What's Your Pipe Dream Games On The Jag.

[+CyranoJ]

2 minutes ago, BeefMan said:

If only Heretic was ported to the Jag

A Hexen on you, Sir!

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

 

I beg to differm because one exists. Or, maybe after watching it, the non-existant one is better. 

Gotta be honest, I tried reading that a few times but it doesn't make sense. I even tried googling "differm" but came up with nothing related to this topic. 

 

And it goes without saying that a pro makes a better port than an amateur, was this even up for debate? 

[+CyranoJ]

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

And it goes without saying that a pro makes a better port than an amateur, was this even up for debate? 

 

You said it was "obvious" the Jaguar version would be better.  Given the above, it's not at all obvious, now is it?

[Arcadia]

13 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

 

You said it was "obvious" the Jaguar version would be better.  Given the above, it's not at all obvious, now is it?

The only thing that's obvious is that this conversation is going nowhere. Someone said that they'd want DN3D on the Jag and I replied that a version existed for a lesser powerful platform, albeit in a very watered down version. 

 

This is the last I'm going to say about this matter. 

[VladR]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 4:52 AM, Arcadia said:

Inferior ports have always existed. Compare Doom on the Snes and Doom on the Jag, and it's obvious the Jag version of DN3D would've been better than the MD version. 

I haven't seen the MD version, so cannot comment on that. Just figured I'd chime in with experience from rendering flatshaded or textured polygons on Jaguar.

 

1. Disabled Look Up/Down : you could get very close to framerate of Doom as you would be rendering long stripes of pixels (vertical or horizontal). Of course, the problem then is that half of game becomes unplayable as a result of this, because you must aim up/down almost all the time. But in most places it could be handled like in Doom - e.g. just one enemy YPOS at given screen XPOS, so YPOS is merely cosmetic.

 

2 Free Look - now we cannot render long vertical/horizontal stripes of pixels, but must instead render pixel by pixel. That's awfully slow. At that point, we might as well render Quake dataset (though, of course, that's a whole different ballgame in terms of 3D engine pipeline).

 

 

Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible to render textured angled surfaces as a series of stripes using single Blitter call. But there is significant overhead in doing so (on top of other related glitches and precision issues), even when code runs on GPU.

 

In short, Duke is not worth the coding effort on jag. Might as well go for Quake complexity.

 

Then again, I finished Duke about 50 times more than Quake1, so there's also an argument for the amazing gameplay that Duke brings to the table (compared to the rather dull Quake1).

 

Both games got played in the dorm in my room in Multiplayer, but Duke got easily 10x more play than Quake over the cable. Quake is not much fun in multiplayer when you're drunk, but Duke is absolutely amazing in MP when drunk (especially when high)

 

[agradeneu]

9 hours ago, VladR said:

I haven't seen the MD version, so cannot comment on that. Just figured I'd chime in with experience from rendering flatshaded or textured polygons on Jaguar.

 

1. Disabled Look Up/Down : you could get very close to framerate of Doom as you would be rendering long stripes of pixels (vertical or horizontal). Of course, the problem then is that half of game becomes unplayable as a result of this, because you must aim up/down almost all the time. But in most places it could be handled like in Doom - e.g. just one enemy YPOS at given screen XPOS, so YPOS is merely cosmetic.

 

 

 

There is a version for the GBA which exactly does that. Level design is adjusted to the "Doom" alike mechanics.

[Lost Dragon]

On 6/17/2019 at 3:59 PM, pacman000 said:

A 3D game where you fly around as or on a dragon.

 

A voxel game with higher resolution sprites. 

 

(Not sure these are possible, which is why I'm putting them in the pipe dream thread.)

Talking of Voxel Games:

 

Until recently i had no idea John Carmack had actually written several Voxel Engines in his time.

 

The early version of Shadowcaster had Voxel floors at 1 point, removed when game engine was rewritten to be more polygon based..

 

 

 

And he wrote 2 Voxel Engines when he started on Quake 2 and reached a point where he thought they could almost be run in software,  but they would of run in a fairly low resolution and slower speed compared to hardware based polygon engines, so he abandoned them.

 

After completing Wolfenstien on PC he created a voxel-landscape game engine and had a car driving through it,but it never progressed any further..

