Jump to content
chevymad

Cheap video convertor.

Recommended Posts

Nice!!!

 

...There´s someone providing valid input about products that they can afford or they simply use!!! :-)

 

Which model did you buy?

 

In any case, here's an excellent primer on this subject (as well as a sound approach to effectively mitigate or eliminate legacy CRTs):

 

 

Good still pictures can be delivered in several ways... but when motion kicks in, lights go off for the vast majority of these "solutions"... Only THEN we can see who's who...

 

Cheers!

 

I got the iScan Ultra. Short link below.

 

https://ebay.us/Zfa3Fg

 

I've seen the video you mentioned. It's a good overview. Actual performance can vary depending on the cable you use, the actual signal levels of your video output, and your final display device. How many over-driven, over-saturated Atari signals did they feed into the converters? Also, the cable is probably the single most important element in the chain. One SCART cable I got my STe resulted in a jumpy, noisy, distorted picture. I swung the settings in my Framemeister from left to right to no avail. Then, I swapped cables and the most beautiful GEM desktop I have ever seen appeared. It's even sexier on the 42" plasma TV. Now I sing praises to the Framemeister.

 

Yep, it's expensive but it's extremely powerful.

 

Of course, the $35 plasma TV from the local thrift store beats the Framemeister. ;)

 

I don't notice latency. What is it measured to be? A frame or so? That's 1/60th of a second. Maybe I'm just an old man but I don't notice 1/60th of a second anymore. Now, if it was a whole second or something then we're talking big delays.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Be careful with recommending Ambery... they discontinued the good converter and replaced it with one that doesn't work with the 8-bits.

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/279294-ambery-s-video-to-hdmi-converter-scaler/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4269493

I am well aware of that. First, not recommending it here, just said I would compare. Second, I'm talking about the VGA converter, not HDMI.

 

It is a shame though, and luckily, Huey Jones whom I first recommended Ambery too, obviously got the old version and said it works fantastic, so that's good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pick one up too. Received it yesterday.  It appears to be virtually identical to the one I bought branded as Etekcity a couple years ago.  This unit produces very nice sharp up-scaled video.  Very pleased with its performance.  Like the Etekcity unit I reviewed in another thread, it has the HDMI input (pass thru) so you can use it as a switch if you are short of HDMI inputs on your TV.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 11:57 PM, 6BQ5 said:

Nice!!!

...There´s someone providing valid input about products that they can afford or they simply use!!! 🙂

Which model did you buy?

In any case, here's an excellent primer on this subject (as well as a sound approach to effectively mitigate or eliminate legacy CRTs):

https://youtu.be/lHoOKLWIMKU

Good still pictures can be delivered in several ways... but when motion kicks in, lights go off for the vast majority of these "solutions"... Only THEN we can see who's who...

Cheers!

 

I got the iScan Ultra. Short link below.

 

https://ebay.us/Zfa3Fg

 

I've seen the video you mentioned. It's a good overview. Actual performance can vary depending on the cable you use, the actual signal levels of your video output, and your final display device. How many over-driven, over-saturated Atari signals did they feed into the converters? Also, the cable is probably the single most important element in the chain. One SCART cable I got my STe resulted in a jumpy, noisy, distorted picture. I swung the settings in my Framemeister from left to right to no avail. Then, I swapped cables and the most beautiful GEM desktop I have ever seen appeared. It's even sexier on the 42" plasma TV. Now I sing praises to the Framemeister.

 

Yep, it's expensive but it's extremely powerful.

 

Of course, the $35 plasma TV from the local thrift store beats the Framemeister. ;)

 

I don't notice latency. What is it measured to be? A frame or so? That's 1/60th of a second. Maybe I'm just an old man but I don't notice 1/60th of a second anymore. Now, if it was a whole second or something then we're talking big delays.

 

Sure, you can't beat that $35 Plasma TV deal (especially with the video quality you describe).... It will take a long, long distance between stops to find something like that... 💪👍 Just keep an eye on the hours of use on the screen (this is important for Plasma screens).

