+madman Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Like you, I see no harm in repros of games made during the Jag's lifespan. However, BSG was released afterwards, and even if it's no longer being made, the developers quite clearly made their thoughts known about their distinct opposition to repros of their games being made, or with ROMs of their work being distributed in any way. I think it's a bad look for the Jag community to patronize the dodgy repro sellers, or to pirate the game knowing how the developers feel about it. I agree, I'm not saying ban repro posts (except people who keep calling them "repos" for some unknown reason), but keep that on the down low. We all know how to use the Internet if we want to find these things. If you want to make your own BSG or buy one, just do it. No need to publicly announce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I agree, I'm not saying ban repro posts (except people who keep calling them "repos" for some unknown reason), but keep that on the down low. We all know how to use the Internet if we want to find these things. If you want to make your own BSG or buy one, just do it. No need to publicly announce it. I take it a step further by refusing to do business with the repro sellers. I'm not a fan of the developers of BSG by any means, but not liking someone doesn't give anyone the right to not respect their wishes when it comes to their creations. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 ... everyone quietly corrects their posts from repo to repro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcio_napoli Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 A question for you guys. Disclaimer: it's a layman question. If original developers don't like repros (of course they don't), why some games have such minuscule production run? Another World is a masterpiece, I'd love to have it, but I believe no more than 300 units were ever produced. If rights have already been acquired, it's coded already, the market has shown interest for it, and carts are cheaper to produce now, why can't a third or fourth batch be made? The way it is, it only leaves us with greeeeeeeeeeeeeeedy ebay sellers for the very few copies available. Or repros (which in this case none exist). I realize how naive I sound, but couldn't more official copies have been made to balance out the market? That would leave less and less room for repros. BSG as far as I know, had another super limited run and priced $160 USD to begin with, back in the day. That makes a door wide open for repro makers, don't you agree? Why couldn't more official copies been released in the wild in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) A question for you guys. Disclaimer: it's a layman question. If original developers don't like repros (of course they don't), why some games have such minuscule production run? Another World is a masterpiece, I'd love to have it, but I believe no more than 300 units were ever produced. If rights have already been acquired, it's coded already, the market has shown interest for it, and carts are cheaper to produce now, why can't a third or fourth batch be made? Why couldn't more official copies been released in the wild in the first place? This question came up a few times before, and the reason more or less is that 300 was all they found interest in at the time... people with cash in hand. To produce more and hope to make the money back wasn't assured. Edited May 23, 2019 by 82-T/A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 If rights have already been acquired, it's coded already, the market has shown interest for it, and carts are cheaper to produce now, why can't a third or fourth batch be made? Because licenses are limited to a set unit count. We've been over this several times now, sorry to be blunt but there is a search button and this other thing called Google to find out how these things work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcio_napoli Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) This question came up a few times before, and the reason more or less is that 300 was all they found interest in at the time... people with cash in hand. To produce more and hope to make the money back wasn't assured. I see, that's too bad. Wish the original copyright owners would just come out and produce another run based on improved demand over the years (needless to say, the Jag is probably more popular now than it has ever been thanks to You Tube, curiosity and nostalgia), but I realize things are never that simple. EDIT: Saw the next post, yeah, that explains it. Edited May 23, 2019 by marcio_napoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 ... the Jag is probably more popular now than it has ever been thanks to You Tube ... I'm going to ask a dumb question here. I'm 40, not exactly ancient. I started on an 8088 KayPro, used Prodigy back in the day, used to call BBSes. I was part of the .COM bust. I was here for the rise and fall of IRC, and then it's rise again for hackers. I was here for MySpace (though I hated it and never used it), and I was one of the first 100,000 people on Facebook, and now just waiting for it to fail (hopefully). I was one of the first on LinkedIn, I was here for the rise and fall of Napster, AOL Instant Messenger, Lycos, Alta-Vista, Telemate, PC-Plus, blah blah... ... but I keep hearing people saying "the Jaguar is more popular than ever because of YouTube." Am I missing some kind of viral video, did Donald Trump himself mention the Atari Jaguar in a speech? ... what happened on YouTube other than Russian car crash videos, cat videos, and street fights, that I might have missed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 ... but I keep hearing people saying "the Jaguar is more popular than ever because of YouTube." Am I missing some kind of viral video, did Donald Trump himself mention the Atari Jaguar in a speech? ... what happened on YouTube other than Russian car crash videos, cat videos, and street fights, that I might have missed? There are plenty of "lulz the Jag sux roflz omgbbqwtf" millennial videos on YouTube. AVGN did at least one, I'm sure there are countless others. Not to mention the Jag controller gets ripped on regularly. Whether or not that equates to higher prices, I don't know. Are the prices going up on