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What's Your Pipe Dream Games On The Jag.

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Who on earth would really want a prototype of Zone Hunter to turn up?

 

It was a mediciore VR title even back in it's day.

 

If you were good at it, you could sail through it in around 15 minutes. 

 

Virtuality Rep said the Jaguar version was going to have lower polygon count, but bigger arenas.

 

Unless the finished title was going to have a lot of extra content, it was never going to work as a home title, it was designed for the arcade market.

 

As for that other title :-)) 

 

Let's say Carmack (who's often reluctant these days to talk about Jaguar development.. period)  has a massive change of heart, releases into public domain any test code he might of done for future Jaguar titles, let's say Doom II as that was mentioned and is within realms of possibility on Jaguar..

 

It would just end up on eBay being sold in a mock up Jaguar II box at an absurd price for those desperate for the full boxed collection. 

 

Dactyl Joust exists as an impressive looking, but very brief video clip.

 

What would happen if code for this brief demo was released (it happened with Zzyrox II after all) and once people played it and it was perhaps discovered the actual play mechanics still needed an awful lot of work done on it, would that stop people selling it for absurd prices?. 

 

I don't wish to be cynical,  but when individuals were selling a collection of YT footage from planned Jaguar titles and it was footage from other versions, free to view on YT, it just seems anything new that's found and shared, will end up on eBay as a money making scheme for some.

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My understanding is Doom and Doom 2 use the same engine. Someone a few years ago here stated their thoughts that Doom II used a newer engine and a programmer from the Doom community popped up and said they're the same engine. 

 

For what that's worth

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On 1/19/2020 at 10:32 AM, Lost Dragon said:

Who on earth would really want a prototype of Zone Hunter to turn up?

 

It was a mediciore VR title even back in it's day.

 

If you were good at it, you could sail through it in around 15 minutes. 

 

Virtuality Rep said the Jaguar version was going to have lower polygon count, but bigger arenas.

 

Unless the finished title was going to have a lot of extra content, it was never going to work as a home title, it was designed for the arcade market.

 

As for that other title :-)) 

 

Let's say Carmack (who's often reluctant these days to talk about Jaguar development.. period)  has a massive change of heart, releases into public domain any test code he might of done for future Jaguar titles, let's say Doom II as that was mentioned and is within realms of possibility on Jaguar..

 

It would just end up on eBay being sold in a mock up Jaguar II box at an absurd price for those desperate for the full boxed collection. 

 

Dactyl Joust exists as an impressive looking, but very brief video clip.

 

What would happen if code for this brief demo was released (it happened with Zzyrox II after all) and once people played it and it was perhaps discovered the actual play mechanics still needed an awful lot of work done on it, would that stop people selling it for absurd prices?. 

 

I don't wish to be cynical,  but when individuals were selling a collection of YT footage from planned Jaguar titles and it was footage from other versions, free to view on YT, it just seems anything new that's found and shared, will end up on eBay as a money making scheme for some.

Jag never had the mass market  penetration that Sega or Nintendo did in North America.  It a niche collector piece. It's not neo Geo tier expensive but it's fairly expensive. Most owners where the die hard fan boys from when it first came out. I kinda on since I saw doom and tempest 2000 being played on big screen with it. Piko games in the wild at a retail location. Big selection for snes. None for other systems. The Jag is a niche system many have it for the sake of having it. 

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On 1/19/2020 at 7:41 PM, JagChris said:

My understanding is Doom and Doom 2 use the same engine. Someone a few years ago here stated their thoughts that Doom II used a newer engine and a programmer from the Doom community popped up and said they're the same engine. 

 

For what that's worth

Sorry, my comment regarding if anything from Jaguar Doom 2 or Quake was found, was meant as a tongue in cheek comment.

 

It'd be like Carmack saying, well it got as far as us  having a basic wide-ranging editor up and running for the game, that we will be able to use to rotate a level on the X,Y and Z Axis and i still have that somewhere.

 

Cue individuals in the community rushing to claim said games were now true lost titles, others making boxes in the hope said editor code would be made freely available. 

 

It's just the nature of the beast within the greater Retro community. 

 

I was engaged in lengthy chats with individual who secured the Akira Roms on Sega Genesis and at one point a certain Journalist wanted him to basically stop trying to get the actual code, just get the horror stories behind the games development,  as he could do far more with that,than he could the actual game code.

 

The more tantalising an item is in terms of what could of been, the more consumer interest it seems in many cases.

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Well! This thread has been an interesting read thus far, huh?

 

A game I'd love to see on the Jaguar would be I.K.+. I think it'd be a solid fit!

 

Historically speaking, as others have said, a faithful running port of Virtua Fighter 1 would have been cool as was definitely within reach re: gourad shaded polygons at 30fps+. (FFL, for all its horrible, horrible (horrible) flaws at least ran decently and involved texture mapping etc.)

 

FWIW: Ultra Vortek 2 would have kicked ass...