 

BTW, don't know about the iScan Ultra... Mine are the iScan HD and HD+ (main difference is the support of HDCP, and a few other memory settings, but video processing and scaling engine is about the same). I think the iScan Ultra may be a step between the prior model (iScan pro or v2 I believe) and the later HD/HD+.

 

And yes, the Framemeister is VERY powerful, gives out AMAZING video quality, and initial lag (at constant resolution) seems about 1.0 to 1.5 frames. That should be very manageable during "playback" time, for virtually any title I can think of, at this moment. Anything else about lag on this subject is just bullshit, in practical terms.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I received my converter today. The same style one everyone else got with ports on the sides instead of ends. I tested it on my NTSC 800 (which only displays B/W on my LCD TV/moitors when plugged directly in as S-video or composite video) and it only displays in B/W, so 800 owners beware. However, I tested it on my PAL converted 1200XL with SV 2.1 video upgrade, and it works great on it, the picture is as sharp and colorful as the images @DrVenkman  posted earlier, so I confirm it works with PAL signals.  

 

Luckily my trusty Ambery Svideo-to-VGA converter picks up the color chroma signal on my 800, so I have color with it now via VGA. 

 

The image quality on both is about equal.

 

I decided it was too much trouble to bother with pictures since others have already posted some and my quality is the same.

 

Edited by Gunstar
A mysterious picture image got attached that I had to delete
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside, and as you've noted in your post @Gunstar, the 800 chroma signal is terribly weak - so weak that modern and nearly modern digital display devices don't seem to like it very much. I tested two of my 800's today on a cheap-ass "Broksonic" TV that I rescued for use as a workbench display recently. This thing is a 720p LCD of marginal overall quality, but it has RF, composite, S-video, component, VGA and HDMI inputs, and it's only like a 20" diagonal screen so it's great for a workbench. But even though my 800's look pretty great through S-video on my Toshiba CRT set or my Commodore monitors, both of them look like a washed-out gray mess through S-video on this LCD set. I bet they will look the same or worse through this converter. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should get a kickback! lol  and wow.. available from 1 other store at $45 now!

Edited by chevymad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now it's just the wait and see game as to the longevity of this device. I've had bad luck with cheap converters in that area, though this one works better and with more than those others.  On the other hand the $60 or so I spent on the Ambery converter was well worth it as it handles anything I throw at it brilliantly and has lasted years so far...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is NOTHING sort of weak on A800's chroma signal strength... well, at least on my unit, and as evidenced by signal / booting levels when running through DVDO iScan HD/+ video processor.

 

In fact, my 800 requires a NEGATIVE adjustment in Saturation, similar to my first 800XL, but opposite to my second 800XL, which DOES require a much higher positive adjustment in saturation, to reach appropriate color reproduction. What's odd is that my 800 XLs are both Rev.C Hong-Kong, with ALPS mechanic / PCB keyboard, and ~7000 apart in their Serial Numbers...

 

What the 800 does have, however, is a TOTALLY OVERDRIVEN Y-signal, with stock P:P voltage levels that clearly exceed standard s-Video levels. Correction is MANDATORY by replacing R189 with ~220 Ohm resistor (at least for NTSC standard).

 

Daring to speculate a bit, probably cheap video scalers may not be capable of handling gain control independently for Y and for C signals and (may) be globally over-correcting due to 800's rogue level of Y (being it the main amplitude reference for scaler's gain control on input signal) (!?)

Edited by Faicuai
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I’m CERTAIN that LOTS OF CAPS really get your point across. ;)

 

I’m sure the 1200XL designers boosted that chroma level because they were high and decided to screw with things just because they felt like it. 

Edited by DrVenkman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2019 at 7:16 PM, DrVenkman said:

As an aside, and as you've noted in your post @Gunstar, the 800 chroma signal is terribly weak - so weak that modern and nearly modern digital display devices don't seem to like it very much. I tested two of my 800's today on a cheap-ass "Broksonic" TV that I rescued for use as a workbench display recently. This thing is a 720p LCD of marginal overall quality, but it has RF, composite, S-video, component, VGA and HDMI inputs, and it's only like a 20" diagonal screen so it's great for a workbench. But even though my 800's look pretty great through S-video on my Toshiba CRT set or my Commodore monitors, both of them look like a washed-out gray mess through S-video on this LCD set. I bet they will look the same or worse through this converter. 

