Warp12 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I am just curious, can the Jaguar handle a game with full STE specs? What about CPU speed limits? DMA sound? How about advanced demo effects? I am curious because I wonder what could be done with using an ST series emulator as a development platform. If this has been answered before, sorry. I am just getting back into the Jaguar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I am just curious, can the Jaguar handle a game with full STE specs? What about CPU speed limits? DMA sound? How about advanced demo effects? I am curious because I wonder what could be done with using an ST series emulator as a development platform. I'd say all that depends on the developer. Some people struggle changing the font. Start coding and find out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) I'd say all that depends on the developer. Some people struggle changing the font. Start coding and find out! I think it is possible to quantify the answer, from a current developer.....right? It would encompass a lot of information, since it would also clarify the way that these ST games are converted for the Jaguar. I saw some dead links on the basics, but no definitive explanation. "Start coding and find out" is a rather ridiculous answer, tbh. I am just asking what the hardware is capable of, within the realm of the current conversions. Of course, with everyone getting rich from Jaguar development, probably need to keep it all a secret, right? Edited May 25, 2019 by Warp12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I think it is possible to quantify the answer, from a current developer.....right? It would encompass a lot of information, since it would also clarify the way that these ST games are converted for the Jaguar. I saw some dead links on the basics, but no definitive explanation. "Start coding and find out" is a rather ridiculous answer, tbh. I am just asking what the hardware is capable of, within the realm of the current conversions. I don't agree. The hardware is capable of whatever the coder can squeeze out of it. Give someone 4ghz and they can produce crap if they are incompetent. I am hard pressed to think of a single thing the ST(e) can do that the Jaguar could not, outside of using its physical I/O ports or (extra) RAM. "Within the realm of the current conversions" it is capable of .... all the current conversions. Outside of that, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I think it is possible to quantify the answer, from a current developer.....right? It would encompass a lot of information, since it would also clarify the way that these ST games are converted for the Jaguar. I saw some dead links on the basics, but no definitive explanation. "Start coding and find out" is a rather ridiculous answer, tbh. I am just asking what the hardware is capable of, within the realm of the current conversions. Of course, with everyone getting rich from Jaguar development, probably need to keep it all a secret, right? Trolling is not in your interest and nobody is getting rich from homebrew development. I doubt anyone will help you, with an attitude, such as this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 I don't agree. The hardware is capable of whatever the coder can squeeze out of it. Give someone 4ghz and they can produce crap if they are incompetent. I am hard pressed to think of a single thing the ST(e) can do that the Jaguar could not, outside of using its physical I/O ports or (extra) RAM. "Within the realm of the current conversions" it is capable of .... all the current conversions. Outside of that, see above. Well there is no doubt that the Jaguar is more than capable of doing STE effects. But it would also depend on how the conversion is typically done. For example, is a portion of it through emulation? If so, that would obviously introduced compatibility and speed concerns. Also, what would be the range of CPU speed, that could be handled? The idea would be, as I said, using a ST emulator for development. That would allow for say, STE features, and even increased base cpu speed of the source material, as compared to an old, stock ST(e). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 Trolling is not in your interest and nobody is getting rich from homebrew development. I doubt anyone will help you, with an attitude, such as this. I ask a straightforward question, and someone answers with a smart-ass "start coding and find out"....and I am trolling? Give me a break. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I ask a straightforward question, and someone answers with a smart-ass "start coding and find out"....and I am trolling? Give me a break. Seriously. "Advanced demo effects" - yes it can. Which ones? I don't know, you didn't specify anything, so I'll just say yes. Is that a straighforward enough answer? It's not a smart-assed reply. If you can't code it, then it can't do it. Someone else might be able to. As for "Keeping it all a secret" that might explain why I've dropped so much source code and libraries into the Public Domain, but carry on with the sarcasm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 "Advanced demo effects" - yes it can. Which ones? I don't know, you didn't specify anything, so I'll just say yes. Is that a straighforward enough answer? It's not a smart-assed reply. If you can't code it, then it can't do it. Someone else might be able to. Okay, I get what you are saying there. But, I am sure that these conversions aren't coded from scratch for the Jag hardware...so, that is kind of where I am digging. Like, how much custom code is being used? Any ideas? If it were straight coding on the Jag, would anyone stick to old-school ST games, as opposed to something that pushed the hardware more? Like, I said, there were some links to the basics, but they are dead, from what I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) I guess I took your answer along these lines: Q: "Can man go to Mars?" A: "Start building rockets, and find out" I Hope you see the humor in this. I am not trolling anyone. Edited May 25, 2019 by Warp12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I ask a straightforward question, and someone answers with a smart-ass "start coding and find out"....and I am trolling? Give me a break. Seriously. Do you know what one of these does? Keep posting like you are and I'm sure you will find out quickly. If you don't already get it, joining a forum and immediately proceeding to fight with