The real powers of the Atari weren't Scrolling games with Sprites ;)

[Mclaneinc]

There you go again, talking nonsense and then when you get a bit of fun taken out of you for gobsmackingly daft claims you try and make it that its ruining the thread....The thread has no consequence when you start your daft stuff, its already ruined....Read the posts up till before mine, do they sound supportive of the thread, no, they say you are being silly beyond words..Pointless thread then.. 

 

You start threads on the purpose of being awkward for the most part, you make claims with zero proof and then make little throw away remarks about stuff but then play the hurt person when it gets you some throw away stuff.

 

Can't have it all ways dear boy...

 

Well you have now been added to my ignore list.....

 

 

[emkay]

8 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

There you go again, talking nonsense and then when you get a bit of fun taken out of you for gobsmackingly daft claims you try and make it that its ruining the thread....The thread has no consequence when you start your daft stuff, its already ruined....Read the posts up till before mine, do they sound supportive of the thread, no, they say you are being silly beyond words..Pointless thread then.. 

 

You start threads on the purpose of being awkward for the most part, you make claims with zero proof and then make little throw away remarks about stuff but then play the hurt person when it gets you some throw away stuff.

 

Can't have it all ways dear boy...

 

Well you have now been added to my ignore list.....

 

 

Again one of those Trolls gone? Hopefully he keeps the ignore for real.

So the chance for a good thread gets closer.

 

He derailed a lot of earlier Threads , even where I didn't take part.

Edited July 3, 2019 by emkay

[Mclaneinc]

Lol...Got this before I had a chance to put the ignore on...

 

Getting called a troll by you simply is amazing...You clearly have no idea what a troll is do you...As for derailing threads, lol......Ah, its only OT when its not you doing it then...Yes, ignore on for you, mind you, I'll not hear such dribble as having 99% more Atari experience as everyone on here...LOL..

 

Bye de bye troll boy..

[R0ger]

Amount of threads he derailed might be over 99% though ..

Anyway, you know how your friends post these deep quotations on facebook, and they are silly or right out stupid most of the time ? Well today I got this:

 

Don't take criticism from people you would never go to for advice.

 

Accredited to Morgan Freeman, but I bet it must have been some AA member ..

[emkay]

42 minutes ago, R0ger said:

Amount of threads he derailed might be over 99% though ..

Anyway, you know how your friends post these deep quotations on facebook, and they are silly or right out stupid most of the time ? Well today I got this:

 

Don't take criticism from people you would never go to for advice. 

 

Accredited to Morgan Freeman, but I bet it must have been some AA member ..

 

Wow, what a dangerous sentence. As it causes people who don't know nothing get teached to ignore everything .

Intelligent people ask for problems they don't see ... 

 

 

[R0ger]

There is big difference between bug report and criticism ?

[Gunstar]

For all of @emkay 's fantasies of ego and terribly made arguments that go in non-understandable circles, I have to give him props for not giving up and taking a beating, and still sticking around and continuing his insane egotistical posts and threads. He sure knows how to brush off the insults and ask for more...constantly. It reminds me of this old comedy skit, I don't even remember the show for sure, but I think it was from 'In living color' where Jim Carrey got his start, about this guy getting into a street fight and kept getting beat to hell, but kept coming back for more...also like Monty Pythons 'Quest for the holy Grail' and the Black Knight scene..."...'tis nothing, just a scratch, come on! have at you!'

[R0ger]

Well as long as he's funny mascot, it's ok. His attempts to energize active coders are quite counterproductive though.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, R0ger said:

There is big difference between bug report and criticism ?

surely you mean "undocumented feature" report?  ?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Guest

[_The Doctor__]

I think the problem of experience vs being experienced is also at issue, you may have experienced, but have you ever been experienced...

 

To inspire sometimes, to be inspired at other times. I hope to see some of these ideas made real. Since we appear to have a problem bringing your ideas of such things to reality.... we call on you to show us and then we can take that and add it to our experiences, perhaps finding inspiration and knowledge to make your dream come true.

Edited July 3, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[Heaven/TQA]

25 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I think the problem of experience vs being experienced is also at issue, you may have experienced, but have you ever been experienced...

