Just got my first Vic-20, and I have questions

[DistantStar001]

I recently got what appears to be an early Vic-20 with a PET style keyboard, that has been modified with what turned out to be a reset button soldered to the motherboard, and bolted to the underside of the case.  As far as I can tell, the computer boots up normally, with a little over 3 1/2 k in available RAM, and all the keys seem to work as war as I can test.  However, the "Shift Lock" key does not stay down/lock when pressed.  Which leads to my first question: Is that normal?  I know on later keyboards it does, but this is an earlier model, so I'm so sure.
My second question is more cosmetic.  There is an odd dark discoloration near the front right foot (which is missing).  I've tried Windex, rubbing alcohol, and baking soda with limited success.  Any suggestions on how to remove it? Or do I just keep doing what I've been doing until it goes away?
My third question is about an appropriate power supply.  This is a two prong unit, so my jury-rigged C64 supply won't fit (even if it's safe and doesn't over-volt).  I did find a simple cord that does fit the prongs.  To test it, I had to cut off the outlet plug and strip the wires a bit, shoving one line into the barrel of a PSU from an Atari 1050, and wrapping the other end around the outside of that barrel.  As you might have guessed this actually works, but it's hardly a long term solution.  I don't want to permanently modify my Atari adaptor since I still have the drive that goes with it, unfortunately, all my searches for a proper replacement have turned up C64 style plugs, or been out of my price range.  I could just rig up a barrel adaptor to the cord I've got, but I'd really like a dedicated unit, so I was wondering if anyone knew of a good place to find one?
Fourth, I noticed while testing that my Vic got pretty warm.  I don't think it's unusual.  There's a pretty hefty heat-sinc on the board, and that's where the warmth is concentrated, but I was wondering if there was something more efficient, or should I be adding some fresh compound?
My last question is the fun one.  Now that I have a Vic-20, and I know that it works, what software and accessories should I be looking for?  Game recommendations, peripherals, etc.

Edited June 29, 2019 by DistantStar001

[JamesD]

For the discoloration...

A friend suggested Xylene for removing the smoke from my machines that had smoke damage from a fire.
Haven't tried it yet myself, so test in an area that isn't visible first.

The stuff in nail polish remover (Acetone) will certainly do the job, but it will also melt the plastic.
You can do a quick wipe, and rinse fast before it really starts melting (think model glue here), but think of it as a last resort.
I used carb cleaner, which contains acetone.  Just don't touch it for a few hours until whatever is left dries. 
That way if it does melt the plastic a little, you won't mess up the surface. 
Frankly, I would practice on something you don't care about first before trying it.
But, it was the only thing I've tried that did remove the smoke, and it did it almost instantaneously. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by JamesD

[carlsson]

The power connector should be a C1 or C2 if you're in the USA. That equals what you'd find on some earlier electric shaving machines and should be a good match.

 

It takes 9VAC but in principle you should be able to power it on 12VDC if you have a beefy enough power supply. I think 2A is the minimum, perhaps 2.5A. The rectifier might get a little warm, and the userport won't work properly with regards to modems etc using 9VAC.

[oracle_jedi]

For the PSU, I'd just add a barrel connector to your existing cable and create a short pig tail to drive the VIC from the Atari PSU.  I use a number of pigtails for systems I don't have the original PSU for, or I just don't want to have the extra hassle of dedicated units for each system.

 

For software and accessories, the basic VIC is very limited with just 5K of RAM.  Get a 32K switchable RAM card.  That should let you run most of the original games and applications, including those that were originally on ROM cartridge.  You will also need a way to load and save games and apps.  Look for an SD2IEC solution, something that lets you puts programs or whole disk images on an SD card, and then load them into the VIC via the disk interface.

 

Also check out the VIC20 Denial forum.  Lot's of great help there as well as access to many new games if that's your thing.  

 

 

[DistantStar001]

On 6/29/2019 at 6:29 AM, carlsson said:

The power connector should be a C1 or C2 if you're in the USA. That equals what you'd find on some earlier electric shaving machines and should be a good match.