Edited September 22, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[Andrew Rosa]

Would've liked to have seen an update of Combat in the vein of Defender 2000. Digitized sprites for the background and tanks. Make a single-player mode so you can go up against computer controlled opponents. Provide a variety of tanks (I'd say at least four) with differing 'armor', 'power' and 'speed' stats. Include hazards like exploding barrels, pits of acid or flame, and road spikes. Power-ups that provide temporary invulnerability, speed boost, weapons boost, etc. Vibrant explosions. Also, rotary support. 

[Lost Dragon]

On 6/10/2019 at 6:30 PM, 82-T/A said:

 

 

 

I've never seen any images or video from a supposed Battlezone 2000 if one existed, but add me to the waiting list if it gets produced! haha...

 

 

 

It was supposedly shown in a very early form at SCES in June 1994, but other than a possible title screen which didn't state a developer,  nothing seems to of been archived on it.

 

Frustrating really. 

[Machine]

Did anyone mention a Indy 500 remake? I would love to see a "INDY 500 2K". Imagine 2-4 player Indy 500 game with a few power-ups ala Micro Machines!  Love me some Indy 500(tag mode is so much fun) and LOVE Micro Machines!

[+CyranoJ]

I also played Indy 500 for hours on the VCS. 

 

hmm, been looking for some inspiration for smaller games for a future multicart... will have to add this to the list

[UHATEIT]

1 hour ago, Machine said:

Did anyone mention a Indy 500 remake? I would love to see a "INDY 500 2K". Imagine 2-4 player Indy 500 game with a few power-ups ala Micro Machines!  Love me some Indy 500(tag mode is so much fun) and LOVE Micro Machines!

I enjoyed the shit out of Micro Machines on the NES and loved the toys as a kid. When I first saw Power Drive Rally that's what I imagined was those shiny little toy cars. Something with multiple cars would be sweet: boats, hot rods, Indy cars, tanks, and whatever else it had!

Edited October 16, 2019 by UHATEIT

[Machine]

41 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

I also played Indy 500 for hours on the VCS. 

 

hmm, been looking for some inspiration for smaller games for a future multicart... will have to add this to the list

 

The "Tag Mode" is so much fun. I use to own a couple Video Game Stores and we would use Indy 500 as a tie breaker game when we ran tournaments. It became so popular, we added it to some of our contests. The Tag option is fun cuz you drive around chasing the other guy while the timer is going. At the end of the game, whoever has the most time(not being caught) wins! 

 

Imagine all the fun upgrades you could add to this game! Drop oil-spills, turbos, leave tire spikes, etc.

 

Also, check out the LED game called "Split Second". It has a realy fun "racing" game where you drive thru gates(or around them). As kids, we use to play this for hours trying to beat each others scores. At the end of the race, the track will stay the same(unless you change it) so the next guy can try the same course.  Such a simple and fun game. It has 7 other games, most are extremely fun. The LED game(Split Second) goes for $15-20 on ebay. So worth it. I have it on our coffee table and when we have parties or folks over, it ends up getting played until my wife makes us put it away. 

Check out "Split Second" (driving game starts at 1:40) :

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Machine

[stdjxf15]

Speaking of VCS classics, a new addition of Secret Mission (with a Zelda meets System Shock vibe) sounds like fun. 

[Jagosaurus]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:19 PM, Jagosaurus said:

Beast Busters with light gun and mouse. It was ported to the ST...

 

... looks like I may be getting my wish ?. Made similar comments over the years when we've discussed mouse support and/or light guns. Thurs is awesome guys!

 

. 

[philipj]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:25 PM, Machine said:

Did anyone mention a Indy 500 remake? I would love to see a "INDY 500 2K". Imagine 2-4 player Indy 500 game with a few power-ups ala Micro Machines!  Love me some Indy 500(tag mode is so much fun) and LOVE Micro Machines!

 

On 10/15/2019 at 9:41 PM, CyranoJ said:

I also played Indy 500 for hours on the VCS. 

 

hmm, been looking for some inspiration for smaller games for a future multicart... will have to add this to the list

 

Great memories with "Indy 500" playing it on the "Atari Jr" like it was going out of style... It was like playing "Combat" tank game only much faster and without the shooting. It was my go-to game after school along with "Space Chase, Solaris, Missile Command," and others that I can't seem to remember (it's been a long time), but definitely great memories with those games. I also use to like "Dragster" for the 2600, but that game is best played with two players. 