So to bring this topic back to what is in fact the actual topic, and away from those who seem determined to bring attention only to themselves in some way, I feel obligated to update my earlier post with data rather than self-aggrandizing pronunciations of opinion passed off as Truth™.

 

WARNING! LOTS OF IMAGES FOLLOW! :) 

 

Here's an actual unmodified, stock 48K Atari 800 through the S-video input of the little video converter box at issue, as displayed through a midrange 2013 Samsung consumer-grade LED (U6000 series, IIRC but not going to be arsed to pull it out and get the model number), upscaled to 720p but with a correct 4:3 aspect ratio. This set doesn't do 1080p/60 so 720p it is. If I get super-motivated this weekend I might do some tests with the QLED 4K set downstairs but I can't imagine a 240 line NTSC analog signal will be improved by even greater upscaling, no matter how much better the panel is. 

 

But in any case, I was incorrect - this cheap little box handles a stock 800 chroma/luma signal just fine. So it's just the S-video input of my cheap little workbench LCD that sucks, lol.

 

IMG_1701.JPG

IMG_1702.JPG

IMG_1703.JPG

IMG_1704.JPG

IMG_1707.JPG

IMG_1708.JPG

IMG_1709.JPG

IMG_1710.JPG

IMG_1711.JPG

Edited by DrVenkman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it must just be my cheap LCD TV's don't show my 800's chroma then, even through the cheap converter over HDMI, but my Ambery video-to-VGA shows the color on my cheap sets through it and the TV's VGA...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had some time today to compare these XD-901s to my EtekCity units.  They appear to be identical in design and function.  The only difference is the silkscreen brand name on top.  I have to say that I am extremely pleased with the output for NTSC 1080P using the S-Video input.  Very clear sharp picture that is actually better than straight S-Video to my 2009 Samsung 46".  For $22.99, you can't go wrong with this unit.  I ended up buying three off Amazon in the past two weeks.  I'm running a 1200XL with the ClearPic 2002 video modification.  I also have Omniview 80 and the text is very clear and sharp through this unit.  I have surrendered to the fact that HDMI will be around a while and I will likely soon run out of native S-video displays.  Looking to the future, these babies are the ticket for me.  All my monitor cables are S-Video, not separate Y/C (from 8-bit classics).   

 

My test included 40 and 80 column test clarity and Defender.  Defender is a good test for the following reasons:

 

1)  Some units over brighten the color and the scrolling mountains on Defender are orange-ish to red in appearance.  Some converters make them look white.

 

2)  The spaceship has three distinct colors.  the canopy and center of the ship are a hot pink,  the rest of the ship is light pink and there is one green pixel on  the tip of the vertical tail.  These sections should be very defined with sharp borders.

 

3)  The humans should have three very distinct color bands (head, body and legs).

 

 

Edited by ACML
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you have separate Y/C cables, adapters to connect both signals plus ground to a single consumer S-Video connector are inexpensive to buy and not complicated to make if you’d rather. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ACML said:

Had some time today to compare these XD-901s to my EtekCity units.  They appear to be identical in design and function.  The only difference is the silkscreen brand name on top.  I have to say that I am extremely pleased with the output for NTSC 1080P using the S-Video input.  Very clear sharp picture that is actually better than straight S-Video to my 2009 Samsung 46".  For $22.99, you can't go wrong with this unit.  I ended up buying three off Amazon in the past two weeks.  I'm running a 1200XL with the ClearPic 2002 video modification.  I also have Omniview 80 and the text is very clear and sharp through this unit.  I have surrendered to the fact that HDMI will be around a while and I will likely soon run out of native S-video displays.  Looking to the future, these babies are the ticket for me.  All my monitor cables are S-Video, not separate Y/C (from 8-bit classics).   

 

My test included 40 and 80 column test clarity and Defender.  Defender is a good test for the following reasons:

 

1)  Some units over brighten the color and the scrolling mountains on Defender are orange-ish to red in appearance.  Some converters make them look white.

