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phaeron

Altirra 3.20 released

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2 hours ago, Roydea6 said:

there is a host device H1 H2 H3 H4 just list while in basic LIST "H1:BASIC.LST" and it will end up in the folder you chose.

 

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unfortunately, that does not solve the OP's problem. Listing basic files this way will not output the special ctrl characters.

 

Also, if you do this, you want to use H6 instead of H1 so it adds the correct carriage returns.

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1 hour ago, TheRaven81 said:

Ok, that's neat, and it kind of helped me. The font didn't quite register properly. I don't expect you to have an answer for that though(unless someone can find another font file for this). So I have another question. Is there a variant of LIST that only lists the program a screen-full at a time, and only continuing to scroll after pressing Return?

@TheRaven81,

 

Go here:

 

Download ATASCIIView.zip.

In Altirra, Go to System -> Configure System

On the left, under Peripherals, click Devices.

Then click Add...

Scroll down and select Host device (H:)

Enter a path to a location on your computer.

Click OK

Load a basic program on your computer.

Type this in BASIC:

LIST "H:PROGRAM.TXT" 

(Where PROGRAM.TXT is the name you want to output the file with.)

Open that program with ATASCIIView.zip

Save it or print it, etc...

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3 hours ago, toddtmw said:

@TheRaven81,

 

Go here:

 

Ahh very nice! That worked really well. Thank you for showing me, and thank you to NuY for preserving it here - the original site he linked to where it was from, it's dead now apparently.  

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On 10/26/2019 at 12:43 AM, phaeron said:

It's unlikely that Altirra will ever be able to run RetroArch shaders verbatim any time soon.

Likely asked or commented, but all emulation of retro systems are moving to plugins (cores) for RetroArch / libretro, with features such as shaders, bezels, save states, among others, with the same standard for many platforms / OS.

 

Atari800 is there (barely updated without all features), also I've seen kat5200 manually installed, but being that gratefully Altirra is the most updated and improved, it surprises that it is far from the "libretro" development.

 

https://www.retroarch.com/?page=cores

https://docs.libretro.com/guides/download-cores/

https://docs.libretro.com/library/atari800/

http://buildbot.libretro.com/nightly/linux/x86_64/latest/

 

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RetroArch is garbage, plain and simple. Absurdly complicated menus, arcane key combos, PITA to configure and set up. No thank you. I will stick to dedicated applications like Altirra and stand-alone Stella for my Atari emulation needs.

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I haven't used RetroArch and have no real opinion on it, but I tend to write my software in my own peculiar ways and my development processes aren't compatible with working with an external project. I'd rather spend the limited time I have on improving emulation rather than on integration with external code and teams, which honestly I do enough of at work.

 

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15 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

I will stick to dedicated applications like Altirra and stand-alone Stella for my Atari emulation needs.

They can be in both formats for several OS. Currently Stella is integrated with libretro:

https://docs.libretro.com/library/stella/

 

4 minutes ago, phaeron said:

I'd rather spend the limited time I have on improving emulation rather than on integration with external code and teams, which honestly I do enough of at work.

Thank you for all your work. Hopefully more people show-up with their know-how.

 

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9 hours ago, tane said:

They can be in both formats for several OS. Currently Stella is integrated with libretro:

https://docs.libretro.com/library/stella/

The codebase has to be designed a certain way, though, and if it isn't, it is a real chore to get into the 'libretro way' of doing things.  Even with Stella being in libretro, there are still some compromises that had to be made based on their way of doing things.  So I can certainly understand if a codebase isn't ready for it.

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Things like Mednafen and Retroarch are the least fun you can have on a day, with A LOT of work you can make Retroarch ever so slightly easier to use but I'd HATE to see that sort of thing happen to Altirra..

 

The use of shaders isn't really what Altirra is about, Altirra is performance and perfection as close to the real thing, its not looking to give you false cartoon graphics etc etc. Ok SOME shaders are quite nice and do add a retro feel but bar adding the composite lines I'd say Altirra is very close to 'how it was / is'

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33 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Things like Mednafen and Retroarch are the least fun you can have on a day, with A LOT of work you can make Retroarch ever so slightly easier to use but I'd HATE to see that sort of thing happen to Altirra..