 

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I've always been a fan of "Jaleco" games since "Rival Turf" for the SNES... I don't think the Jaguar has really had a good boxing game released for it. I'd love to see a stylized boxing game like this on the Jag.

 

 

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On 2/12/2020 at 7:53 AM, NeoGeoNinja said:

A game I'd love to see on the Jaguar would be I.K.+. I think it'd be a solid fit!

 

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On 2/12/2020 at 2:30 AM, Iwantgames:) said:

I'd love to see some Dungeon Crawlers like Knightmare

Knightmare.png

Always found Captive to be the better title, but purely based on personal tastes.

 

Great shout anyway.

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A while back I sort of dabbled with the idea of a futuristic "Pac Man" clone game... I wasn't quite sure how the game play would be, but would've been based around the classic version of Pac Man with a futuristic theme and game-play. I started drawing the pictures for a proof of concept and kept it on the back-burner... Later I would toy around with the musical aspect just to breath some new life in the concept. Of course I got the music also posted in another topic I started sometime back.

 

 

 

Pac-E 1.jpg

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Pac-E 3.jpg

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6 hours ago, philipj said:

A while back I sort of dabbled with the idea of a futuristic "Pac Man" clone game... I wasn't quite sure how the game play would be, but would've been based around the classic version of Pac Man with a futuristic theme and game-play. I started drawing the pictures for a proof of concept and kept it on the back-burner... Later I would toy around with the musical aspect just to breath some new life in the concept. Of course I got the music also posted in another topic I started sometime back.

 

 

 

Pac-E 1.jpg

Pac-E 2.jpg

Pac-E 3.jpg

I like the drawings, the music isn't bad but the continuous stereo panning isn't to my taste.

Was that a side effect of YT or did you intend it to be like that?

 

EDIT: Is that 10-99 the date of the drawings? that's 21Y ago! Well the YT music is 2010 so that's 10Y ago .. wooaaaahh!

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1 hour ago, phoenixdownita said:

I like the drawings, the music isn't bad but the continuous stereo panning isn't to my taste.

Was that a side effect of YT or did you intend it to be like that?

 

EDIT: Is that 10-99 the date of the drawings? that's 21Y ago! Well the YT music is 2010 so that's 10Y ago .. woahh!

Yea both the song and the drawing are oldies... I still have drawings I did even in the early 90s; a lot of I lost over time, but a lot of them I also kept... Takes me back to simpler times. I keep it around to remind me why I enjoy drawing and making music. The song on YouTube was posted in 2010, but I composed it around probably 01 or 02 a couple of years after I did the drawing. Usually if I think I got a good idea I'll usually draw or compose and then just put it away until a later date (much later date lol) when I can fully use it if not for archive sake; no need in throwing it away. That's the life of an artist; just keep at it until something pops.

 

As far as the music goes, I'm not really sure what you mean by YT... The Jaytrax "Instrument Editor" allow me to use standard wave forms like triangle, saw, square and sine as well as the ability to custom draw the waveform, which is probably what most of the synth instruments used; very flexible tool, but also a little volatile as it would crash sometimes so I had to save often. You can use up to 16 wave forms, but will only allow for two oscillators per instrument. It was originally made between 98 and 99 when people still had their old 386 PC around so it was targeted as a music program you could use on a low end PC of that time. It came with a player you could use to put in your game programs or whatever; it was geared toward the video game market. With the tracker having up to 16 tracks, too many synth instruments used all at once could be processor intensive unless the PC was at least 150 megahertz or higher, but most of the demo songs for Jaytrax only used 4 tracks with the occasional 8 tracks to a song. The stereo is probably the result of me experimenting applying one or two of those source waveform to the stereo output and I just kept it that way; it seem like a good sound at the time lol. I was doing all sorts of crazy things back in those days with the music. I had already had the drawing thing sort-of nailed so to speak. 

 

Jaytrax was used in as a sound engine for a game called "Moon Child", which I think was originally an Amiga game title... I remember "Reinier Von Vliet", the guy who made the program said that the synth engine started on the Amiga computer before he moved it to the PC... I think you can play the game on cellphone or tablet today.

 

 

 

Jaytrax instrument editor.jpg

Edited by philipj
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2 hours ago, philipj said:

Yea both the song and the drawing are oldies...

....

You've got some talents there, is the fire still burning or is it gone?

If you have a chance you should contribute voluntarily to a game build out, it may not be your own engine or game but I think it could be (most of) your gfx art and possibly music.

 

Not sure aside from Reboot and Wave1Games if anyone else is actually releasing games for the Jag these days (Orion gave up, I did buy his Alice's Mom Rescue CD version), but given you seem to have a fascination for the machine may as well get involved even if it could mean you drive them mad crazy and they kick you out of the project ... or maybe it just works out if you know how to compromise ... they definitely are not in the same league with each other but a lost talent is a lost talent. 

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14 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

You've got some talents there, is the fire still burning or is it gone?

If you have a chance you should contribute voluntarily to a game build out, it may not be your own engine or game but I think it could be (most of) your gfx art and possibly music.