the Jag because it's more popular, or is the Jag more popular because the prices are going up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcio_napoli Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 I'm going to ask a dumb question here. I'm 40, not exactly ancient. I started on an 8088 KayPro, used Prodigy back in the day, used to call BBSes. I was part of the .COM bust. I was here for the rise and fall of IRC, and then it's rise again for hackers. I was here for MySpace (though I hated it and never used it), and I was one of the first 100,000 people on Facebook, and now just waiting for it to fail (hopefully). I was one of the first on LinkedIn, I was here for the rise and fall of Napster, AOL Instant Messenger, Lycos, Alta-Vista, Telemate, PC-Plus, blah blah... ... but I keep hearing people saying "the Jaguar is more popular than ever because of YouTube." Am I missing some kind of viral video, did Donald Trump himself mention the Atari Jaguar in a speech? ... what happened on YouTube other than Russian car crash videos, cat videos, and street fights, that I might have missed? Well, here's my take on it. Indicators of such popularity: prices rising. When I decided to have my Jag (and it wasn't that long ago), I seriously don't recall games like Double Dragon, Flashback or Trevor McFur - just mere examples - being so expensive. These games haven't got any rarer. Price increases are due to higher and higher demand. Also You Tubers. Not too long ago, it was laughable to admit you liked the Jag. Now, essentially all major retro gaming channels say nicer things abou it than they ever said before, like "it was a powerful system, just very under utilized, it actually had way more decent games than people think" etc etc. Praises that no gaming channel cared to make 5, 8 years ago. I'm actually seeing people defending Cybermorph! And the whole retro gaming market is linked together. When people feel nostalgia for the N64 or PS1, there's a good chance they'll want to revisit what they missed back in the day, like Saturn (oh boy, the Saturn...), 3DO, and guess what, the Jag. The retro machine is hotter than ever before, no doubt about that. Collecting for one console invariably links to another, and for a lot of people, the Jag is coming along on the ride. It may be due to nostalgia, curiosity, a plethora of reasons. I have no charts to show, but you can look at all evidences, they all point out to Jag almost redeeming itself 25+ years later. Before I've got my Jag, I had it the "put me in the waiting list" at Lukie Games. On 2 occasions, Lukie Games sent me email saying they had it back on stock. On these 2 occasions, the console was already sold out in less than 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 There are plenty of "lulz the Jag sux roflz omgbbqwtf" millennial videos on YouTube. AVGN did at least one, I'm sure there are countless others. Not to mention the Jag controller gets ripped on regularly. Whether or not that equates to higher prices, I don't know. Are the prices going up on the Jag because it's more popular, or is the Jag more popular because the prices are going up? Hahah... "BBQ" mixed in with the OMG and WTF. Good point though, I wonder if people are just collecting for the sake of collecting. Sometimes I wonder if that's all I'm doing too now. When people feel nostalgia for the N64 or PS1, there's a good chance they'll want to revisit what they missed back in the day, like Saturn (oh boy, the Saturn...), 3DO, and guess what, the Jag. I've got a Saturn too, and a Dreamcast. They are (or were???) seriously cheap. I've had a Saturn for almost a decade, but definitely didn't have it when the system was popular. But definitely have a lot of games on there, same with the Dreamcast. I tried to join SegaAge, or whatever it's called... but they never approved my account. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummy Bear Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Let's not forget that the Jag has a small official game lineup. People who collect for the sake of collecting/bragging rights/shelf queening like that kinda thing. Same story with the 32X and Virtual Boy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Are we done with this topic now, before it devolves into another piracy discussion, that gets out of hand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcio_napoli Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) Piracy it might be, no one will deny that, but here's another angle: Do you want the Jag community to grow, or do you want it to keep in its own, minuscule, self contained happy little fantasy world? (sorry if that sounds more sarcastic than it needs, I'm putting it that way for emphasis effect) You see... when people decide to collect for the Jag, they need good reasons to do it. I can offer my example. For quite some time before pulling the plug, I was on the fence because I didn't see too many games I wanted to play and could afford at the same time. I ended up going for it, but could very well have decided the other way. Rayman, Atari Karts, BSG, Another World, to name just 4 are among the very best Jag has to offer, and all of them are out of reach for most casual gamers. So what happens if people can't afford the really good games? They simply won't enter the Jag community, as they don't see enough good AND affordable titles to make the hassle worth it. In a system with so few good games, you can't afford to leave 4 or 5 of the very best out of reach of most people. Piracy it may be. But at the same time it helps the overall Jag community to grow, which may benefit more homebrew developing, more new games, etc. One little example: If Rayman is one of the best reasons to have a Jag, and it costs ridiculous 200 USD, what will most people do? Buy it for Saturn or PS1 for 30 bucks, simple, end of story. Therefore you kinda lose someone who could have joined the Jag party to these other systems. If repros are an option, people have the chance to take another look at the Jag. Not everything is strictly bad. There are angles and angles to look it from. Just offering my 2 cents. Edited May 24, 2019 by marcio_napoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Yep, done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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