 

2)  The spaceship has three distinct colors.  the canopy and center of the ship are a hot pink,  the rest of the ship is light pink and there is one green pixel on  the tip of the vertical tail.  These sections should be very defined with sharp borders.

 

3)  The humans should have three very distinct color bands (head, body and legs).

 

 

 

Static text or still-images are doable by many converters, assuming line-doubling works well.

 

It is with MOTION when things stop working for most of these little boxes.

 

As an example, try ICET´s view file command, with icet.txt file, and enable SMOOTH scroll. Watch closely what happens to your 80-col characters.

 

Another example is AtariBlast (Xevious, Zaxxon and Old zeeland scenes). They should all appear PIXEL-sharp across the entire screen (Every single pixel).

 

Cheers!

Edited by Faicuai
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2019 at 12:10 PM, ACML said:

Had some time today to compare these XD-901s to my EtekCity units.  They appear to be identical in design and function.  The only difference is the silkscreen brand name on top.  I have to say that I am extremely pleased with the output for NTSC 1080P using the S-Video input.  Very clear sharp picture that is actually better than straight S-Video to my 2009 Samsung 46".  For $22.99, you can't go wrong with this unit.  I ended up buying three off Amazon in the past two weeks.  I'm running a 1200XL with the ClearPic 2002 video modification.  I also have Omniview 80 and the text is very clear and sharp through this unit.  I have surrendered to the fact that HDMI will be around a while and I will likely soon run out of native S-video displays.  Looking to the future, these babies are the ticket for me.  All my monitor cables are S-Video, not separate Y/C (from 8-bit classics).   

 

My test included 40 and 80 column test clarity and Defender.  Defender is a good test for the following reasons:

 

1)  Some units over brighten the color and the scrolling mountains on Defender are orange-ish to red in appearance.  Some converters make them look white.

 

2)  The spaceship has three distinct colors.  the canopy and center of the ship are a hot pink,  the rest of the ship is light pink and there is one green pixel on  the tip of the vertical tail.  These sections should be very defined with sharp borders.

 

3)  The humans should have three very distinct color bands (head, body and legs).

 

 

I just had opportunity to test DEFENDER and another busy-screen game, this one with animated sprites, JOUST. From about 6' away on my 60" LED in my game room, the images were sharp, clear and fluid, perfectly cromulent for casual and easy use. 

 

I certainly don't regret the $22 experiment.

 

(ASIDE: my browser accepts "cromulent" as a perfectly cromulent word without flagging it as misspelled; Ms. Krabappel would be proud). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does that box have an aspect ratio switch?

 

My display doesn't let me pillarbox signals that are in high-definition. So if this box stretches everything to 16:9, I'd be stuck playing classic games that were distorted to widescreen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Atariboy said:

Does that box have an aspect ratio switch?

 

My display doesn't let me pillarbox signals that are in high-definition. So if this box stretches everything to 16:9, I'd be stuck playing classic games that were distorted to widescreen.

No, it upscales everything you input to 16L9, either 720p or 1080p. Fortunately for me, the TV in my game room does let me pillar box stuff so the aspect ratio is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That stinks.

 

I wish the makers of these cheap scalers would realize that the majority of the material that people are sending through them is in 4:3, and that many of the users want to view their content in their original aspect ratio. The ability to narrow down a 720p or 1080p widescreen picture being input to their tv to down to pillarboxed 4:3 proportions is far from being a standard feature in 2019 on HDTV's. That means many people such as myself are unable to fix this at the television end.

 

In fact this display I'm primarily using these days (that I believe is a 2018 model) is my first that even allows me to do anything to the aspect ratio of a HD source. My previous sets would display 720p, 1080i, and 1080p as is with no ability for me to customize proportions. But despite various options such as zoom or cinema on my tv, not a single one allows me to compress a 16:9 picture down to 4:3 proportions. 

Edited by Atariboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying it out with my first Atari. My UAV modded, 48k, A400. First time using my Nuxx with it since the upgrades as well. Videos even better!

20190625_220545.jpg

20190625_214350.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...