I have so many projects on paper from ideas I've accumulated over the years... I think I have enough fire to keep going. A lot of art styles I want to experiment with plus the programming, I have enough to keep the wheels spinning for a good while; I like to believe that I'm in it for the long haul. I've spent a lot of time reading the Jag manual, I may as well do something with it the knowledge. I think if I can manage to make triple A stuff for the defunct system, people will gravitate toward my games before long even if they don't buy it right away.

15 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

Not sure aside from Reboot and Wave1Games if anyone else is actually releasing games for the Jag these days (Orion gave up, I did buy his Alice's Mom Rescue CD version), but given you seem to have a fascination for the machine may as well get involved even if it could mean you drive them mad crazy and they kick you out of the project ... or maybe it just works out if you know how to compromise ... they definitely are not in the same league with each other but a lost talent is a lost talent. 

Well... I've had my second thoughts about making Jag games... The only thing is all of those ideas I've written and planned for over the years, I'm not ready to throw them away yet. Seems like there's still a following for the old system, which means there's still some interest out there so I'll be around. Besides I want to know if I can pull off making games for the Jaguar and be successful with it; I want to make the games no one else are making.

4 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

What's a pipe dream game for the Jaguar?

 

Penguinet's Rikki & Vikki

MatoSimi's Ridiculous Reality

Catacombs The Abyss

 

(All with updated graphics that suit the Jag, of course)

 

:)

I like how the sound and music on the "Rikki & Vikki"... Without going into how the 7800 could compete with the NES thing, I hear the sound engine for that game uses something similar to what the Atari Lynx sound engine could do. The Lynx had it's own sound engine that I would like to see emulated on the Jaguar... Been making plans for that as well.

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On 1/18/2020 at 8:08 PM, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

EDIT--- 700 units sold on any new game for the Jaguar is an unrealistic goal/expectation. It doesn't matter what game it is. That's just not going to happen

It absolutely matters what game it is but when new games are released at $70, $80, $90... of course those numbers are unattainable.

 

That's not to say some of the games don't warrant their pricing (especially in regards to effort/production/quality involved, years spent on a single game) but it's a hard pill to swallow when any single game is $80+. Anyone would be hard pressed to sell that many at those price points and since the prices are likely prohibiting sales to begin with, once they are discontinued (for whatever reason) the already in ultra-low numbers produced later end up selling for yet even more to hardcore collectors for $300+

 

Considering the limited user base, it's fascinating to me that so many are able to even be sold at those prices.

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When I was selling my game collection on ebay, I was able to sell all of it due to other people over pricing their stuff... Most of the stuff I sold, I didn't pay near what I sold it for on ebay, but because people were over pricing the same thing I was selling, I was able to make sales at affordable prices. It was a very good learning experience for me; I'm thinking selling Jaguar at maybe $57 or $65 seems reasonable. If I ever get any games out, I'm thinking along those lines as a way to actually get people to buy the games. The $80 price is very high, but very tempting at the same time, but when selling on ebay I've had to swallow my pride so many times just to get things out of the door less it sits there for a long period of time... That means no one really wants to fork over the cash for some reason so I have to sweeten the honey pot to actually make a sale.

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13 hours ago, Clint Thompson said:

It absolutely matters what game it is but when new games are released at $70, $80, $90... of course those numbers are unattainable.

 

That's not to say some of the games don't warrant their pricing (especially in regards to effort/production/quality involved, years spent on a single game) but it's a hard pill to swallow when any single game is $80+. Anyone would be hard pressed to sell that many at those price points and since the prices are likely prohibiting sales to begin with, once they are discontinued (for whatever reason) the already in ultra-low numbers produced later end up selling for yet even more to hardcore collectors for $300+

 

Considering the limited user base, it's fascinating to me that so many are able to even be sold at those prices.

It's because of its uncommon,  neo geo aes new indie games cost like 250-500. People are collector, players some have limited budgets some have unlimited. Ecconomics of scale or lack there of. 

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On 3/10/2020 at 2:22 AM, KidGameR186496 said:

Throwing another one into this hat (thread): In the Hunt by Irem...

Fun game, I’ve recently put a lot of time into the Saturn version (suffers from terrible slowdown). Not sure I’d pay the $70 price point though, particularly as the arcade version can be played for a few bucks on modern consoles, would be an interesting novelty though.

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"In The Hunt" is an Irem masterpiece... For some reason the game sort of reminded me of the submarine game on "Combat" for the Atari 2600. Really almost all of Irem arcade game from that time period has incredible artwork. They really push for a very immersive gaming experience; it kind of make me miss the old arcade days.

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1 hour ago, philipj said:

"In The Hunt" is an Irem masterpiece... For some reason the game sort of reminded me of the submarine game on "Combat" for the Atari 2600. Really almost all of Irem arcade game from that time period has incredible artwork. They really push for a very immersive gaming experience; it kind of make me miss the old arcade days.

Probably you mean "Air Sea Battle" because in Combat there's only Tanks, Planes and Jets.

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