 

The use of shaders isn't really what Altirra is about, Altirra is performance and perfection as close to the real thing, its not looking to give you false cartoon graphics etc etc. Ok SOME shaders are quite nice and do add a retro feel but bar adding the composite lines I'd say Altirra is very close to 'how it was / is'

Some people don't understand you can have both, the traditional emulator for your OS and the libretro plugin, like now with Nintendo, Sega, Neo Geo, and Atari 2600-5200-7800-Lynx, but the only (or one of the few) platform that is not there (in around 50 different systems), is the Atari 8-bit collection, working with all the libretro features.

 

Here is a video https://youtu.be/NoMbGFeCeMA?t=44 performing RetroPie / Recalbox as the frontend with RetroArch behind.

 

With such video I see a lot of fun having many retro-systems working together on the same hand, and I'm quite disagree with the phrase "Things like Mednafen and Retroarch are the least fun you can have on a day".

 

Just search RetroPie in YouTube.

 

48 minutes ago, stephena said:

The codebase has to be designed a certain way, though, and if it isn't, it is a real chore to get into the 'libretro way' of doing things.  Even with Stella being in libretro, there are still some compromises that had to be made based on their way of doing things.  So I can certainly understand if a codebase isn't ready for it.

I have no doubt that a development is required, according to some guidelines. But it catches the attention that the Atari 8-bit is the only big system that is not being developed there. Even the C64 / Coleco are there.

 

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29 minutes ago, tane said:

But it catches the attention that the Atari 8-bit is the only big system that is not being developed there.

Then why don’t you or someone else who thinks RetroArch is great go port Atari800 to it? That’s a freely available and open-source emulator. And since you mentioned RetroPie, Atari800 has been part of that package for years now.

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2 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

And since you mentioned RetroPie, Atari800 has been part of that package for years now.

It's basically the linux version, including its "menu", that doesn't interact with RetroArch.

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Retroarch and Mednafen are simply not fun to use unless you put a lot of effort in to it, out of the box they are a nightmare..Its simply the case, I don't want to have to spend a lot of time trying to learn how to get the thing going. Its an emulator, not 3DS Max...

 

I'm aware of retropie but even though I do have an old Raspberry pi sat here I've never had the want use it because a. its old and under powered and b. ALtirra does what I want and loads more and I have real old hardware for most of the machines I want emulated ie it about space in the room...

 

I've used Arch for PSX stuff and its ok ONCE you get all the stuff in the right place, got the best core etc etc etc..

Edited by Mclaneinc

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2 minutes ago, tane said:

It's basically the linux version, including its "menu", that doesn't interact with RetroArch.

I know exactly what it is - I’ve used RetroPie for years. But since RetroArch is so great, I’m sure someone will volunteer to convert the Atari800 codebase to work with it, right?

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6 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

I know exactly what it is - I’ve used RetroPie for years. But since RetroArch is so great, I’m sure someone will volunteer to convert the Atari800 codebase to work with it, right?

In my last post I was referring to atari800, not RetroPie. The atari800 emulator requires the file atari800.cfg, that doesn't interact with RetroArch. Also there is no shaders, bezels, and so on, and that is one of the reasons it's deprecated by the "RetroPie image builders". A second reason why the 8-bit collection is deprecated, is because there isn't a No-Intro version updated, with all media (videos and pictures), so it's very difficult to start.

Luckily it  has been improved, but not in the versions of some months ago.

 

Also could be a topic here in AtariAge for introduce RetroPie, it's features, and to build an Atari image, among the AA users.

 

6 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Retroarch and Mednafen are simply not fun to use unless you put a lot of effort in to it, out of the box they are a nightmare..

I agree, it's a nightmare in the beginning, but once everything is ready, it's easier to have all retro-systems working with 1 click, instead of individual emulators.

