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emkay

The real powers of the Atari weren't Scrolling games with Sprites ;)

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1 minute ago, emkay said:

I'm not saying you write nonsense, but in the context it is nonsense. If you can save CPU cycles for 3d calculations, it doesn't matter how you reach that.  To put the Lynx into the thread shows your shifted realization here. On the Atari 800  it is much more relevant how you manage the resources. Every cycle that isn't needed for screen handling, is available for the calculations.

and I say...charset is exactly oposite of what you say... it does not SAVE but complicate things to make it worse... simply believe me.

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before that Stunt Car Racer eample comes up... I state... it uses charset on A8 not because it would be faster but because its based on the C64 code... which uses chars.

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1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

and I say...charset is exactly oposite of what you say... it does not SAVE but complicate things to make it worse... simply believe me.

Why should I ? Your "demos" show raw 3D without details. Ofcourse this will be faster.

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Just now, Heaven/TQA said:

before that Stunt Car Racer eample comes up... I state... it uses charset on A8 not because it would be faster but because its based on the C64 code... which uses chars.

I know . But in that case it is a nice compromise. The game is running , this is worth more than any word ;)

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1 minute ago, emkay said:

Why should I ? Your "demos" show raw 3D without details. Ofcourse this will be faster.

what details are missing in the textured Wolfenstein engine Tamas Bene wrote? it uses 32x64 textures... can use up to 8 in a level. now tell me... you never will achieve the same with 128 chars. mirrored or not...

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, emkay said:

Why should I ? Your "demos" show raw 3D without details. Ofcourse this will be faster.

btw. is that quoting? or why "demos"? they are demos nothing to add.

Edited by Heaven/TQA

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8 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

what details are missing in the textured Wolfenstein engine Tamas Bene wrote? it uses 32x64 textures... can use up to 8 in a level. now tell me... you never will achieve the same with 128 chars. mirrored or not...

And where are the enemies?

 

As we only have C64 games for a comparision, just compare your "andropolis Demo at 4:00 ff " and Mood. Mood shows a bigger screen, more details and colors and enemies. People might think of more details in the "andropolis Demo at 4:00 ff " because the transition suggest a higher resolution.

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btw. if you think you come away with 512 bytes charset (64 chars in gr.6).... just load some of your "views" needed for the 3d illusion into g2f... and you will be suprised how fast  your 64 chars are gone...

 

ah... wait... those 64 chars are already gone with a tiny 8x8 viewport... mirrored... 8x4... wow... so you talk about a 64x64 max resolution... in mono colors per char or 32x64 in 4 colors... or 16x64 in 16 colors/shades... 

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1 minute ago, emkay said:

And where are the enemies?

 

As we only have C64 games for a comparision, just compare your "andropolis Demo at 4:00 ff " and Mood. Mood shows a bigger screen, more details and colors and enemies. People might think of more details in the "andropolis Demo at 4:00 ff " because the transition suggest a higher resolution.

where are the enemies in your code?

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1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

where are the enemies in your code?

Mood HAS enemies. Did you miss them ?

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Not to tell that COLOR RAM itself is a cause for slowdowns... it is faster than EVERY of those 3D demos on the C64.

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Just now, Heaven/TQA said:

no... but mood is holly crap c64 low res.... ;)

 

again  : But it shows more details than your examples.

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1 minute ago, emkay said:

again  : But it shows more details than your examples.

details of what? a game? yes... because game != demo...

 

and if you want to code a game feel free. Numen source code with all relevant informations and map converters etc are on github.

 

I dont code games so i dont care about those details like gameplay, AI etc.

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1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

details of what? a game? yes... because game != demo...

 

and if you want to code a game feel free. Numen source code with all relevant informations and map converters etc are on github.

 

I dont code games so i dont care about those details like gameplay, AI etc.

Even as a Demo it shows more details. It shows 16 colors instead of only 4 and it shows detailed wall parts, not just unicolor walls.

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3 minutes ago, emkay said:

Even as a Demo it shows more details. It shows 16 colors instead of only 4 and it shows detailed wall parts, not just unicolor walls.

