The real powers of the Atari weren't Scrolling games with Sprites ;)

[emkay]

5 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Show me? Changing character content means what? Content of chars or the chars in screen memory?

 

chars in screen memory as I stated forget it... too much variations to fit all in a charset.

 

if you change the chars data then I don’t get why you need chars at all... then better to use bitmap which is simpler and less DMA sucking from CPU.

 

in a raycaster no gains in char mode. You work in pixel collums. Read wiki.... and how the stuff works in real world. John Carmack was not a muppet. And forget “clear screen”... you don’t do that in a raycaster... you do it in a better way.

I really miss a howling Wulf emoticon in this forums.

[Heaven/TQA]

You know what coders would do? Proof own claims. Fire up excel or whatever program or tool and play around and see if your statement stands in a practical way...

 

you don’t prototype you just claim

or speculate... just do the maths and come back with results.

[emkay]

3 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

You know what coders would do? Proof own claims. Fire up excel or whatever program or tool and play around and see if your statement stands in a practical way...

 

you don’t prototype you just claim

or speculate... just do the maths and come back with results.

It's all approved. Not on the Atari but on the C64. You get more , if character mode is used.

Even if Antic 5 is used , with the most DMA Cycle stealing, it is faster than C64  calculations. Ask "Irgendwer" why Stunt Car Racer is running that way and that detailed.

I don't want to use the word "idiotic" , but what is it that makes "demo coders" using code that shows nothing ?

On the C64 it is not really a problem, as good 3D games were available.

OK. On the Atari, we have Total Eclipse at a nice speed. I also wonder how fast such games could be,  after the resolution is lowered, and the Transitions have been changed to solid colors on the Atari.  You know "the Nybble" Mode with GTIA Mode 10 overlay offers more CPU cycles there.

[Heaven/TQA]

Don’t know how often i have to

tell you... mood is not character mode... it mimics with characterset a linear bitmap what Atari has out of the box... 

 

you say chars is the way to go and I tell you proof it with numbers in excel or whatever programming language or even maths.

 

my noob experience tells me... no way.

[Heaven/TQA]

10 minutes ago, emkay said:

It's all approved. Not on the Atari but on the C64. You get more , if character mode is used.

Even if Antic 5 is used , with the most DMA Cycle stealing, it is faster than C64  calculations. Ask "Irgendwer" why Stunt Car Racer is running that way and that detailed.

I don't want to use the word "idiotic" , but what is it that makes "demo coders" using code that shows nothing ?

On the C64 it is not really a problem, as good 3D games were available.

OK. On the Atari, we have Total Eclipse at a nice speed. I also wonder how fast such games could be,  after the resolution is lowered, and the Transitions have been changed to solid colors on the Atari.  You know "the Nybble" Mode with GTIA Mode 10 overlay offers more CPU cycles there.

Jesus... total eclipse is again something totally different... go back to starting point and tell us what is your claim? Are we back to 3d in general after raycaster in chars? And me switching contex?

Edited June 26, 2019 by Heaven/TQA

[emkay]

3 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Don’t know how often i have to

tell you... mood is not character mode... it mimics with characterset a linear bitmap what Atari has out of the box... 

 

you say chars is the way to go and I tell you proof it with numbers in excel or whatever programming language or even maths.

 

my noob experience tells me... no way.

LOL.

Mood is a software (!) Mode that simulates 40x50 pixel. It takes a lot CPU cycles while a similar mode on the Atari offers more CPU powers. I wrote that earlier  . At the End, it IS Character mode , as it adresses the characters , not the content.  

Edited June 26, 2019 by emkay

[emkay]

1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Jesus... total eclipse is again something totally different... go back to starting point and tell us what is your claim?

I don't need to go back to a starting point.  It's just the fact that, even if the C64 is the worse machine for any 3D, the Atari has no counter part. That easily could run faster, hands down. 

How fast things go, is depending, on the goal and the tech behind it.  

