Doom On The NES Hack

[0078265317]

Truly Ingenious.

 

https://hackaday.com/2019/06/06/doom-on-the-nes/#comments

[Flojomojo]

That's wild. Not THAT much different from the custom chips that are in some cartridges to provide extra power and features, I suppose.

 

I hope everyone has already seen this and visits it often. If not: https://itrunsdoom.tumblr.com/

[Pixelboy]

It's a really neat project, but looking at the game run, it looks like the NES is just being used as a pass-through for whatever graphics the R-Pi is spitting out.

 

To make this really feel like Doom on the NES, the in-game graphics would have to be remade to use less color and simpler patterns on the walls. At least that's what I would do if I wanted to sell this as a cool homebrew product.

[Punisher5.0]

That is awesome! I would totally by one

[CatPix]

It's a really neat project, but looking at the game run, it looks like the NES is just being used as a pass-through for whatever graphics the R-Pi is spitting out.

 

To make this really feel like Doom on the NES, the in-game graphics would have to be remade to use less color and simpler patterns on the walls. At least that's what I would do if I wanted to sell this as a cool homebrew product.

My though exactly, what he did is "merely" (it's still very impressive) creating a video converter that does "VGA graphics" to NES.

It's impressive but at the same time, it's like taking part in the Tour de France with an Electric bicycle. Do you really deserve the victory in that case?

[Reaperman]

It looks like it doesn't use the controller for input, so while neat, it seems a bit short of something I need.

 

I've always wondered why we didn't have more SNES games/homebrew using add on processors, since I believe it's a bit simpler on that system vs this NES here.

I've also wondered why there weren't more systems that just ran with a SOC in each cart and just used the console for passing IO. I believe the xavixport did this(?). While the system wouldn't likely ever be fully modern, it wouldn't necessarily ever be obsolete either, as the games would probably be built using whatever cell phone processor was cheap at the time.

[CatPix]

Until the mid-2000, chip memory was very expensive; the biggest carts on the Nintendo 64 were 64 Mo, 10 time less than the 640 (then 700, then 800) Mo offered on CD-Rom (first used for the PC-Engine in 1989).

And in the mid-2000's CD were replaced in console by DVD with 2 Go of data.

Plus this would make the price of games rise more than CD-based games. I mean what you suggest it quite literally to sell a whole system in a cart that plug on a dock.

And if you start to integrate chips in the dock, then you're limiting it, leading it ultimately to becoming obsolete. Especially since tech evolve. For example if such a system had been released in 2003 or before, it wouldn't feature HDMI and possible not even DVI or YUV, meaning that this "never-obsolete" system would be obsolete merely 3 years after release.

 

Your idea tho might work for portable systems. Except that of course the display would be a factor of obsolescence... Or not. Seems like the 3DS and their minuscule resolution screens are still selling strong.

But people are used to have portable games that are cheap, and cramming a whole SOC in a cart would be costly.

[DragonGrafx-16]

Until the mid-2000, chip memory was very expensive; the biggest carts on the Nintendo 64 were 64 Mo, 10 time less than the 640 (then 700, then 800) Mo offered on CD-Rom (first used for the PC-Engine in 1989).

And in the mid-2000's CD were replaced in console by DVD with 2 Go of data.

Plus this would make the price of games rise more than CD-based games. I mean what you suggest it quite literally to sell a whole system in a cart that plug on a dock.

And if you start to integrate chips in the dock, then you're limiting it, leading it ultimately to becoming obsolete. Especially since tech evolve. For example if such a system had been released in 2003 or before, it wouldn't feature HDMI and possible not even DVI or YUV, meaning that this "never-obsolete" system would be obsolete merely 3 years after release.

 

Your idea tho might work for portable systems. Except that of course the display would be a factor of obsolescence... Or not. Seems like the 3DS and their minuscule resolution screens are still selling strong.

But people are used to have portable games that are cheap, and cramming a whole SOC in a cart would be costly.

With many CD based games if you were to remove the CD Audio based soundtrack... the game files would fit in under 64mb.

[Reaperman]

 

Your idea tho might work for portable systems. Except that of course the display would be a factor of obsolescence... Or not. Seems like the 3DS and their minuscule resolution screens are still selling strong.

But people are used to have portable games that are cheap, and cramming a whole SOC in a cart would be costly.

 

I think it'd be more for budget or special interest home consoles. Certainly HDMI still has some legs on it.

 

I'm most surprised some homebrewer/publisher hasn't built a cart to refresh the snes. I suppose retrobit came the closest with their genesis/nes/gba carts, but those didn't feed video back through the system and there's probably some critical reason why that invalidates the whole idea. (sigh)

 

As for cost, xavixport games weren't expensive, those cell phone systems they used to embed in magazine ads probably weren't bad, neither are NOACs, pi zeros, etc.

and if somebody were designing one these days, they might look at the Amlogic S905 variants powering those HDMI android boxes in the $20-30 (shipped) price range.

