the MISTer and where to get them.

 

Edited by Sid1968

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1 hour ago, eightbit said:

The MiST has an Altera Cyclone III FPGA, MiSTer a Altera Cyclone V FPGA.

 

It seems that the Altera Cyclone III FPGA is used in the Apollo Accelerators for the Amiga,

where the emulation of an 68080 is possible! Why not in the MIST?

https://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/vampire:v1200-v2:start

 

 

The Altera Cyclone V FPGA seems to be used in the Vampire 4 Standalone FPGA for Amiga,

where an emulation of a Realtimegraficcard is possible. Why not on the MISTer?

https://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/vampire:vsa-v4:start

 

 

Edited by Sid1968

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23 minutes ago, Sid1968 said:

It seems that the Altera Cyclone III FPGA is used in the Apollo Accelerators for the Amiga,

where the emulation of an 68080 is possible! Why not in the MIST?

https://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/vampire:v1200-v2:start

 

 

The Altera Cyclone V FPGA seems to be used in the Vampire 4 Standalone FPGA for Amiga,

where an emulation of a Realtimegraficcard is possible. Why not on the MISTer?

https://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/vampire:vsa-v4:start

 

It's simply a matter of someone taking time to do the design.

Edited by Keatah

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