[Heaven/TQA]

6 minutes ago, emkay said:

LOL.

Mood is a software (!) Mode that simulates 40x50 pixel. It takes a lot CPU cycles while a similar mode on the Atari offers more CPU powers. I wrote that earlier  . At the End, it IS Character mode , as it adresses the characters , not the content.  

I am out as you are switching without notice all meta level of discussion. Mood is raycaster fullstop. Internal in bitmap mode. You stated xxl uses basic to show raycaster is possible in 290 bytes. Then using that for in charmode... in the end we were at total eclipse...

 

I am back to SNES coding.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Heaven/TQA

[emkay]

1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

I am out as you are switching without notice all meta level of discussion. Mood is raycaster fullstop. Internal in bitmap mode. You stated xxl uses basic to show raycaster is possible in 290 bytes. Then using that for in charmode... in the end we were at total eclipse...

 

I am back I SNES coding.

Yes, I know that discussions about 3D on the Atari is useless, as long as no coder wants to do such stuff on the Atari.

[Heaven/TQA]

In the end you “just” want a 3d game... neveless what it is and what tech it uses... so find a coder then... or go Kickstarter.

[Heaven/TQA]

1 minute ago, emkay said:

Yes, I know that discussions about 3D on the Atari is useless, as long as no coder wants to do such stuff on the Atari.

Damned free world...

[emkay]

1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Damned free world...

What a misplaced sentence

 

You know Dung tastes great. Gazillions of Flies cannot be wrong

[Heaven/TQA]

13 minutes ago, emkay said:

What a misplaced sentence

 

You know Dung tastes great. Gazillions of Flies cannot be wrong

 

I stay to it... you blame again “the coders not doing 3d” and I wanted to

state yeah free world and will of them not to do or to do what they want... if you don’t like it... as many times said... do yourself... but yeah I know... “me not a coder and never will or wanted to be...” 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Heaven/TQA

[emkay]

5 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

 

I stay to it... you blame again “the coders not doing 3d” and I wanted go

state yeah free world and will of them not to do or to do what they want... if you don’t like it... as many times said... do yourself... but yeah I know... “me not a coder and never will or wanted to be...” 

 

Psst. I tell you something. There are a lot people around who state that the Atari is the better computer. But they don't show the strengths of the Atari by chasing the C64 ... you know those Scrolling Games with Sprites, that the Atari never can reach.

 

 

The real problem is that the Atari doesn't get the right support, because the C64 don't have similar features to compare with.

You know "free world" and stuff...

Only after someone on the C64 has done some FX that "could" run on the Atari, they try to adopt it. 

Not to tell that this is really sick.  The Atari has a lot to offer that is still unexplored, caused by that.

[ivop]

7 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I can't believe I'm saying this but some of that sounds reasonable. I'm not kidding... and with that I'm running away before people start tossing rotten veggies at me.

I once thought that, too. But after you consider the amount of angles of just _lines_ inside an 8x8 character going from left to right, then add corners of walls, and edges, and you soon realize you run out of characters that are needed for every (character) line. Or 4x8 with four colors, but it's still the same.

 

Now emkay wants textures, too. Then, every line needs another charset because the lower you get, the angle under which the texture is rendered, is different. Oh, and that's just up and down rendering. From left to right, each character needs a different texture for every angle, too, wich is just plain impossible.

 

And mirroring won't work with textures, unless the texture is verticaly symetric.

 

Besides all that, I have more confidence in people that have actually coded raycasters

Edited June 26, 2019 by ivop

[R0ger]

I wouldn't go as far as claiming I know what Emkay wants

[+Stephen]

2 hours ago, R0ger said:

I wouldn't go as far as claiming I know what Emkay wants

What do we want?  Mode D.  When do we want it?  ALL THE TIME.

What do we do?  Insult coders.  When do we do it?  ALL THE TIME.