[philipj]

 

Ok... I was just looking at the "Not OutRun" demo for the Jaguar and immediately my mind went to an arcade game I use to play at a hotdog joint called "Continental Circus by Taito". The arcade machine to that game used a Motorola 68000 to pull off its graphical contents; I'm pretty sure the sprites for the vehicles were probably divided among smaller sprites to make up one vehicle. Something very badazz about that game that's very appealing; I'd love to see a Sega style racer for the Jaguar.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by philipj
Grammar correction

[Lost Dragon]

12 hours ago, philipj said:

 

Ok... I was just looking at the "Not OutRun" demo for the Jaguar and immediately my mind went to an arcade game I use to play at a hotdog joint called "Continental Circus by Taito". The arcade machine to that game used a Motorola 68000 to pull off its graphical contents; I'm pretty sure the sprites for the vehicles were probably divided among smaller sprites to make up one vehicle. Something very badazz about that game that's very appealing; I'd love to see a Sega style racer for the Jaguar.

 

 

 

Never tried in the arcade,  do remember the ST version :

 

 

[philipj]

16 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

Never tried in the arcade,  do remember the ST version :

 

 

I never really owned an ST back in the day so I never really played the ST version... But it's not surprising the game would be ported to the ST considering most of the arcades of that time used the "Motorola 68000". I have an "Atari 520 STM" on my hands today I got of ebay a while back so I'll definitely be tinkering with it soon enough at some point in time. Home-brewing for it has been on the back of my mind for a minute now, but I have to say the sound chip for the old 16-bit suck something awful IMO plus the ST community seem a little quite theses days/not too active (I could be wrong); I'm not really sure if anyone is interested in anything new for the old computer as far as new games is concerned. Also I'm still getting to know the hardware from some old "Abbacus" books I hard copied, but despite whatever, I still optimistic and have big plans for the ST computer. To get back on topic, I like the way "Cisco Heat" performs on the ST; the real arcade cabinet used 2 Motorola 68000 cpu's to pull off its graphics so the way the ST handles the pseudo 3D graphics in comparison to the arcade version is very promising, not to mention the music is pretty decent on the ST with the drum samples playing while the native sound chip do the music; sometimes I wish Atari had used a Pokey along side the YM sound chip for add sound channels. It shows me that the 68000 can handle both graphics and sound with samples fairly decent; something I'll remember when I tackle the Atari Jaguar.

 

 

 

[+CyranoJ]

10 minutes ago, philipj said:

It shows me that the 68000 can handle both graphics and sound with samples fairly decent; something I'll remember when I tackle the Atari Jaguar.

Really looking forward to seeing all your great games.

[phoenixdownita]

On 12/31/2019 at 2:07 PM, philipj said:

 

Ok... I was just looking at the "Not OutRun" demo for the Jaguar and immediately my mind went to an arcade game I use to play at a hotdog joint called "Continental Circus by Taito". The arcade machine to that game used a Motorola 68000 to pull off its graphical contents; I'm pretty sure the sprites for the vehicles were probably divided among smaller sprites to make up one vehicle. Something very badazz about that game that's very appealing; I'd love to see a Sega style racer for the Jaguar.

 

 

 

Not really:

 

https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=657

 

CPU board: 

You can spot the 2 68Ks, top right and bottom right.

 

Video Board:

 

as you can see there's a whole lot of custom Taito chips to deal with the graphics, pretty sure the 2 68Ks didn't have to do too much in that department.

[philipj]

Quote

as you can see there's a whole lot of custom Taito chips to deal with the graphics, pretty sure the 2 68Ks didn't have to do too much in that department.

Well that much is pretty obvious if you want to go into details about the arcade hardware; it will always have the upper hand in the graphics and sound department; the machine costed a few hundreds in comparison to an ST hardware performance so it shouldn't be all of that surprising. I've always admired Sega's early arcade machine particularly the "Sega VCO Object Hardware" and how it handled scaling sprites... Back in 80 and 81 they didn't even call them sprites, rather they were called stamps, but still has a very interesting history; Sega always had a good handle on graphics that scaled and rotated... They say the scaling hardware was a very primitive form of scaling or "zooming (Buck Rogers: Planet Of Zoom)" that was used in Television effects prior.  I hope to one day master that genera of programming, pseudo 3D will be my thing one day, but that's for another topic. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by philipj

[phoenixdownita]

1 hour ago, philipj said:

Well that much is pretty obvious if you want to go into details about the arcade hardware; ...

