ivop Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, emkay said: Interesting that NONE of the good coders takes part here . Even better, I never had such crap discussions as with always the same guys here .Really, every time I just want to explain thing, that ARE possible, the same guys appear just for searching for the cause to write nonsense. It's not my fault, if you're not able to write that stuff. So, why don't you just keep distant ? LOL You must be fun at parties. As for the good coders, YOU are certainly not one of them. Yeah, I cannot write a 160x96 raycaster in character mode, with textures and all that jazz. If you think you can, SHOW US THE CODE. I'll hold your beer...... (crickets) 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, emkay said: Interesting that NONE of the good coders takes part here . Even better, I never had such crap discussions as with always the same guys here .Really, every time I just want to explain thing, that ARE possible, the same guys appear just for searching for the cause to write nonsense. It's not my fault, if you're not able to write that stuff. So, why don't you just keep distant ? Show what you have written that is better than ivop's code, or maybe it's time you piss off and leave the forum. Same with Heaven - show me anything you've done on any of 6 or 7 systems he codes for. If not, pack up your bags and go, we are all done with your nonsense here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Atari800 Atari5200 Atari7800 Atari Lynx Atari ST C64 Vic20 Amiga OCS Sony PSX Super Nintendo PICO-8 Arduino jesus.... for a non professional coder not bad. E.g. 3rd place Revision oldschool compo 1st place SillyVenture 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said: Atari800 Atari5200 Atari7800 Atari Lynx Atari ST C64 Vic20 Amiga OCS Sony PSX Super Nintendo PICO-8 Arduino jesus.... for a non professional coder not bad. E.g. 3rd place Revision oldschool compo 1st place SillyVenture And ? If you're able to sit on ten different chairs with the same trousers . What does that mean? I'm more about coders who really build software from scratch and then turn into using details. Now that the thread is derailed again, I put this one in.... It's really like the back is in the front to see that the weaker machine has games, the Atari only can dream of. The funny stuff in those games is that the "info bar" is only there , to have the screen smaller for some better fps. But the game really has some ambient. On the Atari this would have been a masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1977 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 18 hours ago, ivop said: If you think you can, SHOW US THE CODE. I'll hold your beer...... (crickets) I'd be quite interested in seeing what emkay has coded too, he seems to know his stuff ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 “I'm more about coders who really build software from scratch and then turn into using details.“ like you? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said: “I'm more about coders who really build software from scratch and then turn into using details.“ like you? A present for your ability of following threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, emkay said: This one has only four steps in 90 degrees rotation, you can only walk in the middle of the pathway (also four steps per block) and there are no textures. I even doubt if this is a raycaster at all. And yeah, this could be done with charsets on the Atari. Don't know why you'd want that though. With a couple of proper charsets and mirroring, you could probably even pre-render all the possible 40x12 screens and after that it's just animating and show the right screen at the right time. Edited June 28, 2019 by ivop is -> it's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, ivop said: This one has only four steps in 90 degrees rotation, you can only walk in the middle of the pathway (also four steps per block) and there are no textures. I even doubt if this is a raycaster at all. And yeah, this could be done with charsets on the Atari. Don't know why you'd want that though. You know what a learning progression is? The games that had been done in the 80s caused demos of today. The ludicrous part is that it is ok to have C64 demos that do all trickery depending on the VICII , but do 3D parts that were inspired by old C64 games.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) I think emkay should port scarabus and put better sounds to it. What so you say emkay, if you did that I bet they wouldn't pick on you so much. Edited June 28, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I actually used to be an Acorn Archimedes coder. After that I went back to the C64 (before branching out to just about anything that would let me run code on it). That thing had a nice, fast, simple CPU, linear chunky screen memory, 256 colours, it slaughtered the Amiga in terms of 3D power, and could give it something to think about in terms of 2D too. So... why would I code an Amiga game instead? *because the people who would download and try the game aren't a pain in the arse about it*. Endless amounts of crap about 'not showing the power of the machine enough', 'not being an Amiga beater', 'Just not being the game I'd have written so you shouldn't have either'. It was a complete and total buzzkill on a machine I actually liked. It just seemed completely and totally pointless. I'm seeing some of that here too. It's not technical, it's not a question of cycle counts, register usage or anything like that. Sometimes it's just that people just make it outright unsatisfying to code for some platforms. If you want an honest answer about why people may choose 'the weaker platform' then I'm afraid that's it. Compared to some 8-bit machines writing a Sinclair Spectrum game would be like walking both ways uphill in winter whilst carrying a rock on your back, but given that there would be a certain amount of *appreciation* for having made the effort... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, sack-c0s said: It's not technical, it's not a question of cycle counts, register usage or anything like that. Sometimes it's just that people just make it outright unsatisfying to code for some platforms. If you want an honest answer about why people may choose 'the weaker platform' then I'm afraid that's it. Well, I understand that. But, to be honest. there really should be some timely correct 3D games on the Atari. Just like Armalyte on the C64 or Turrican 2 on the Amiga. The "weirdness" factor is that particular "main coders" on the Atari deny the best features there. But they would spent Decades of their life to have some "Sprite with scrolling" game, that at least reminds of the C64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Just don't care about what random people online write. Do what you like. You can never satisfy everyone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Look at any YouTube video and read the comments, it usually ends up on a argument. Nobody is particularly right or wrong, but end up arguing from their point of what they have seen in their lives. Just do what you do and stuff what others say as someone will always try to knock down your achievement. Look at Space Harrier on the A8, probably the finest coding on the Atari, yet after making so many things achievable on the A8, it got slated for a flickery menu. Years later, he offers a new version with an improved menu. Did anyone apologise? I am working on a game at the moment. In order to ensure I get it out, I have simplified what I will release and technically it won't blow anyones socks off, but as a game, it should be good. I bet I get my detractors, but I will ignore them. If I can then build the game up and release a better version, then great. Coders, you are all giving us your personal time and I thank you all for that. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 hours ago, R0ger said: Just don't care about what random people online write. Do what you like. You can never satisfy everyone. Wait... I have some interesting Stuff for you: Answerx by IVOP in the Thread about SIDEscrolling games. "As for shooters, I always loved Caverns of Mars. But that's vertical." " I mean Screaming Wings" Now imagine the following: He states to know the Atari, and does coding it at a well known level. Using his own words. Well, the Atari has vertically an almost free type of scrolling. It literally ( ) means to cost no CPU , and with some cartridge plugged in, a level could get "endless". Then there is the vertical split of PMg used in the game, that allows some impressive looking attack waves. Without big programming expense. He mixes it up with Sidescrolling, that costs a lot CPU cycles that even interfere with any PM multiplexing routine. In some cases it would be better to NOT use the scrolling. Put shifted content on a cartridge and to scroll with LMS changes only. To get more CPU cycles and to compensate the need for a very complex programming expense. Someone who has NO idea of what the Atari can do , could have done this fauxpas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanti77 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 My vertical shooter WIP 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, shanti77 said: My vertical shooter WIP Nice approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Vertical Scrolling. Here is the part in the Atari that is easily on PAR to the C64. If you see games that use vertical scrolling on the C64, you can get there with "some details less and some colors more" . Assuming to tickle people's interest in a game, there could be a compromise. Imagining a game like "Downfall" , combined with a labyrinth style section (Low res with high fps) , and some depth scroller (using all ANTIC features)... The essential part would be to have a game that can take advantage of all features of the Atari. It wouldn't all look and sound the same. And, about a software music player: low res modes allow better timing for playback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, emkay said: Wait... I have some interesting Stuff for you: Answerx by IVOP in the Thread about SIDEscrolling games. "As for shooters, I always loved Caverns of Mars. But that's vertical." " I mean Screaming Wings" Now imagine the following: He states to know the Atari, and does coding it at a well known level. Using his own words. Well, the Atari has vertically an almost free type of scrolling. It literally ( ) means to cost no CPU , and with some cartridge plugged in, a level could get "endless". Then there is the vertical split of PMg used in the game, that allows some impressive looking attack waves. Without big programming expense. He mixes it up with Sidescrolling, that costs a lot CPU cycles that even interfere with any PM multiplexing routine. In some cases it would be better to NOT use the scrolling. Put shifted content on a cartridge and to scroll with LMS changes only. To get more CPU cycles and to compensate the need for a very complex programming expense. Someone who has NO idea of what the Atari can do , could have done this fauxpas ... I never mixed anything up with sidescrolling. I was fully aware the games I mentioned were vertical scrollers. I even said so, BOTH times (you just didn't quote the second time). I just mentioned two shooters I liked BITD. Nothing more. After having us guess what you think, you are now starting to think you know what others think. *sigh* I'm out of this thread. Edited June 30, 2019 by ivop add content 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, ivop said: I never mixed anything up with sidescrolling. I was fully aware the games I mentioned were vertical scrollers. I even said so, BOTH times (you just didn't quote the second time). I just mentioned two shooters I liked BITD. Nothing more. After having us guess what you think, you are now starting to think you know what others think. *sigh* I'm out of this thread. You'd better stayed out of it at all. If your statement is what you think.... If someone asks for a side scrolling game, you cannot point to a vertical scrolling game, even if mentioning that. BECAUSE: You cannot simple change the game direction 90 degrees . And that's exactly the point. Suggesting things that weren't possible by people who claim to know of it. This causes newcomers to get fully wrong expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/27/2019 at 3:15 AM, Stephen said: What do we want? Mode D. When do we want it? ALL THE TIME. What do we do? Insult coders. When do we do it? ALL THE TIME. The power of double scanline mode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 LiteRally is a great example . Fluent gameplay given by correct usage of the available hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 The power of Antic D and PMs... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said: The power of Antic D and PMs... It's actually 13 char mode lines (104 scanlines, 13 lines with full DMA cycle stealing) and 40 Antic D line (80 Scanlines) What do you want to say with your post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I want to point out that it depends on the code and not on gfx mode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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