 

Here's an example of a project given the Emkay touch (usually music he changes without request nor consent from the original author).  I call it "You should have done it this way!":

[José Pereira]

10 hours ago, R0ger said:

I wouldn't go as far as claiming I know what Emkay wants

When we're talking of platforms, scrolling,... he enters to say the best is double scanline Bitmap mode GR.7 limited to 4colours when we all see that will never look good that way and that his claims that is just adding PMGs for more colour simply has it constraints because they're not possible to be freely posted there. On A8 our ColourMap is charmode and 5th colour PF3.

But when we're talking about 3D, 2,5D or whatever and that A8 has the best that is linear and pixel per pixel he jumps to say that is charmode we should use.

Sorry but I just couldn't resist to post something. I was with some weeks with no posts so thanks to emkay I can say something and if all can post why not me also :grin:.

Oh God make me good but not yet!...

 

P.s.- But why that allways when he starts a topic or enter is always one(s) that has more talkings, answers, 'ping-pong' replies you say I answer, you quote then he/they quote and on and on and on...

This seems the biggest mistery, maybe not only on the A8 fans, AA but on all the universe ;)... 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by José Pereira

[emkay]

13 hours ago, Stephen said:

What do we want?  Mode D.  When do we want it?  ALL THE TIME.

What do we do?  Insult coders.  When do we do it?  ALL THE TIME.

 

Here's an example of a project given the Emkay touch (usually music he changes without request nor consent from the original author).  I call it "You should have done it this way!":

So this is your skill of imagination.

Sorry for you.

[emkay]

16 hours ago, ivop said:

I once thought that, too. But after you consider the amount of angles of just _lines_ inside an 8x8 character going from left to right, then add corners of walls, and edges, and you soon realize you run out of characters that are needed for every (character) line. Or 4x8 with four colors, but it's still the same.

 

Now emkay wants textures, too. Then, every line needs another charset because the lower you get, the angle under which the texture is rendered, is different. Oh, and that's just up and down rendering. From left to right, each character needs a different texture for every angle, too, wich is just plain impossible.

 

And mirroring won't work with textures, unless the texture is verticaly symetric.

 

Besides all that, I have more confidence in people that have actually coded raycasters

 

 

After reading such posts , I wonder how software comes to the A8 anyways?

[emkay]

4 hours ago, José Pereira said:

When we're talking of platforms, scrolling,... he enters to say the best is double scanline Bitmap mode GR.7 limited to 4colours when we all see that will never look good that way and that his claims that is just adding PMGs for more colour simply has it constraints because they're not possible to be freely posted there. On A8 our ColourMap is charmode and 5th colour PF3.

But when we're talking about 3D, 2,5D or whatever and that A8 has the best that is linear and pixel per pixel he jumps to say that is charmode we should use.

 

You're able to write that. Well, not fully right, just some perception mistakes in it.

Putting them aside: What is so hard to understand that?

If you're not satisfied with the results, you possibly have the wrong 8 Bit.

 

 

[emkay]

16 hours ago, R0ger said:

I wouldn't go as far as claiming I know what Emkay wants

It's really simple: Emkay wants coders that want to code the Atari as the Atari is build, not chasing the C64.

[flashjazzcat]

[ivop]

6 hours ago, emkay said:

After reading such posts , I wonder how software comes to the A8 anyways?

 

Well, we prototype and calculate what's feasible. If it's not, we don't make it. If it is, we prorgam it, instead of bitching and moaning on AtariAge to others that they are doing it wrong.

[emkay]

23 minutes ago, ivop said:

 

Well, we prototype and calculate what's feasible. If it's not, we don't make it. If it is, we prorgam it, instead of bitching and moaning on AtariAge to others that they are doing it wrong.

Interesting that NONE of the good coders takes part here . Even better, I never had such crap discussions as with always the same guys here .Really, every time I just want to explain thing, that ARE possible, the same guys appear just for searching for the cause to write nonsense.  It's not my fault, if you're not able to write that stuff. So, why don't you just keep distant ?

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by emkay