 

 

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I prefer to use the gamebases, dedicated emulators as you know them in a package where you just select the system and you get a nice preview, pdf's etc

 

I think we would all love a true all in one but at the moment I think individual emu's is the way to go until something not intimidating comes along, for me the gamebases are the nearest to that but are not so friendly when it comes to adding games yourself.

 

As long as we can play the games or use the utilities I'm a happy bunny..

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The thing that worries me in these cores that are used all have to fit in to a universal front end that runs the said cores, with so many techniques of emulation I do wonder if some features have to be trimmed or limited to suit the engine.

 

That said Altirra in its current form will not be emulating these features and that's ok with me and I'd say a majority of users..

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I don't get the hate for Retroarch myself. The interface is laid out the way it is because it's optimized for a controller-only input system, thus patterned after the PS3/PS4. It probably took me half an hour to get going the first time I used it, which isn't unusual for an emulator. Most of the complexity comes from the fact it's 100+ emulators and their different data behaviors, not the app itself. The hyperbole here is a bit carried away. Since Retroarch can't depend on a mouse (as it runs in environments like handhelds that dont have them), it doesn't have drop downs and widgets like Altirra et al, but the functionality concepts are still there, along with a data approach to describe it without interfering with a native interface, so you can have it both ways.

 

I admire it's purpose and idea. They are trying to present a consistent set of behaviors across hundreds of emulators, and take some of the heavy lifting of optimizing video/audio and screen presentation for different platforms away from the emulation authors, something that is heavily duplicated across the different emulation programs. The API attempts to be simple and direct, mostly just asking the "cores" (which are often the entire emulator with a few wrapper calls) to exchange state for video/audio/input conditions on a per frame basis...which they do already if they work at all. Retroarch requires almost nothing in structure or approach from the emulator other than this, although it's a positive and encouraged to be platform agnostic (which makes sense as RetroArch is taking all the platform work) so you can run just the pure emulation logic and be portable.

 

Anyway, I don't think there's need to bag on something because it isn't your subjective cup of tea. I for one would love to have Altirra expressed as a core, mostly for the portability, as then I could have it on for instance on my GPD XD+, a fantastic portable emulation machine. The other main reason is it's depressing that so many people use Retroarch now for Atari emulation and have to live with MESS or old Atari800 code to achieve it - they have no idea what they are missing and should be taught the greatness of proper Atari emulation =).

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4 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

The thing that worries me in these cores that are used all have to fit in to a universal front end that runs the said cores, with so many techniques of emulation I do wonder if some features have to be trimmed or limited to suit the engine.

 

 

It's basically the emulation program as a DLL instead of an EXE.

 

Look at Vice as an example (picked as an example that is roughly similar to Altirra). Has a standalone native version, uses the exact same logic for its Retroarch core, but with a different interface. It doesn't give anything up between them, all features are present.

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Perhaps Altirra "isn't the droid you are looking" ? 
Xformer 10 seemed to be more the sort of thing for people just wanting to fire up and play games.

 

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On 11/30/2019 at 7:59 AM, Mclaneinc said:

Things like Mednafen and Retroarch are the least fun you can have on a day, with A LOT of work you can make Retroarch ever so slightly easier to use but I'd HATE to see that sort of thing happen to Altirra..

 

The use of shaders isn't really what Altirra is about, Altirra is performance and perfection as close to the real thing, its not looking to give you false cartoon graphics etc etc. Ok SOME shaders are quite nice and do add a retro feel but bar adding the composite lines I'd say Altirra is very close to 'how it was / is'

mednafen=a commandline based emulator with perfect PCE emulation and support for other systems.

retroarch=a front end that uses other peoples emulators as cores.

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For me the best PCE emulator has been Otake and before that Magic Engine but I have to be fair and say I've not knowingly tried the Mednafen PCE emulation in  LONG while..

 

Loved Magic Engine and am a registered license owner but Otake has snagged the best mantle with the work on input lag.

 

Retroarch is what it is, its a Marmite emulator

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