 

Mood? You know and understand the difference between Wolfenstein raycasting engine and a portal engine?

 

no? Check wiki... and you might realize that 3d textured portal engine is out of scope for 6502.

 

if you compare mood with say Arsantica raycaster? I would say I have higher res textures as mood seem maybe 16x16?

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but back to your case...

 

show me how you would take advantage of chars? it will never work out. i stand to it. you totally underestimate how fast you run out of "potential prerendered" chars....

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1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

 

 

if you compare mood with say Arsantica raycaster? I would say I have higher res textures as mood seem maybe 16x16?

Well, what to say, if people want to press sugar out of a lemon ? I'd expect lemon juice then  ;)

The "3d" in Mood works very well, depending on the given Hardware.  What you get counts, not what you try to get.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

but back to your case...

 

show me how you would take advantage of chars? it will never work out. i stand to it. you totally underestimate how fast you run out of "potential prerendered" chars....

Again: I cannot show it on the Atari, caused by the "huge amount of 3D games" .... we don't have.

On the C64 the color ram is a slowing down factor, but after all the 3d impression is faster than any demo that uses graphics. On the Atari the Character modes are much more flexible and faster for drawing, if you chose the right one.

Edited by emkay

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2 minutes ago, emkay said:

Well, what to say, if people want to press sugar out of a lemon ? I'd expect lemon juice then  ;)

The "3d" in Mood works very well, depending on the given Hardware.  What you get counts, not what you try to get.

 

yes. and me tells you.... your initial statement using chars would NEVER give you mood.

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Just now, Heaven/TQA said:

yes. and me tells you.... your initial statement using chars would NEVER give you mood.

 

1 minute ago, emkay said:

Again: I cannot show it on the Atari, caused by the "huge amount of 3D games" .... we don't have.

On the C64 the color ram is a slowing down factor, but after all the 3d impression is faster than any demo that uses graphics. On the Atari the Character modes are much more flexible and faster for drawing, if you chose the right one.

take c64 screenshots put it into g2f.... and "boom" dream bubble busted...  have you ever thought of why all (!) raycasters are not prerendered view gfx? on any platform? because all are muppets?

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3 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

 

take c64 screenshots put it into g2f.... and "boom" dream bubble busted...  have you ever thought of why all (!) raycasters are not prerendered view gfx? on any platform? because all are muppets?

How about an example of what you're about exactly?

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, emkay said:

How about an example of what you're about exactly?

As I don’t know what you are going for as you usually switching context I have no clue...

 

i have shown you a lot examples in bitmap and they are in bitmap because they are not in chars possible... don’t need to show.

 

my raycaster alone has 96 turning steps from left to right... without moving in x and z which changes hole

set of chars. In 96x60 that never fits into 1 charset. Don’t need to proof it’s simple maths.

 

Edited by Heaven/TQA
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2 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

As I don’t know what you are going for as you usually switching context I have no clue...

 

i have shown you a lot examples in bitmap and they are in bitmap because they are not in chars possible... don’t need to show.

 

my raycaster alone has 96 turning steps from left to right... without moving in x and y. In 96x60 that never fits into 1 charset. Don’t need to proof it’s simple maths.

 

The only one who changes context sits in front of  your Screen ;)

No one may stop you from changing the character content to get that "96 turning" steps. But you don't have to draw it over the full screen, just in ranges.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, emkay said:

The only one who changes context sits in front of  your Screen ;)

No one may stop you from changing the character content to get that "96 turning" steps. But you don't have to draw it over the full screen, just in ranges.

Show me? Changing character content means what? Content of chars or the chars in screen memory?

 

chars in screen memory as I stated forget it... too much variations to fit all in a charset.

 

if you change the chars data then I don’t get why you need chars at all... then better to use bitmap which is simpler and less DMA sucking from CPU.

 

in a raycaster no gains in char mode. You work in pixel collums. Read wiki.... and how the stuff works in real world. John Carmack was not a muppet. And forget “clear screen”... you don’t do that in a raycaster... you do it in a better way.

Edited by Heaven/TQA

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