 

It takes 9VAC but in principle you should be able to power it on 12VDC if you have a beefy enough power supply. I think 2A is the minimum, perhaps 2.5A. The rectifier might get a little warm, and the userport won't work properly with regards to modems etc using 9VAC.

On 6/29/2019 at 10:43 PM, oracle_jedi said:

For the PSU, I'd just add a barrel connector to your existing cable and create a short pig tail to drive the VIC from the Atari PSU.  I use a number of pigtails for systems I don't have the original PSU for, or I just don't want to have the extra hassle of dedicated units for each system.

I'm probably going to create a barrel adaptor for my Atari PSU regardless, but I still want a dedicated unit incase I want to work on both computers at the same time.  

On 6/29/2019 at 10:43 PM, oracle_jedi said:

Get a 32K switchable RAM card. 

I've been pricing them out and so far they're going between $50 and $60 on eBay.  That's nearly twice what I spent on the Vic-20.  I know I got a good deal, but still...  Any idea where I might find just the PCB, or the files to have one created?  Even if that isn't cheaper, it would still be a really fun project.

 

Also, I ordered a, old Commodore datasette off eBay and have managed to figure out how to convert .tap files to .wav.  However, the vast majority of programs I've found are in PAL format and my Vic-20 is NTSC.  I know that for most video game consoles this usually messes with the timing in games, but the game itself usually plays fine.  But all those systems have dedicated graphics hardware and use sprites.  The Vic-20 on the other hand, redefines text to create graphics, or so I'm told.  So I'm wondering if the PAL games will still work?

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by DistantStar001

[carlsson]

PAL/NTSC usually is not an issue for 90+% of the VIC-20 library. A few of the Imagic and Sirius cartridge games, plus possibly modern homebrews trace the raster beam so it becomes an issue.

 

As for memory expansions, here are a few links:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163235793637 (Texas/US, $30 + shipping $4.94 to your destination)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333236919993 (Georgia/US, $29 + shipping $5.31 to your destination)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153470031415 (Italy, 32 Euro + unknown shipping)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153498814110 (Italy, 30 Euro + shipping 6 Euro to the US)

 

This one is only 24K RAM and possibly not what you're looking for:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113696791272 (California/US, $25 + shipping $4.25 to your destination)

 

And yes, the Shift/Lock is mechanical so it should remain down when pushed.

[DistantStar001]

On 7/1/2019 at 11:09 PM, carlsson said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163235793637 (Texas/US, $30 + shipping $4.94 to your destination)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333236919993 (Georgia/US, $29 + shipping $5.31 to your destination)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153470031415 (Italy, 32 Euro + unknown shipping)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153498814110 (Italy, 30 Euro + shipping 6 Euro to the US)

 

This one is only 24K RAM and possibly not what you're looking for:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113696791272 (California/US, $25 + shipping $4.25 to your destination)

First of all, thanks for the leads.

 

On 7/1/2019 at 11:09 PM, carlsson said:

And yes, the Shift/Lock is mechanical so it should remain down when pushed.

I guess I'll have to fix that, but I'm a little terrified, as the last time I tried to remove a key from a Commodore keyboard the frame cracked.  I was lucky to fix it, but I never did get any of the keys off.

On 6/29/2019 at 10:43 PM, oracle_jedi said:

Look for an SD2IEC solution, something that lets you puts programs or whole disk images on an SD card, and then load them into the VIC via the disk interface.

I found an internal SD2IEC kit on eBay, and was wondering if it could be modified for external use?  Eventually I want to get at least one of my c64 boards working, so it would be nice if whatever SD card reader I get could be used for both.  And I really don't want to risk modifying my Vic and end up sending it to an early grave.  It's not even 40 yet.  That's way too young to die.

 

Also, when I do get an SD2IEC, is it possible to use it with a 1451 to write the disc images to an actual floppy?  And if so, what would be the best method?