It costs more than a regular cart, but since it only has to run one game for its entire life, it also won't go obsolete like the android boxes running the same chip, and there'd be more reason to keep it around. When the s912 gets a super-budget version, then carts could just move on to those, or whichever current SOC met their game requirements. The real down side with those is they'd probably be cold-booting some stripped down flavor of android every time a game cart was swapped which could take a while.

 

I get it, it's not done because it's kind of a silly unpopular idea, but it's kind of a neat one.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Reaperman

[CatPix]

With many CD based games if you were to remove the CD Audio based soundtrack... the game files would fit in under 64mb.

Certainly in 1989, but not at all in 2003.

I remember that many games weren't ported on Dreamcast from PC or PS2 because the developers couldn't cram their game on the GD-ROM. And back then soundtracks were no longer CD tracks. Of course the failure of the Dreamcast didn't helped either.

[DragonGrafx-16]

Certainly in 1989, but not at all in 2003.

I remember that many games weren't ported on Dreamcast from PC or PS2 because the developers couldn't cram their game on the GD-ROM. And back then soundtracks were no longer CD tracks. Of course the failure of the Dreamcast didn't helped either.

I was more so comparing them as they were around 1996... comparing the PS1 and Saturn to the N64... in 1989-92 with CD games if you removed the CD audio it would probably fit in 10mb unless it was one of those FMV games lol...

Edited June 8, 2019 by DragonGrafx-16

[RevEng]

Raspberry Pi is exceedingly overpowered compared to any of the NES add-on chips, and anything as powerful wouldn't have been financially feasible back in the day, even by Nintendo. By a lot of folks definition, that's cheating.

 

Not that cheating makes it less of a valid project or less interesting, but it's not really "Doom on the NES" so much as "Doom through the NES". The game loses all of the charm and console flavor that a real attempt at Doom on NES would have. But whatever floats your boat.

 

The hack sends the Raspberry Pi framebuffer output over usb to an in-cart FPGA, so it's also "Linux on the NES" using the same naming logic. One could use the same hardware to drive the display with a full-blown computer, which could make for instant "Fortnight on the NES", "League of Legends on the NES", and "MS Office on the NES" hacks too.

[godslabrat]

IMO, since the project could be done for less than $60 TODAY, it's fair TODAY. But you know someone is going to suggest it should have been done in 1994, in which case I'm going to have to facepalm.

[Newsdee]

This makes me think of JAMMA. One can basically have a system that is only a display, controllers, and power supply, and the rest is handled by whatever plugs into it.

 

I suppose one could build a "micro JAMMA" where carts provide digital and analogue video out, but it seems redundant. The only upside I can see would be compatibility with older arcade cabinets. So that cart of "Super Hombrew Fighter" can run in an arcade and a portable system at minimum effort.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Newsdee

[Osgeld]

its not running on a NES its running on a ras pi and dumping the video into the framebuffer

 

neat yes, but its just using the NES as a video pass though, its not doom running on a NES, its doom running on a PI with a complex data stream to composite adapter

[godslabrat]

its not running on a NES its running on a ras pi and dumping the video into the framebuffer

 

neat yes, but its just using the NES as a video pass though, its not doom running on a NES, its doom running on a PI with a complex data stream to composite adapter

How is that different from Tetris running on a Super Game Boy?

[DragonGrafx-16]

How is that different from Tetris running on a Super Game Boy?

That's a bit of a opposite really... the Game Boy had a weaker CPU than the SNES... but in this case the cartridge has a stronger CPU... kinda like a NES version of a 32X but on steroids. lol

[Osgeld]

How is that different from Tetris running on a Super Game Boy?

 

the SGB was using better hardware to run a game designed for a lesser system

 

this uses a modern computer to run the software and the NES is nothing more than a video passthough device

 

now again its still neat, but its not any more neat than the recent demo's of AVI files running though an NES, but saying doom is running on a NES in this case is just as equal as saying doom is running on a VCR ... just cause I passed a signal to it from a 1ghz multicore computer

[Shawn]

No controller input from the NES = not playing it on the NES.

 

It's interesting but you could be running Crysis like this on the NES if you felt like it.

[Tanooki]

Guy has a good point, it's a cheat, but no more a cheat than what Nintendo did with the NES and SNES. The mini Pi in there basically is on the level of them like slapping a FX2 chip or a SA1 inside of the SNES carts. In both cases you run a massively more powerful and capable chip to drive a game through the system that could never do it using it much like a slave system or a pass through using just what's needed to spit the game out to the TV. I remember over a decade ago Martin at NESWorld covered a cart that never was (public) for Hellraiser on the NES that basically did a similar technique but a lot more basic chip (I think it was a Z80) to do what the NES couldn't handle itself.

[RevEng]

It's very different from helper chips. If Doom plays entirely on it's own when you apply +5v and GND to the right pins on the cart, sans video, I wouldn't think that any game code is actually running "on the NES".

 

If other period add-ons also treat a console like a display pass-through, the games aren't running on that console either. They're running on the add-on.

[Newsdee]

It bothers me that it does not handle the controllers. If it did, I could consider it as a standamone cartridge. There must be a way to do it...