 

To inspire sometimes, to be inspired at other times. I hope to see some of these ideas made real. Since we appear to have a problem bringing your ideas of such things to reality.... we call on you to show us and then we can take that and add it to our experiences, perhaps finding inspiration and knowledge to make your dream come true.

 

That would need some of us being Ghandi like or why should I do that? My stuff is downgraded plus spending time to explain and at least try to discuss on a certain level. Bringing my stuff down and being non-profit contract worker for him? I did that in an old ABBUC Intro hundred years ago where he did the gfx...

 

 

 

[emkay]

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I think the problem of experience vs being experienced is also at issue, you may have experienced, but have you ever been experienced...

 

To inspire sometimes, to be inspired at other times. I hope to see some of these ideas made real. Since we appear to have a problem bringing your ideas of such things to reality.... we call on you to show us and then we can take that and add it to our experiences, perhaps finding inspiration and knowledge to make your dream come true.

 

I give that a like. After reading the last 6 posts , I'm pretty sure, the experience will be never reached by them.  People come to this thread, standing here like the gods of coding and then there appear threads like "NMI/IRQ" . Normally , I'd appreciate what coders do. But if people pose  like they were gods for dropping you down, and then read that thread .

I'm really out of word for this. How can it be ? If I'm not really sure of something, I'd never write or judge about anything. But they do on and on.

Instead of pressing my argumentations down, it would be more useful to think about logical solutions. I wonder, if they do the same in the company where they work. 

A type of "haha.. I'm the best. I can do code, the boss cannot. What a loser he is" . I'd bet, they don't see that the "loser Boss" gives them the chance to earn money with their work. Possibly too much, so they feel like they could fly ?

To say, "I only accept people who can do what I do" is such a small little nobody thinking.

Intelligent human behavior is to do things , sharing the work, and everyone contributes what he can do best.

Henry Ford wasn't able to build a car.... but he had the position to get people doing things that was needed to build cars in a big company. What if Atari Coders had to do their part back then ? Killing the Company because the Boss can't code?

 

Coding for the Atari is not really for money. But what could it mean ...    

   

[R0ger]

I don't get the reference to NMI/IRQ thred (which is mine ?) ..

I accept you as Atari fan. I don't accept you as coder. Simple as that.

 

[emkay]

5 hours ago, R0ger said:

Well as long as he's funny mascot, it's ok. His attempts to energize active coders are quite counterproductive though.

 

32 minutes ago, R0ger said:

I don't get the reference to NMI/IRQ thred (which is mine ?) ..

I accept you as Atari fan. I don't accept you as coder. Simple as that.

 

 

Well, that's your problem.

 

An Atari Fan... what is the exact definition ?

Some "McLaininc" who isn't really an Atari fan, just likes some games on the platform  and is more oriented to other platforms. No idea what's going on in the machine , but has always an attitude, big enough  for pulling others down?

 

Or "Stephen" ...  ? Not sure of his knowledge of the Atari , but as it seems he only acts in a kind of teacher, some do-gooder.

Trying to educate people for his own position? Funny, he always pulls me down (or tries at least) with the Mode D "running gag  ... but then he appreciated the game by Gorgh (wich is reall well) .... that uses .... guess what

 

Do you really think , I could do a Basic program right out of the Head, by just being an "Atari Fan" ? The Graphics , even Graph2Font has some ideas by me implemented. Or the experience with POKEY ? Do you think an "Atari Fan" could do that just because being a fan of something?

To do a Basic Program that allows to use very low hardware usage , means what ? How about knowledge of what's going on? Which Registers can speed up things, and what is slowing things down? Do you think this is pure invention? 

 

Actually , I never claimed to be a coder. But that's because  to me  more relevant stuff takes too much lifetime. I simply don't find the time for doing the stuff myself. 

 

 

 

[R0ger]

Let's see this thread. You make title, which really doesn't make any sense. You link to XXL work. OK.

Then you claim it would work better in character mode. People with lot more experience come, and say no, it wouldn't. Basically everyone who joined the discussion made similar type of engine in past.

Then you show game, which is completely different, which could really work well in character mode. You say 3D is 3D, so there is no difference. You also claim C64 only has character mode.

So yes, you may have meant it well. But most of what you said was just wrong, and you didn't even accept. So don't expect other to take you seriously.