Edited July 3, 2019 by DistantStar001

[carlsson]

I don't know how you intended to do it, but if you open the computer and remove the keyboard from the case, you have less risks of damaging anything. The keyboard connector is keyed so it only attaches in one way. There is a million tiny screws to detach the keyboard PCB from the actual keys but it is worth the work to take things apart.

 

I suppose the internal SD2IEC should work fine to attach externally, just line up the signals properly and find a power source, often from the tape or userport.

[DistantStar001]

6 hours ago, carlsson said:

I don't know how you intended to do it, but if you open the computer and remove the keyboard from the case, you have less risks of damaging anything. The keyboard connector is keyed so it only attaches in one way. There is a million tiny screws to detach the keyboard PCB from the actual keys but it is worth the work to take things apart.

I did remove the keyboard, but it still cracked before the key could be extracted.  I don't think the keys on that particular board are going anywhere.  The good news is that it still works.  As for my Vic-20, the PCB for the keyboard is a little different.  Unlike the one in my C64, there's no cutout for the shift lock, only two little solder points holding the wires in place.  So far, I haven't seen any other boards like it.  

6 hours ago, carlsson said:

I suppose the internal SD2IEC should work fine to attach externally, just line up the signals properly and find a power source, often from the tape or userport.

Is there a pinout guide that I can use?

[carlsson]

Hm yes, PET style keyboard. I only know Eurostile and Helvetica types, though I've been working with a bunch of real PET keyboards too.

 

Not sure about the internal SD2IEC, possibly the pins are labeled on the board or it comes with documentation. Is it that much cheaper than a ready-made external version, do you have the DIN connector etc to save some money?

[DistantStar001]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

Not sure about the internal SD2IEC, possibly the pins are labeled on the board or it comes with documentation. Is it that much cheaper than a ready-made external version, do you have the DIN connector etc to save some money?

I don't have a DIN connector at the moment, but there's a local electronics shop that carries them where I live.  Usually they're less than $5.  As for the SD2IEC, the kit I'm looking at is about $24 with shipping.  So far, I haven't found a fully assembled one for less than 45$.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by DistantStar001

[DistantStar001]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

Hm yes, PET style keyboard. I only know Eurostile and Helvetica types, though I've been working with a bunch of real PET keyboards too.

Good to know that they are infact different.  The key does seem to function, it just doesn't lock.  It's just like having third shift key, I suppose I can live with that.  

Edited July 3, 2019 by DistantStar001

[RobertB]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:47 PM, DistantStar001 said:

As for the SD2IEC, the kit I'm looking at is about $24 with shipping.  So far, I haven't found a fully assembled one for less than 45$.

 

 

The one that I have is from Australia, and I was able to get it for $42 US (and it's fully-assembled).  I had bought it on eBay some time ago, but I didn't see it there for months afterwards.  Well, I found it again!  It is at

http://melbourneconsolerepros.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=135

 

Truly,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group

http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm

Edited September 2, 2019 by RobertB

[motrucker]

On 7/2/2019 at 2:09 AM, carlsson said:

PAL/NTSC usually is not an issue for 90+% of the VIC-20 library. A few of the Imagic and Sirius cartridge games, plus possibly modern homebrews trace the raster beam so it becomes an issue.

As for memory expansions, here are a few links:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163235793637 (Texas/US, $30 + shipping $4.94 to your destination)

And yes, the Shift/Lock is mechanical so it should remain down when pushed.

That link is to aaascrapdogsunlimited  which is run by good people. I can highly recommend them - very good stuff that they make - and great to work with.

[scotty]

I know it is a little late, but if you are still upgrading, Get a FINAL EXPANSION III!!!!!  It is basically a swiss army knife for the Vic-20.   Memory upgrade, Disk drive emulator and more.  This things ROCKS and will be the only upgrade you will ever need.

 

 

Heather (SkyDiverGirl) is awesome.  First class.

 

Here is a demonstration of the cart in action.

 

 

[SkydivinGirl]

Hi Scotty!

 

Thanks so much for the nice words.  I'm so glad you are enjoying your Final Expansion III.

 

Heather