I was attempting to point out that the presence of 68Ks is merely an historical accident rather than the reason why those games run with such good gfx.

I like the 68K processors but by any means they alone are not gfx specialized chips, pretty sure a 286 on those boards would perform about the same, as to the reason why so many arcade boards opted for a 68K is anyone's guess albeit I find the accepted response here plausible https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/9738/why-werent-discrete-x86-cpus-ever-used-in-game-hardware

[philipj]

1 hour ago, phoenixdownita said:

I was attempting to point out that the presence of 68Ks is merely an historical accident rather than the reason why those games run with such good gfx.

I like the 68K processors but by any means they alone are not gfx specialized chips, pretty sure a 286 in those boards would perform about the same if not better, as to the reason why so many arcade boards opted for a 68K is anyone's guess albeit I find the accepted response here plausible https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/9738/why-werent-discrete-x86-cpus-ever-used-in-game-hardware

 

The topic is skewing a little bit, but I can think of a few arcade machines that came out in the 90s that used the 286 boards very decently; the article only confirmed what I always thought concerning the 68000 in so many arcade machine particularly the early systems like the "Atari System 1" where the cost factor played huge role with IBM charging an arm and a leg for their Jr. computers in the early 80s. I spotted an article in an old "Byte Magazine" from the late 70s that seems to debut the "Motorola 68000" that had a big "splash cover"of a "monolith" just like in the "2010 Movie" with the words "LISP" written on the bottom right, which was known for AI language at that time; very interesting article on the 68K. It seemingly highlighted some features that was favorable toward simulation task, which I found pretty promising or it could've just been a lot of hype to sell the product for that time. lol

 

As far the graphic goes with the Motorola, a few weeks ago I was looking a some comparison between versions of "Wolfenstien 3D" for the "Atari ST" and for the "Sega Genesis" help get a picture between how both display the pseudo 3D with the Geny using its sprite based graphics chip and the ST using the graphics Shifter. Another thing to consider was the ram in both systems can make the difference, but I understand the ST works very differently than the Sega Genesis with the ST's chip-set all glued together using ICs compared to the Geny graphics chip being very sprite based from a hardware standpoint... It's basically a System 16 arcade shrunk down for home use.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by philipj

[Lost Dragon]

14 hours ago, philipj said:

I never really owned an ST back in the day so I never really played the ST version... But it's not surprising the game would be ported to the ST considering most of the arcades of that time used the "Motorola 68000". I have an "Atari 520 STM" on my hands today I got of ebay a while back so I'll definitely be tinkering with it soon enough at some point in time. Home-brewing for it has been on the back of my mind for a minute now, but I have to say the sound chip for the old 16-bit suck something awful IMO plus the ST community seem a little quite theses days/not too active (I could be wrong); I'm not really sure if anyone is interested in anything new for the old computer as far as new games is concerned. Also I'm still getting to know the hardware from some old "Abbacus" books I hard copied, but despite whatever, I still optimistic and have big plans for the ST computer. To get back on topic, I like the way "Cisco Heat" performs on the ST; the real arcade cabinet used 2 Motorola 68000 cpu's to pull off its graphics so the way the ST handles the pseudo 3D graphics in comparison to the arcade version is very promising, not to mention the music is pretty decent on the ST with the drum samples playing while the native sound chip do the music; sometimes I wish Atari had used a Pokey along side the YM sound chip for add sound channels. It shows me that the 68000 can handle both graphics and sound with samples fairly decent; something I'll remember when I tackle the Atari Jaguar.

 

 

 

I'm not a huge Racing fan, but Racing game demos were often on magazine covertapes and Disks and the full games themselves in compilations, plus had a few mates with petrolhead older brothers..

 

I can still remember Moonshine Racers on the ST..

 

Cisco Heat on the C64 ? and i played later on the ST (seemed reasonable enough).

 

I did briefly look into the Jaguar version,  as it was announced,  could never personally find a lick of proof it was ever started.

 

Continental Circus was also coverted to the C64 etc, but no idea what it played like on the lower end systems.

 

 

As for the ST soundchip..i went from the delights of Pokey (very versatile)  and SID to the AY..:'( 

 

Always remember Ocean Software Musician Jonathan Dunn saying whilst they used similar soundchips, you could achieve more on the 8-bit 128K model ZX Spectrum, as that had a buzzer you could use in conjunction with the AY,  which gave good results..:-))