Also your criticism may be meant well, and I take it as such, but some people don't. And I much rather lost you than let's say Fandal, who basically left AA after what you said about Stunt car racer.

Maybe it's just communication. Most of what you write sounds like you are mocking people. It's not Antic D ! Listen to 99% ! Maybe try to clearly say that you mean well, and if you mean something as a joke. It's not passed easily in written language.

I know especially us Slavic guys are very tough on this. We don't hint sarcasms at all. But we are also lot better at picking it up. But look at Americans. They will start the post with several sentences praising the authors, expressing how happy they are. Then they add criticism, and if they mean it, they will apologize once more. And if they don't mean it, they will openly express it was meant as a joke in next sentence. It seems silly to us, but it makes things much clearer.

I certainly mean everything I write in the same way. And I actually believe you do to. We just don't communicate it so well.

 

[VladR]

8 hours ago, R0ger said:

 His attempts to energize active coders are quite counterproductive though.

Well, I just discovered this thread and believe have something to say from a coder's standpoint. I am curious what emkay has to say about my current 3D experimenting attempts on Lynx (started 6 days ago, for the 30th Lynx B-day game dev compo), because:

 

- it's 8-bit Atari

- it's 6502(C) code

- it's 3D

- it's in his favourite resolution (well - close to it, 160x102 not 160x96)

 

I really believe it's 3D, because the engine takes a list of 3d polygons, applies camera position, transforms vertices and renders polygons, scanline by scanline. But, emkay might have a different opinion, so let's see if it fits his definition of 3D.

 

I'm narrowing down my options on which type of game to focus, as the deadline is about 5 weeks from now and while it's highly likely I'll miss it, I'll be damned if I don't try.

So, here's 4 test scenes (screenshots from emulator), meant as a test how it would look in that low resolution: HyperSpace cutscene, StunRunner track, StarRaiders space combat, StarWars HiPoly corridor

 

So, emkay - does that qualify as Atari 8-bit 3D for you ? Or, I just don't know what I'm talking about ?

 

[adam1977]

9 hours ago, emkay said:

Actually , I never claimed to be a coder.

No, you are an ATARI GOD, who we should all kneel down before your golden behind and worship, for surely, your word is the gospel ?

[Heaven/TQA]

7 hours ago, VladR said:

Well, I just discovered this thread and believe have something to say from a coder's standpoint. I am curious what emkay has to say about my current 3D experimenting attempts on Lynx (started 6 days ago, for the 30th Lynx B-day game dev compo), because:

 

- it's 8-bit Atari

- it's 6502(C) code

- it's 3D

- it's in his favourite resolution (well - close to it, 160x102 not 160x96)

 

I really believe it's 3D, because the engine takes a list of 3d polygons, applies camera position, transforms vertices and renders polygons, scanline by scanline. But, emkay might have a different opinion, so let's see if it fits his definition of 3D.

 

I'm narrowing down my options on which type of game to focus, as the deadline is about 5 weeks from now and while it's highly likely I'll miss it, I'll be damned if I don't try.

So, here's 4 test scenes (screenshots from emulator), meant as a test how it would look in that low resolution: HyperSpace cutscene, StunRunner track, StarRaiders space combat, StarWars HiPoly corridor

 

So, emkay - does that qualify as Atari 8-bit 3D for you ? Or, I just don't know what I'm talking about ?

 

 

VladR.... good to see you not vanished... I thought someone pissed you off...

 

looks great. I guess I should return to Lynx...  imho best 8bit hardware would be great as standalone home console.

screenshots rock!

 

 

[VladR]

7 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

 

VladR.... good to see you not vanished... I thought someone pissed you off...

 

looks great. I guess I should return to Lynx...  imho best 8bit hardware would be great as standalone home console.

screenshots rock!

 

 

Nah, every now and then, it boils up in the Jaguar section, but that's expected there

Over here, it's extremely civilized. Which is funny, as it's just a click away from the jag section ...

 

I'm finally using all that 6502 code I have been writing last two years

 

You're absolutely correct. Lynx should totally have been remade into a classic form factor and connected to TV. It's a real shame such power was largely unutilized.