a site Administrator is a very bad idea. Tends to end tenures very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) I really don't get where this "trolling" idea is coming from. I have two complete Jag CD systems (one is still sealed). I have many ST's, STE's, a Falcon, and a TT. I bought my first ST new in the late 80's (a Mega 2 color system). I bought my first Jag when they were launched. I love Atari's and I am just asking some basic questions. Lighten up, people. Edited May 25, 2019 by Warp12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 http://reboot.untergrund.net/new-reboot/redirection.html and he wrote them, so ... as he said, start coding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 http://reboot.untergrund.net/new-reboot/redirection.html and he wrote them, so ... as he said, start coding. Again, "start coding" does not answer my questions. But, thank you for the link, it is more than I could find before, and gives me something to digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Again, "start coding" does not answer my questions. But, thank you for the link, it is more than I could find before, and gives me something to digest. Thank him, he's the man providing info and link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 Thank him, he's the man providing info and link. Ummm, but you are the one who gave me the link, lol...and as I say, I had only found dead links before. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 "Advanced demo effects" - yes it can. Which ones? I don't know, you didn't specify anything, so I'll just say yes. Is that a straighforward enough answer? Well, I was referring to say, overscan, palette swapping, parallax scrolling....the typical stuff. Again, back to my first post...I was looking at what would be the max possibilities, with the current conversion technique. What I am taking from this, and the information that I read in the link someone posted...is that this is not really a straightforward process, and that a lot of tweaking is required on an individual level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Well, I was referring to say, overscan, palette swapping, parallax scrolling....the typical stuff. Again, back to my first post...I was looking at what would be the max possibilities, with the current conversion technique. What I am taking from this, and the information that I read in the link someone posted...is that this is not really a straightforward process, and that a lot of tweaking is required on an individual level. It will take a lot of hardwork but as long as you are at least lukewarm to basic I'm sure you will figure it out. I'm gonna assume you know a guy at Kinko's that can do boxes and labels for you right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 It will take a lot of hardwork but as long as you are at least lukewarm to basic I'm sure you will figure it out. LOL. Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 LOL. Good one. So you a long time lurker then? Cause otherwise it makes no sense that you get that reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 I would say, if everyone would just simply take my first post, read it again, at face value....there would be no need for this drama. I get it, we have some people here who are highly respected in the forum...but I was just asking very straightforward questions. I have no intent to troll, but I can match sarcasm and smart-assery, if the need suits. And that is not needed, in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) So you a long time lurker then? Cause otherwise it makes no sense that you get that reference. Why would I need to lurk, in order to get that? "Lukewarm" to Basic is hilarious. It's like saying, "You can scale Everest as long as you are lukewarm to walking up hills". I never coded 68k asm. I did code 6502, back in the day. As far as Basic, well...a tool is as good as the person wielding it. Edited May 25, 2019 by Warp12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Bowing out of this thread, have fun guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp12 Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) Bowing out of this thread, have fun guys. "Meanwhile, back in Steem's Boiler Room, we have set breakpoints on every single hardware mapped address we can think of and have run the game. Every time the emulator stops at a hardware access we have to patch the code to do the Jaguar equivalent (or ignore it - NOP is your friend!). Repeat ad nauseum until the game no longer breakpoints in the emulator. Congratulations! You have now fixed up all the hardware accesses. Once this is done, we might start getting things on the screen. But even at this point it is unlikely to be running correctly and most probably will have no audio or joystick/keyboard input. This is yet more patching of a similar nature. As you can see, this is not emulation where it wouldn't matter what code we passed to it - everything is done hands on, one step at a time." If I would have gotten this link early on, it would have certainly helped. I am bowing out, too. Boy, that was hard. Edited May 25, 2019 by Warp12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetick1 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) Of course, with everyone getting rich from Jaguar development, probably need to keep it all a secret, right? Ah ... you are either really stupid or a troll. There really is no other way to describe your post above and is exactly why you got the response you did. I'm actually a bit shocked phoenixdownita gave you the link. Even if a developer sells his Jaguar game for $200 I'm still very sure he's making less than minimum wage if he counts all the hours put in and the cost of low numbered manufacturing. The "cheap" prices for most new games are because they sell millions or are Indie/downloads with no manufacturing costs. Even the Indie guys with the exceptions I could count on hand make less than minimum wage. Seriously how many new Jaguar games are sold ? Personally I have no interest in the Jagar but I would still show more respect than you to the software developers for their effort. Note I'm long time computer geek working on commercial hardware firmware and software for decades. And for the record I only have one Atari ...an Atari 2600. I'm more of a Commodore 8-bit / Amiga / 90's Unix Workstation guy. Edited May 25, 2019 by thetick1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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