 

The classic Atari games would have been awesome on Lynx , if remade. Suzy's a beast

[carlsson]

Would you say a desktop version of the Lynx could've been Atari's answer to the PC Engine? Then again it is a little hard to imagine, with the XEGS on the market, the ST/E line of home computers, the cancelled Panther etc. Perhaps if those ex-Amiga creators had approached Atari directly in 1986/87 though I don't know if then Tramiel run Atari would've been that interested of yet another desktop console, which for certain would've killed off the 7800 before it got a chance of a proper release.

[Heaven/TQA]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

Would you say a desktop version of the Lynx could've been Atari's answer to the PC Engine? Then again it is a little hard to imagine, with the XEGS on the market, the ST/E line of home computers, the cancelled Panther etc. Perhaps if those ex-Amiga creators had approached Atari directly in 1986/87 though I don't know if then Tramiel run Atari would've been that interested of yet another desktop console, which for certain would've killed off the 7800 before it got a chance of a proper release.

Yeah Epyx/Atari should have made a stand-alone...

 

havent touched PC engine but as 6502 it is on my list but too expensive to get one nowadays. But maybe with Konami’s PCengine mini

Edited July 4, 2019 by Heaven/TQA

[Heaven/TQA]

1 hour ago, VladR said:

Nah, every now and then, it boils up in the Jaguar section, but that's expected there

Over here, it's extremely civilized. Which is funny, as it's just a click away from the jag section ...

 

I'm finally using all that 6502 code I have been writing last two years

 

You're absolutely correct. Lynx should totally have been remade into a classic form factor and connected to TV. It's a real shame such power was largely unutilized.

 

The classic Atari games would have been awesome on Lynx , if remade. Suzy's a beast

 

Suzy plus it’s Maths plus 4096 colors plus 8k frame buffer plus 4mhz cpu plus 64k ram without issues etc... yeah

[carlsson]

Off-topic, but a barebones white NEC PC Engine directly from Japan doesn't have to be that expensive if you have patience and wait. Sellers on eBay like Yamatoku Classic tend to put those for sale daily and unlike other sellers, they test and grade everything so usually you know if it is fine or junk, not so much "untested" like with other shady sellers.

[VladR]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

Would you say a desktop version of the Lynx could've been Atari's answer to the PC Engine? Then again it is a little hard to imagine, with the XEGS on the market, the ST/E line of home computers, the cancelled Panther etc. Perhaps if those ex-Amiga creators had approached Atari directly in 1986/87 though I don't know if then Tramiel run Atari would've been that interested of yet another desktop console, which for certain would've killed off the 7800 before it got a chance of a proper release.

Honestly, without looking it up, I don't recall neither the specs of PC Engine, nor release data, so can't provide meaningful insight, as I grew up in AtariLandia behind Iron Curtain

I'm just approaching Lynx now from the perspective of 6502, and it's quite a performance shock, honestly. The 16 MHz Suzy is just an awesome pairing. 6502C also has some great new addressing modes and instructions and I feel like now I have to rewrite all my code from scratch

 

That being said, Lynx is awesome mostly if your primary objective is double-buffered 3D gfx. The DLI trickery of classic Atari doesn't [at this moment] seem like can be quite matched by Lynx's bruteforce. Something like Elektra Glide at 60 fps, I don't know if you can just brute-force that on Lynx. And you have only 3 scanlines worth of vblank time (though, at 4 MHz).

15 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Suzy plus it’s Maths plus 4096 colors plus 8k frame buffer plus 4mhz cpu plus 64k ram without issues etc... yeah

At first I was confused what can you fit there, as you loose ~16 KB just for the two framebuffers. But, then I realized you are guaranteed 64 KB (unlike most Ataris), plus additional 64-512 KB on cart. That is truly awesome. It feels like Lynx's potential been barely tapped. Just imagine Fractalus or Star Raiders using that power...

[Mclaneinc]

So is the Lynx a 3D / solid computing power or does it have sprites and internal fancy stuff (was going to ask re DLI's but that was answered)...I know not a lot about the Lynx to be honest but those screens look very impressive..

 

I presume from the brute force comment that it relies on the raw ability to throw stuff on screen based on computational power?

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mclaneinc
spelling...as always